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/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  UltimatePPC - year after
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PosterThread
Comi 
UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 10:52:31
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jul-2003
Posts: 621
From: Zlatibor, Serbia

It's been year since announcement, yet really little news and and info...
Are they quit or they work in silence?

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Trixie 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 10:54:58
#2 ]
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Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1804
From: Czech Republic

@Comi

Quite typical, don't you think?

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OlafS25 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 10:58:51
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5495
From: Unknown

@Comi

Who knows... but I would not bet that it will ever become reality

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Comi 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 11:10:02
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jul-2003
Posts: 621
From: Zlatibor, Serbia

@Trixie

Typical for Amiga, only that is not typical are guys behind the project, because they delivered in past, big project for them and big investment...

Silence is not good anyway

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wawa 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 12:02:20
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6162
From: Unknown

@Comi

they must have realized, that the board would not be an advantage to anyone. there are better 060 accels there easily available. and for the ppc side they would need some software support, either mos, warpos or os4.
- mos team are not oficcially interested in amiga hardware anymore, and it is rather reasonable, because why do you need an amiga to stick ppc board in it?
- warpos, there apparently have been some talks, but to be honest, this solution has sucked from the start, why to drag it along?
- os4 people usually demand money.. so go figure, again there afe better ppc machines there, and the cpu was incompatible.
all in all choosing ppc for the processor was a mistake itself. better the project was cancelled i guess.

Last edited by wawa on 22-May-2013 at 12:02 PM.

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Yssing 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 12:05:03
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@wawa

Choosing ppc was not a mistake.

As for the UltimatePPC, the only mistake was to select the wrong CPU.

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OlafS25 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 12:09:03
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5495
From: Unknown

@Yssing

They chose the processor because it would have had certain advantages. After realizing that they could not use it they have to redesign the whole board (when I understood the problems correctly) and that for such a little market (OS4 fans with A4000 that not have a PPC system already). I would simply drop the project but at least inform the people...

Last edited by OlafS25 on 22-May-2013 at 12:09 PM.

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Yssing 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 12:14:12
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

I know that there were some advantages to the cpu they chosed, unfortunatly there was a big disadvantage, which is really a shame.

I do hope that they solve those issues that there is to redesigning the board, its a really great idea.

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vox 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 12:44:15
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@wawa

That is one correct point of view.
Having Zorro card for A4000 (and A3000, A2000 presumably if in tower?)
is very little market. Even I do imagine they play on existing PPC Blizz users
since card is way more powerful then 603/604.

Software side is as mentioned, problem.

MorphOS team doesnt support Classics PPC since 2.0
AmigaOS team has some other PowerISA in mind for OS 4.2

Hence, while idea is good, there is no software side at all.

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OlafS25 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 12:52:03
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5495
From: Unknown

@vox

the only strange thing about "Amiga" is that projects fade away silently without any comment. If they had announced after one or two months that redesigning the board is too much and that they drop the project because of that, (almost) everybody would have understand that. But this announcing sensations and then disappearing without any comment is not a very good style (and i can remember a couple of hardware projects where this happened in the last two years alone including one guy who promised lots of hardware developments or another one who had "rewritten" AROS 68k and run it on Coldfire secret board). Sometimes it is getting silly...

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bennymee 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 14:16:52
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 519
From: Netherlands

@Comi

One of the authors told me that next week the team will come together and give us some news about the UltimatePPC.

Fingers crossed.

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Comi 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 14:44:08
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jul-2003
Posts: 621
From: Zlatibor, Serbia

@bennymee

So, project is alive? I hope that they make redesign and some progress about suport with Hyperion..

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 15:31:35
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11092
From: Norway

@vox

The PowerPC UAE JIT project might make powerpc chip not totally useless, at least you be able to run 680x0 software really fast, but it won't give you AmigaOS4.x support, nor will you be able to run WarpUP/PowerUP, maybe you can run Linux on it.

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bennymee 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 16:20:07
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 519
From: Netherlands

@NutsAboutAmiga

CouldŽnt Petunia run 68K software very fast ? The UltimatePPC is the same sort of card like the Cyberstorm- and BlizzardPPC so OS4 (Classic) sees the AGA-chipset.

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Akiko 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 16:33:02
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 769
From: UK

Any sort of update on this would be very welcome

Last edited by Akiko on 22-May-2013 at 04:33 PM.

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wawa 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 16:49:35
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6162
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
The PowerPC UAE JIT project might make powerpc chip not totally useless, at least you be able to run 680x0 software really fast, but it won't give you AmigaOS4.x support, nor will you be able to run WarpUP/PowerUP, maybe you can run Linux on it.

i wouldnt mind, i dont really need os4 nor warpos, but in this case i would prefer 68k emu (jit) on a fast x86.

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wawa 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 16:54:51
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6162
From: Unknown

@bennymee

Quote:
CouldŽnt Petunia run 68K software very fast ?


according to benchmarks i did few years ago 604 class ppc cpu can emulate 060 68k about clock by clock. so an 150mhz one gives three times faster 060/50. that in real life test. i guess it was ffmpeg or some demos. it is some time past and utility base is down, so i cant tell if im completely right.

Quote:
The UltimatePPC is the same sort of card like the Cyberstorm- and BlizzardPPC so OS4 (Classic) sees the AGA-chipset.

not, according to whats been posted. ppc side on this card seem not to have access to the legacy amiga chipset/periferia. a major showstopper if you ask me. reminds me of the dragon/sonnet card concept by elbox. cant personally see the reason to put such a card into amiga instead to use standalone ppc board.

Last edited by wawa on 22-May-2013 at 04:59 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 19:34:48
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11092
From: Norway

@bennymee

CouldŽnt Petunia run 68K software very fast ?

Yes but its close sourced and part AmigaOS4, it will require Hyperion to be interested, its questionable due to the type of CPU, P1013 or Power ISA e500v2 is a double precision CPU, according to Wikipedia

Quote:
Support for SPESFP (Single Precision Embedded Scalar Floating Point). This is a new floating point unit that is distinct from the classic FPU, the latter of which is lacking in e500v1 and e500v2. SPESFP uses the integer register file. It is not completely IEEE754 compliant.


Quote:
Q: What PowerPC CPU are you using?
A: The UltimatePPC uses the Freescale QoriQ P1013 e500v2 CPU.


I'm no expert on this but there some issues her, don't know the finer details, the CPU might work fine, or it might result in poor preperformance and lot missing instruction interrupts. If you ever used a Atom CPU you know its a slow crippied CPU, if you ever used Cyrix you know how bad it can be, to have cut down CPU. I don't know but there might be issues, whit this one.

Quote:
Q: Will the PowerPC CPU be supported in WarpUP / PowerUp under the Classic 3.x OS versions?
A: That would be awesome. It will be a very difficult task because for this to work as we would need to have a compatible kernel that runs on the UltimatePPC. The PowerUp / WarpUP kernel is closed source and not available to us and we would need to work around the slight differences in architecture. We would love to see this If you have voodoo coding skills, know how and want to put in serious effort please let us know. Developed


So basically its unlikely the PowerPC can be used for legacy PowerPC programs.

According to Wikipedia e500 is Power ISA v.2.03, so I guess your going to have the same issues as Sam440 and Sam460 whit running WarpEMU if you get AmigaOS4 support.

So what WAWA says is wrong the Power ISA is supported, but there might be issues whit FPU instructions.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-May-2013 at 07:44 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-May-2013 at 07:39 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 19:38:16
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11092
From: Norway

@wawa

Quote:
not, according to whats been posted. ppc side on this card seem not to have access to the legacy amiga chipset/periferia. a major showstopper if you ask me. reminds me of the dragon/sonnet card concept by elbox. cant personally see the reason to put such a card into amiga instead to use standalone ppc board.


I don't know about that according to the http://ultimateppc.nl/faq.php

the DDR memory can be remapped according to the FAQ, and also I think I see a large FPGA in between 68040 and PowerPC, so my guess that this is not written in stone.

In addition you have the MMU that can remap memory.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-May-2013 at 07:41 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: UltimatePPC - year after
Posted on 22-May-2013 19:40:20
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8993
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

FPU of e500v2 is not compatible with other FPUs used in Amiga(One) hardware (603/604, G3, G4, 440, PA6T). Maybe FPU could be (slooowly) emulated by integer unit and some vital applications recompiled for e500v2 for better performance, but that would big task.

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