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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
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digitaldisaster 
OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 21:18:50
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 584
From: Lincoln, England

Thom from OSNews has posted a rather damning OS4 editorial which is very critical of Hyperion. Just waiting for the flame fest...
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=14118

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Manu 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 21:37:31
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

@digitaldisaster

That was a lot of unneccesary text for only wanting to say :
"-why can't they port OS4 to Pegasos ?"

I guess he had bad with luck with his own "Amiga" at home so he had
to get his anger out on someone :hint :hint

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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Troels 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 21:56:29
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1992
From: Unknown

I somehow agree with the editorial.

Just can't decide whether Pegasos would be a good soloution with the history Genesi has. Guess any sane business person would just have to forget the past and look ahead if we are ever to go anywhere.

Pegasos is available hardware and it would let more users and developers use OS4 but hopefully it would be a short term soloution. IMHO the ultimate goal has to be a PS3 port and a portable device, maybe based on the ACK card.

Still we need hardware NOW, not in 6-12 months or whenever something will emerge.

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Agafaster 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:09:04
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 1413
From: West Midlands, England - sector ZZ9 plural Z alpha

@Manu

thanks for the review, dont think I'll bother

_________________
XH558 - the worlds last flying Vulcan.
ok, its actually XL426 in the picture but you know what I mean.

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digitaldisaster 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:12:46
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 584
From: Lincoln, England

@Troels

I don't think anyone disagrees with bringing OS4 to the Pegasos (least of all me as I have one) it is just the Amiga Inc. licensing issues and the money issues that are the problem. Amiga Inc. seems to be dead and whenever BBRV mention OS4 on the Pegasos now the design spec is open they expect some-one else to foot the bill off porting it and then producing the boards and currently there is no-one with the money.

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AmigaHeretic 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:12:52
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1697
From: Oregon

"That is not the only problem. Another problem is that going the x86 route means you suddenly have a lot more competition: Linux, BSD, Zeta/Haiku, and maybe even SkyOS and Syllable."


I just don't understand this thinking. Any OS is competition no matter what hardware it's on. I mean there is only ONE scenario with OSes right now and that is someone wanting to try an OS other than Windows. That is the ONLY customer out there. Do they try something cheap that runs on their current computer or do they buy expensive hardware? No one(very few at least) is going to pay hundreds of dollars to try out an OS. Even MAC OS.



" And last but not least, it would introduce the concept of piracy to Amiga OS4, depriving Hyperion of possible sales."


So?? With "custom" hardware, PegII, Aone, or whatever it doesn't matter, you have maybe 5000 people willing to spend the cash to use AmigaOS4?? Most of those are Amigans already or at least have a history with Amigas. Let's say you get $50 for each copy of AOS4 bundled. That's $250,000.00. Once the Amigans have there machines, regular PC users aren't going to switch to new hardware. I mean you need another monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. This all takes up more space and wifes complaining etc. etc. etc. Let's say you release AOS4 for x86. You could easily sell at least 10,000. I have no doubt that could EASILY be achieved at $50 a whack. Now you made $500,000. AND HERE COMES THE PIRATES!! Now you have 50,000 pirated copies out there. That's 60,000 Amiga OS users. Would you rather develope software for a user base of 60,000 or 5,000??


This article is just dumb. Moving OS4 to Peg hardware is going to do nothing. I mean we went away from custom hardware for a reason, but somehow everyone wants us to still be stuck with customer hardware?!? I just don't get it???

Sorry for the rant. I'm on pain pills and spelling. Wizdom teeth removed.

AmigaHeretic

_________________
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

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Legion 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:13:52
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Apr-2003
Posts: 820
From: Fargo, ND, USA

"Hello, I'm Thom Holwerda, and what I'm doing here is what we call on the Interent 'trolling.'"

This whole pegasos thing... well, this pretty much sums it up:

clicky

_________________
...wait... what?

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digitaldisaster 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:26:51
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 584
From: Lincoln, England

@all

anyone notice that in this and the Hyperion licensing the graphics drivers there is someone posting as Alan Redhouse claiming that Hyperion haven't been paying license fees of some sorts. Al,most certainly a troll unless I've missed something in my absence

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digitaldisaster 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:30:07
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 584
From: Lincoln, England

@digitaldisaster

Quote:
Our solicitor has told us that we can not comment on the deal with Hyperion due to legal proceedings, but i can say we tried and failed, due to this we now are leaving the Amiga scene.

Thank you for supporting us all for many years.

PS - The last orders we received last week will be sent out before our closure.

Alan Redhouse

Edited 2006-03-26 21:32


Editied to post updated comment

Last edited by digitaldisaster on 26-Mar-2006 at 10:38 PM.

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Thom_Holwerda 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:36:47
#10 ]
Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2005
Posts: 98
From: Warmenhuizen

@Legion

Since you seem to like Wikipedia so much...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

So, you were saying I was a troll? Seems to me you don't know what a troll is. Read up on terms before using them. An opinion you disagree with is not automatically a troll.

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Troels 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:40:08
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1992
From: Unknown

@digitaldisaster

Also in the playstation forums, where there is a thread about OS4 on PS3 there is a guy called Redhouse posting.

Guess it's the absense of the real Mr. Redhouse thats makes it interesting for persons to come up with these imitations or what its called.

We really need Amiga, Eyetech, Hyperion, ACK and Troika to step forward and tell us a little about what to expect from the future.

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digitaldisaster 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:41:02
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 584
From: Lincoln, England

@Thom_Holwerda

not so much trolling as posting a slightly one sided and (unintentionally) misleading article. Check out the official Hyperion statements re: Pegasos. They are not against porting but cannot due to licensing. As I have said before, I would love to run AmigaOS on my Peg but Amiga Inc. are stopping me!

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Anonymous 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:41:53
# ]

0
0

As usual it shows that he has little understanding of the way things really are.
I suppose you can't blame him and to be fair he has worded this piece very carefully and makes a reasonable case for someone outside of the community.

What surprises me is that he automatically assumes that there's no very good reason for things being the way they are.
If it really were so easy to fix things as it has been suggested several places, they most likely would be A-OK.

On a related note one thing has always had me somewhat vexed. It's a sort of catch 22 situation, but not quite:
People haven't been able to get their hands on new Amigas, because there's been too little interest in them. That's the one thing that never quite added up for me.

I suppose it's a question of economies of scale, but the way I see it, it takes someone to go all out and actually get something out there that offers value for money (value being the total solution and not necessarily the hardware by itself).

All I can say is that I'm glad I got an A1 while they were out there. I know many would like to get one and I hope the various solutions will be released soon enough.

-- update

Oh, I missed this one the first time 'round: "While this on the one hand means I might overlook important things due to not knowing the whole scene inside-out, it also means I have a fresh and open view to it all."

I always find it amusing when someone comes from the outside with a "fresh view" and assumes it hasn't been discussed to death already everywhere else ;)

A fresh view certainly would be refreshing. The same old rehashes, on the other hand, aren't.

Last edited by Trezzer on 26-Mar-2006 at 10:44 PM.

 
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broadblues 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:43:50
#14 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4427
From: Portsmouth England

@digitaldisaster

If you doubt the authenticity of someone and suspect them of being a troll, what is the point of quoting their trolling?

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

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digitaldisaster 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:44:08
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 584
From: Lincoln, England

@Troels

If they don't I may go and buy a PowerMac G5 instead of an A1/Trokia. I bet there are many people that will not wait much longer to buy an A1 without an official announcement. Due to the cost there are few people that can buy on straight off without saving and sooner or later people will get board of rumours and spend their saved money elsewhere, I know I will.

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alx 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:45:31
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1224
From: Midlands, UK

@digitaldisaster

It's a troll - Eyetech don't exactly do much communication nowadays

As for the article itself, I'm inclined to see it as pointing out the grim reality rather than trolling. The fate of OS4 currently seems to rest on two platforms, both of which appear to be way behind schedule ("Amy'05" anyone?). At least that's how outsiders would view it - not everyone can share blind faith.

You cannot really blame Hyperion or hardware vendors for the situation - given the limited resources available it's a miracle that anyone's using OS4 at all. The mistakes that truly mattered all happened over ten years ago now (I try to avoid thinking what would have happened to the Amiga if things hadn't happened that way - seeing something with so much potential destroyed is depressing beyond belief).

But if the Amiga is ever to progress as a platform, even into the niche "hobby OS" arena, the current problems need to be acknowledged. That's what the editorial seems to do, and frankly it's a lot less pessimistic than some of the threads I've seen on AW.net recently. Then we've got to look at possible solutions; yes, all the ones pointed out on OSNews seem inadequate in some way, but if no others can be found then one of them will have to do. All too many times, discussion in the community recently seems to have oscillated wildly between infinite optimism and manic depression, without really contributing anything constructive.

---edit---

Of course, that's not to say that the article's perfect - it certainly aint. But we cannot just dismiss some if it's arguments, at least without coming up with feasible alternatives.

Last edited by alx on 26-Mar-2006 at 10:46 PM.

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EntilZha 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:49:07
#17 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 27-Aug-2003
Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4

@digitaldisaster

Just for the record, although you probably guessed: Hyperion doesn't owe anything to anybody. Licenses for OS4 branding have always been paid (and will always be paid).

And for the record: The deal between Smith and Hyperion ONLY affects Smith and Hyperion, NO ONE ELSE. As such, there's no "license" to be paid to anybody...

Of course, spreading FUD in somebody elses names is always easy, and just shows in what sorry mental state some individuals are.

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

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Rogue 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:49:18
#18 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@Troels

Quote:
I somehow agree with the editorial.


What I find extremely stupid about the whole discussion is that no one seems to listen to what I have said over and over.

So maybe, if I shout someone will finally get it:

THE DECISION TO PORT TO PEGASOS OR NOT IS NOT HYPERION'S.

How many times do I need to frigging waste my time to say that?

Plainly, this is getting a tad bit annoying.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

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EntilZha 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:51:50
#19 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 27-Aug-2003
Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4

@alx

Quote:
Of course, that's not to say that the article's perfect - it certainly aint. But we cannot just dismiss some if it's arguments, at least without coming up with feasible alternatives.


Really, how often do we have to repeat that we can not act without a license from Amiga ?

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

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Anonymous 
Re: OSNews Amiga OS 4'Editorial'
Posted on 26-Mar-2006 22:52:14
# ]

0
0

@Rogue

I'm afraid the issue will keep popping up now and then. Especially when it's posted on "outside" sites every now and then.

Guess it's a good time to learn selective reading. B)

 
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