zuuro Quote:

If only those manufacturing and retail partners would feel safe taking the legal advice of people in this forum perhaps they'd be shipping sooner.

The only lawyer qualified to give legal advice that I am aware of on this forum is Ben Hermans and he is the most corrupt lawyer I have ever witnessed. The threatened RGL businesses partners need to seek their own legal advice and I do not blame them for being cautious.

Hammer Quote:

Hyperion Entertainment doesn't own the source code for ExecSG. Trevor Dickinson owns the ExecSG kernel of AmigaOS 4. Hyperion Entertainment is just a shell company with a contract with Amiga Inc.

Trevor bought some of the AmigaOS 4 software from Hyperion contracted developers. The developers likely sued Hyperion over lack of payment and Hyperion was nearly bankrupt until they mysteriously obtained the financing to sue Amiga Inc and Trevor took care of the developer problem as required by the 2009 settlement agreement by buying the ExecSG. Perhaps the Hyperion developers were suing Amiga Inc too?

2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF Quote:

20. AmigaOS Developers. Hyperion agrees and acknowledges that it is solely responsible for all payments and other obligations to third party developers of AmigaOS 4 pursuant to software development and other agreements between Hyperion and such developers. Hyperion agrees to indemnify, defend and hold harmless the Amiga Parties from any claims by third party developers of AmigaOS 4, including without limitation Hans-Joerg Frieden, Thomas Frieden and Andrea Valinotto, in connection with AmigaOS 4, including without limitations claims for payment or compensation, at Hyperion's sole cost and expense.

Ben's priority is lawsuits and not paying developers although Hyperion may not have changed since Ben was removed from his leadership role. Trevor was likely reluctant to loan Hyperion cash after his embezzlement of A-Eon Belgium so he gained ownership of ExecSG instead like was the case for Warp3D when mysterious financing bailed Hyperion out of bankruptcy again. According to Amiga documents and a contract between Hyperion and Trevor, Trevor is payed 10 Euros per copy of AmigaOS 4 sold.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1AZV5dQtPwFsU-BHD2gpye98weKaO2nmF/edit
https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/hyperion-entertainment-rtd-gray-eminence

There is also the newer 2019 contract between Trevor and Hyperion where Trevor gains joint ownership of AmigaOS 4. If there is any question who the mysterious financier, partial owner of AmigaOS 4 and "Business Angel" behind the lawsuits is, these documents would certainly clarify that if true and they look legit.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1Igs9qEVhsHMYNovq5PstWl-Vz1xID36l/edit Quote:

WHEREAS RTD is a New Zealand based Business Angel with specific interest in supporting the continuing development of "Classic Amiga" and "Next Generation Amiga" computer hardware and the Amiga operating system collectively known as the "AmigaOS" in all of it current forms; WHEREAS the current legal actions against HYPERION which inter alia aim to void the 2009 Settlement Agreement are of great concern to the continuity of AmigaOS 4.x development;

Note the specific interest in "Classic Amiga" and for '"AmigaOS" in all of it current forms' in the latest contract. Despite sabotaging the 68k Amiga and 68k AmigaOS for a decade, Trevor supports the ever expanding interpretation of the 2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF beyond PPC AmigaOS for AmigaNOne. The 2009 settlement agreement gain of PPC AmigaOS 4 for AmigaNOne was not enough but then it was an abject failure and new Amiga IP is required again. AmigaOS 4 failed to meet "post-release requirements".

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1AZV5dQtPwFsU-BHD2gpye98weKaO2nmF/edit Quote:

To be implemented post-release (at least two features mandatory): o Symmetric Multi-processing (SMP); support for multiple CPU's. o Multithreading: Tasks can consist of multiple threads of execution o Isolated address spaces o Pluggable Schedulers

Perhaps Trevor does not love his PPC as much as he says anymore and wants to switch to an ISA where these features can be enabled without breaking compatibility?

BigD Quote:

Ironically considering Amigakit don't stock Hyperion products anymore, the only real implication of the delay of THEA1200 is seemingly that it will help sales of the A1200NG. On the plus side it may mean that the chance of Worms DC 1.5 being bundled with THEA1200 has gone up!

AmigaKit is a curious member of the Hyperion A-EonKit syndicate as they try to play it safe by not selling Hyperion products and using a combination of the AROS and the Enhancer software instead of AmigaOS but "AmigaKit", "AmigaStore" and "Amiga Technologies" may be trademark violations of "Amiga", especially as used by computers like the A600GS. Maybe each shell business of the Trevor led criminal syndicate attacks different areas of the Amiga IP making it more difficult to respond to all. So far, it looks like AmigaKit's Amiga IP encroachments have been ignored. AmigaKit shenanigans stopped the development of an up to date WebKit based Amiga browser showing how much they respect IP and developers. So few Amiga developers remain and Trevor is allowing more to leave.

https://ko-fi.com/post/I-stop-working-on-a-new-webkit-based-browser-for-A-A0A51BDKFS

The tighter the corrupt Hyperion A-EonKit syndicate squeezes their fist, the more they lose their grip on Amiga Neverland. Boycott!

Last edited by matthey on 09-Apr-2025 at 01:03 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 08-Apr-2025 at 07:57 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 08-Apr-2025 at 07:40 PM.

@Gws The difference would be the inclusion of Workbench. The 2009 settlement agreement limited what could be done with the classic OS by the owner and licensees. The settlement agreement forbids the use of the classic OS as the desktop for a computer. Amiga Inc's main income streams at the time was from porting Amiga games to run on mobile phones using an emulation wrapper and licensing the Amiga name to badge third party gear. Any new "Amiga" computers would not be coming from them and would be using OS4 owned by Hyperion.

So the A500 mini is fine booting to a games carousel but a maxi with access to workbench may result in legal action.

Cloanto and Hyperion have been competing with each other in the classic OS space with claims and counter claims about who owns what and what they are allowed to do with it. The Apollo guys used to bundle Cloanto sourced AmigaOS licenses with their Vampires but the legal situation was part of the reason they switched to the AROS based Apollo OS. It's probably why Amigakit aren't using AmigaOS either on the A600GS and A1200NG.

RGL have an existing relationship with Cloanto and there is an expectation that the Amiga maxi will have a real AmigaOS experience. When they couldn't get the original ROM for the ZX Spectrum recreation they did use a reimplementation but I suspect many people buying The Spectrum don't really notice the subtle differences if they switch it to the BASIC. If RGL can't use the original Amiga OS for the maxi they would have to market it as something new rather than an exact recreation.

@zuuro

Quote:

Guessing, manufacturers and retailers might have received legal letters from Hyperion, saying "if you infringe our trademark in your factory or store, we will sue you".

Most likely not from Hyperion, but from someone else with "good contacts in the industry", and who has an interest in stopping, or at least delaying RGL.

Who could that be, hm?

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@IanP

Quote:

The settlement agreement forbids the use of the classic OS as the desktop for a computer.

???

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

This "cease & desist" shows that who is steering Hyperion now isn't that much different from Ben. It remains The Evil Company in the post Amiga land.

The reason for this action is probably reducing the incomes for Cloanto / Amiga Corporation and prolonging the legal battle, trying to starve Michele and reach another agreement.

In the meanwhile they can still charge money by selling their Amiga OS 3.2+.

Maybe Michele should do the same thing and ask the judge to stop Hyperion by selling their illegal product, until the lawsuit ends.
This might force Hyperion reaching an agreement ASAP, or die.

@cdimauro

Escalation would seem to be inevitable except that the RGL public statement may have been an attempt to draw Hyperion's new management team to clarify their position and force their hand to drop the cease and desist. Hopefully, the disentanglement of legal threats is progressing!

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IanP Quote:

The settlement agreement forbids the use of the classic OS as the desktop for a computer.

kolla Quote:

???

I covered this already. The 2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF "settlement agreement" restrictions on the "Amiga Parties" comes from Grant 1(b) for both commercializing the AmigaOS and exposing the UI. The grant starts with "Without prejudice to any existing License Agreements" which means the Cloanto license is exempt and Cloanto can continue to do everything they were already doing which includes commercializing the AmigaOS and exposing the UI as some classic/retro software requires this. Furthermore, the restrictions are just on the "Amiga Parties" which is capitalized meaning this is defined in the definitions as l ""Party" means Hyperion, the Amiga Parties collectively, Amiga, Itec, or Amino'. Neither Cloanto or Amiga Corporation are the "Amiga Parties" as they remain separate businesses. It could be argued that the "exclusive nature of the license granted to Hyperion for the Software" (Software is AmigaOS 3.1 only from definition n) that the meaning was to imply that only Hyperion was given an exclusive right to "use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market the Software" (AmigaOS 3.1 only) but Cloanto was already doing all these through their license which was exempted. The same is true for the exclusive right to use "AmigaOS" which Cloanto was already using and is grandfathered in in the settlement agreement. Two businesses can not have exclusive rights and precedent should be given to the preexisting licenses so that the 2009 settlement agreement does not violate existing licenses and the purpose of clauses like "Without prejudice to any existing License Agreements" is to avoid violating existing licenses in all cases.

cdimauro Quote:

This "cease & desist" shows that who is steering Hyperion now isn't that much different from Ben. It remains The Evil Company in the post Amiga land. The reason for this action is probably reducing the incomes for Cloanto / Amiga Corporation and prolonging the legal battle, trying to starve Michele and reach another agreement.

Trevor (and Trevor controlled entities) likely co-own AmigaOS 4 and may own more of it than Hyperion at this point. Trevor is likely sublicensed the same rights as Hyperion obtained in the 2009 settlement agreement, perhaps without signing Exhibit 3 in violation of the agreement. Hyperion is indebted to Trevor (or his entities) and Trevor could likely force Hyperion into bankruptcy. Hyperion would likely be bankrupt without Trevor and Trevor has likely saved Hyperion from bankruptcy at least twice. Does anyone doubt that Hyperion is a litigating shell business proxy for Trevor?

cdimauro Quote:

In the meanwhile they can still charge money by selling their Amiga OS 3.2+. Maybe Michele should do the same thing and ask the judge to stop Hyperion by selling their illegal product, until the lawsuit ends. This might force Hyperion reaching an agreement ASAP, or die.

Cloanto tried to get an injunction to stop Hyperion from selling certain products but it was denied.

@matthey: damit! Then Michele could only resist until there's a verdict.

@matthey

Quote:

Trevor bought some of the AmigaOS 4 software from Hyperion contracted developers. The developers likely sued Hyperion over lack of payment and Hyperion was nearly bankrupt until they mysteriously obtained the financing to sue Amiga Inc and Trevor took care of the developer problem as required by the 2009 settlement agreement by buying the ExecSG. Perhaps the Hyperion developers were suing Amiga Inc too?

I'm already aware of this story.

Quote:

There is also the newer 2019 contract between Trevor and Hyperion where Trevor gains joint ownership of AmigaOS 4. If there is any question who the mysterious financier, partial owner of AmigaOS 4 and "Business Angel" behind the lawsuits is, these documents would certainly clarify that if true and they look legit. Perhaps the Hyperion developers were suing Amiga Inc too?

For 2019-03-04
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1AZV5dQtPwFsU-BHD2gpye98weKaO2nmF/edit
Focus on the following

3.03, The copyright and ownership to any and all future changes to the SOFTWARE including "EXEC SG" will remain the property of RTD.

3.08 Ownership. RTD shall retain all intellectual property rights in and to the SOFTWARE
including "EXSEC SG" unless and until HYPERION makes prepayment in full pursuant to article 3.07 ii) at which time the ownership rights shall pass to HYPERION.

I'm aware of this story.

For https://docs.google.com/file/d/1Igs9qEVhsHMYNovq5PstWl-Vz1xID36l/edit
I wasn't tracking the 2019-08-19 update.


Quote:

Note the specific interest in "Classic Amiga" and for '"AmigaOS" in all of it current forms' in the latest contract. Despite sabotaging the 68k Amiga and 68k AmigaOS for a decade, Trevor supports the ever expanding interpretation of the 2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF beyond PPC AmigaOS for AmigaNOne. The 2009 settlement agreement gain of PPC AmigaOS 4 for AmigaNOne was not enough but then it was an abject failure, and new Amiga IP is required again. AmigaOS 4 failed to meet "post-release requirements".

The original Software Development & License Agreement's scope (2.01) has the PowerPC line of CPUs as used in other BlizzardPPC, Cyberstorm PPC, and AmigaOne hardware.

There was a scope change from the original Software Development & License Agreement.

Cloanto has an active 68K emulation scope, which is older than the "Settlement Agreement of 2009".

The lesson: don't let a non-technical marketing person into a leadership role with a tech company i.e, Amiga Inc.'s Bill McEwen is useless.
.

Last edited by Hammer on 10-Apr-2025 at 07:40 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Apr-2025 at 07:37 AM.

_________________
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@matthey

Quote:

Trevor (and Trevor controlled entities) likely co-own AmigaOS 4 and may own more of it than Hyperion at this point. Trevor is likely sublicensed the same rights as Hyperion obtained in the 2009 settlement agreement, perhaps without signing Exhibit 3 in violation of the agreement. Hyperion is indebted to Trevor (or his entities) and Trevor could likely force Hyperion into bankruptcy. Hyperion would likely be bankrupt without Trevor and Trevor has likely saved Hyperion from bankruptcy at least twice. Does anyone doubt that Hyperion is a litigating shell business proxy for Trevor?

Yes, I doubt that "Hyperion is a litigating shell business proxy for Trevor." You don't get to use a business as a "litigating proxy" when you're a minority shareholder. IIRC, at the last AmiWest, Trevor said he owned a fraction of a share (or something like that).

I also know that he's tried to bring Ben Hermans and Michelle Battilana together to talk it out and settle the dispute a few times. The legal battle is bad for business, and bad for AmigaOS.

If Trevor co-owned AmigaOS 4, then I'm absolutely certain that he'd be funding further development instead of wasting money on legal fights. His primary interest is in creating a modern Amiga. That's why he founded A-EON Technology, and spent huge amounts of money developing AmigaOne hardware, plus software to run on it.

The whole "Trevor is the evil mastermind" theory is just weird.

Hans

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@Hans

Any investment in Hyperion (including a copy of OS3.2 - guilty) perpetuates this nonsense IMHO. OS4.x and the AmigaOne project likely couldn't survive the bankruptcy of Hyperion but with Cloanto/Amiga Corp free of this nonsense people would be free to make money and cool projects based on the 68k legacy and that's really all we have!

Last edited by BigD on 10-Apr-2025 at 08:17 AM.

_________________
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@BigD

>Escalation would seem to be inevitable except that the RGL public statement may have been an >attempt to draw Hyperion's new management team to clarify their position and force their hand to >drop the cease and desist. Hopefully, the disentanglement of legal threats is progressing!

It is not Hyperion escalating. It is the other side escalating. Hyperion clearly said (and I got this confirmed in a private talk with the new owner of Hyperion) that they would give a licence, but "never were contacted regarding a licence".

Seek your evil people in a different company

And instead of contacting someone to negotiate a licence do public blames ? How can this be the "good side" ?

Yes, maybe it is all a misunderstanding (I doubt it) but if it is - did they contact Hyperion NOW ?

Hans Quote:

Yes, I doubt that "Hyperion is a litigating shell business proxy for Trevor." You don't get to use a business as a "litigating proxy" when you're a minority shareholder. IIRC, at the last AmiWest, Trevor said he owned a fraction of a share (or something like that).

Trevor is the financial lifeline to a nearly insolvent Hyperion who is indebted to him so he has huge financial leverage. Hyperion is unlikely to be able to obtain loans from anyone else considering their financial position, broken business model, lawsuits and contract obligations. Hyperion likely has contractual obligations to Trevor and his entities which limits their freedom to act. Technically, Trevor is a minority shareholder of Hyperion and does not hold any positions of power at Hyperion but I consider him to have de facto control of Hyperion. The only other real option they may have would be to negotiate with Michele instead but Trevor may not like that. Trevor may have more to offer in the short term but longer term Michele has more to offer with the possibility of removing the lawsuits, providing needed Amiga IP and growing the 68k Amiga market.

If the nullification of Ben's Hyperion stock is true, Trevor would own a much higher percentage of Hyperion now. I would not be surprised if he acquires more shares from other shareholders wanting to sell their Hyperion shares. It is not like Hyperion is a good investment as it is de facto controlled and kept alive by Trevor to maintain his sub licenses and contracts, the most important being obtained through litigation and kept alive through litigation, thus a "litigating proxy".

Hans Quote:

I also know that he's tried to bring Ben Hermans and Michelle Battilana together to talk it out and settle the dispute a few times. The legal battle is bad for business, and bad for AmigaOS. If Trevor co-owned AmigaOS 4, then I'm absolutely certain that he'd be funding further development instead of wasting money on legal fights. His primary interest is in creating a modern Amiga. That's why he founded A-EON Technology, and spent huge amounts of money developing AmigaOne hardware, plus software to run on it. The whole "Trevor is the evil mastermind" theory is just weird.

Trevor is the mastermind and no angel investor but I will not call him an evil mastermind. I believe Trevor could stop all the lawsuits and is the person that should be negotiated with instead of Timothy at Hyperion.

MagicSN Quote:

It is not Hyperion escalating. It is the other side escalating. Hyperion clearly said (and I got this confirmed in a private talk with the new owner of Hyperion) that they would give a licence, but "never were contacted regarding a licence".

Why is a license from Hyperion needed for the Commodore 68k AmigaOS and Kickstarts that Hyperion did not develop and does not own?

@Hans

Quote:

IIRC, at the last AmiWest, Trevor said he owned a fraction of a share (or something like that).

His comment about Hyperion, was before Ben Hermans had all of his shares nullified by the Brussels Commercial Court, so that is irrelevant now. Until informed of any further change, Trevor is a registered shareholder along with the others we have listed many times.

The "new" information was about his small share in Amigakit:
timestamped around 18:30

Quote:

If Trevor co-owned AmigaOS 4, then I'm absolutely certain that he'd be funding further development instead of wasting money on legal fights.

You might wish to read this and all the links to documents therein:
Trevor Dickinson has already acquired co-ownership of AmigaOS 4 in 2019

#6

Last edited by number6 on 10-Apr-2025 at 08:25 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 10-Apr-2025 at 07:28 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 10-Apr-2025 at 07:21 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 10-Apr-2025 at 06:54 PM.

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@BigD/MagicSN

Unless I read you both wrong, you seem to be referring to a cease & desist that applied to THE A500.

The only connection I posted about in this regard was that the same person who signed that cease & desist is currently director/administrator of Hyperion.

I have no knowledge of a "current" cease & desist concerning THE A1200 existing, so please do not assume that.

#6

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@matthey

Quote:

Trevor is the financial lifeline to a nearly insolvent Hyperion who is indebted to him so he has huge financial leverage...

Nope. There is zero evidence that he has control of Hyperion, and therefore dictates what happens.

You really have no clue what's going on inside the company. Nor do I, although I probably know a bit more than you.

@Number6

Quote:

His comment about Hyperion, was before Ben Hermans had all of his shares nullified by the Brussels Commercial Court, so that is irrelevant now. Until informed of any further change, Trevor is a registered shareholder along with the others we have listed many times.

He's still a minority shareholder, unless something else has changed. Matthey is acting like Trevor effectively owns Hyperion and is calling the shots.

Quote:

You might wish to read this and all the links to documents therein: Trevor Dickinson has already acquired co-ownership of AmigaOS 4 in 2019

What do you make of this:
"However, Dickinson can only use his newly acquired rights if Hyperion ceases to exist or ends its business activities with regard to AmigaOS 4 - bankruptcy or liquidation are cited as examples. "

It sounds to me like he doesn't really co-own the OS yet, because he's not allowed to do anything with it unless Hyperion goes kaput. I know it says "joint ownership," but the terms make it more of an insurance policy. If Hyperion fails, then Trevor takes over control of the OS.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't fund further development of an OS with such terms.

Hans

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@MagicSN

Delusion! Why would the owner of the Amiga IP; Amiga Corp who through sister company Cloanto has a perpetual right to distrubute Workbench 3.1 and below as part of emulation packages etc need to license ANYTHING from Hyperion? There's nothing to discuss other than the whole IP squatting, developers working for free husk of company to get out of the way of exciting new products being released. If Hyperion was a 'real and reasonable' company maybe they would be able to negotiate bundling of OS3.2 with THEA1200. What's more likely to happen is more potential customers boycotting Hyperion's products. Hyperion should drop all claims to OS3.1, focus on AmigaOS4.x project/OS3.3 and leave emulation to the actual owner!

Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2025 at 07:24 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2025 at 06:48 AM.

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@Thread

Surely in the long run this behaviour will show Hyperion to be in breach of the 2009 agreement and they will lose everything?

Public image is important and the more they fight to control IP, Roms and historical code that they have NEVER owned only licensed, the more customers will reject them altogether whether they continue on in solvency or not! I can only imagine that this is the company reeling in a spiteful death throw?

Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2025 at 07:30 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2025 at 07:29 AM.

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@MagicSN

Quote:

MagicSN wrote: It is not Hyperion escalating. It is the other side escalating. Hyperion clearly said (and I got this confirmed in a private talk with the new owner of Hyperion) that they would give a licence, but "never were contacted regarding a licence".

License for what exactly? Kickstart 34.5 and 40.068 for use with WHDLoad (which essentially is all that the RGL products are about)? Hyperion don't hold any rights on those, and are in no position to grant any licenses for them. For OS 3.2? Hyperion does not have rights to distribute OS 3.2 for emulators, such as the RGL systems, as such rights were granted Cloanto like 3 decades ago. Even ThoR doesn't grasp how Hyperion is supposed to fit into this.

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@number6

Quote:

The future? Well since the delay was announced now you have additional factors like tariffs and how companies plan their future based on currently unknown effects. What if costs to the company rise and they already are working on a slim margin?

Yes, the global economic uncertainty in conjunction to the added risk of (unjust and unsubstantiated IMHO) legal threat from Hyperion could derail this project or delay it by months or years. Business acumen might dictate that to settle and appease Hyperion might be wise in the short term. I hope however that this is finally dealt with legally and that Hyperion lose on the basis of their obvious breach of the 2009 settlement in reference to (the admittedly good) OS3.2 release and initial claim of "all rights reserved" rather than "under licence".

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