@Rogue

Quote:

Don't say Linux now. The market share for Linux on x86 is so insignificant that most companies don't even bother to port their software to Linux. Since I am a fan of Neverwinter Nights, I can tell you that the percentage of people playing the Linux version of NWN online is below 0.1%, and it isn't like the Linux game market is swamped with alternatives.

Linux X86 is doing fine in X86 servers i.e. beating !@#$ out of the old school unix server solutions.

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@Rogue

Quote:

Look at the situation of Yellow Tab and tell me why a company selling into the oh-so-profitable x86 market has filed fro Chapter 11?

Management issue i.e. refer to QNX, eComStation, SUN Solaris, SkyOS for counter examples. Any OS must fine a niche market.

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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Serpi

Quote:

Please, tell this to Apple as their x86 boxes aren't cheaper then their PPC boxes.

Try find a PPC based laptop (or build a comparable barebone solution) that can beat AU $799 Acer laptop (1.6Ghz AMD K8 Sempr0n, 40GB HD, 256MB 333DDR, SIS Mirage2 IGP, 15.4 inch gloss TFT 16:9 screen (price includes $100 OEM Windows XP Home).

Last edited by Hammer on 19-May-2006 at 02:36 PM.

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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Rogue

Quote:

Contrary to x86, PowerPC are being used in embedded applications

Contrary to that POV, refer to

http://www.i4u.com/article5485.html
http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2006/04/21/75795.aspx

for an example of Intel Pentium IV in an embedded usage i.e. a "Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player".

In http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3632423849.html
A Saxonia(vendor) outdoor WiFi router with X86 processor.

Don't forget Wintel BSOD stories in public places...

Last edited by Hammer on 19-May-2006 at 02:21 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 19-May-2006 at 02:15 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 19-May-2006 at 02:11 PM.

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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@AmiGame

Quote:

If they want AOS4 on ex-86, they can always use AROS.

What the heck has AROS (3.1) to do with AOS4 (4.0)? This logic is flawed.

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@AmiGame

You don't seem to understand all these 'x86 lovers'... I bet that if you gave them a similar PPC spec at the same amount they wouldn't nag...

And this 'they like to complain' without trying to grasp what's between the lines, makes it a rather offensive, as is over generalizing...
Quote:

"it ran only on that machine, not on mine, I'm not buying a new machine as mine is better anyway ! Do a port to MY ex-86 or I'm outta here..."

But they would run to buy an overpriced, underspecced machine... your logic is stumbling

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@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote: @Seehund Quote: Oh yes! And Linux. And AROS. And *BSD. And ... Oh, come on. The only thing that remotely threatens the position of Windows is Linux. AROS, BSD, you gotta be kidding.

What do you mean? Threaten the position of Windows? Does that have something to do with the "if we can't sell our product for Platform X we're protected from competition" idea? ;)

I was referring to customer benefit, product value. More options is better value than fewer options.

Quote:

Quote: You mean just like with PPC or any other CPU, then. Yes, the same problem exists with other CPU's, however, there aren't that many PowerPC boards and hence the selection of chipsets is limited.

Exactly. Are you saying that this is a good thing?

Quote:

Quote: Even if this were entirely true, then neither has AmigaOS. Any impact on the embedded market, that is. Contrary to x86, PowerPC are being used in embedded applications.

What, x86 is NOT being used in embedded applications??
Are you only referring to PDAs?

Quote:

We do have a PDA running AmigaOS to begin with (unfortunately I don't think I am allowed to show the video I recorded), and there are concrete plans (which I surely cannot comment on).

Can't say I'm personally particularly interested in AmigaOS on a PDA, but good for you, and good luck! I really do hope this concrete plan turns out better than all the previous ones. Even if AmigaOS is left for dead where I'm interested in using it, on computers, I'd love to see you getting some reward from all these years.

But are you sure you want to compete head on with Windows (PocketPC), Symbian, Linux et c? I've heard it's dangerous to run on popular platforms! ;)

Quote:

Quote: AHT had negotiated and were about to sign a licence deal for AOS4 on an STB when AInc did a U-turn on them, and before that AHT were asked by their advisors how much AInc would pay AHT for putting AmigaOS on their STB! You clearly totally underestimate the power of the Amiga name.

Dang! I'll find solace in that I'm in the same boat as PriceWaterhouseCooper and ABB's/Maxx's/AHT's advertising agency then. :)

But AInc and/or Hyperion still think that the name is NOT powerful enough to sell at least a few thousand copies of AmigaOS 4 to enthusiasts/nerds/people-who-actually-know-and-remember-the-name, who already own or would be willing to buy a PPC Mac, Pegasos or x86 machine?

Yet it's apparently believed to BE powerful enough to sell AmigaOS to the same people only if it comes bundled with underperforming overpriced obscure hardware without warranties on an isolated "Amiga" market.

Odd.

Quote:

Quote: After the "Two More Weeks" and "When It's Done" slogans, perhaps it's time to adopt "Four More Years" from American politics? ;) Spare me the cynical comments, I didn't specify any timeframe. Just wait and see. Or not, I don't care.

Come on. Even without specific timeframes, any such statement will be met with a healthy dose of skepticism, or cynicism if you will. There have been more unspecific RSNs and It's-in-the-pipelines and We're-looking-at-thats than there have been specific In-2Q-2002s or Two-more-weeks. (And I'm talking about anything Amiga related, I'm not trying to single out Hyperion.)

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Oh, bother.

@nzv58l

I agree with you.
C'mon Rogue. You won't be able to convince those ex-86 lovers.
They like to complain, and even if you did an ex-86 port of AOS4, they will say: "it ran only on that machine, not on mine, I'm not buying a new machine as mine is better anyway ! Do a port to MY ex-86 or I'm outta here..."

If they want AOS4 on ex-86, they can always use AROS. IfAROS is not god enough for them, they can "invest" (time, money, development) on AROS to make it looks like AOS4 as AROS is stil a project in development.

Jerry

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@nzv58l
Quote:

I think the PowerPC has a better range of devices than the x86 and by that I say more scaleable.

"Scalability" and "range of devices" is a rather bogus argument when nobody is there to produce that hardware for our tiny little market or when no license is granted for potential producers.

@afxgroup

You really love this actress. Rogue is minded to Solder the Hardware for Jessica Alba.

Maybe you can do a Port to Cell for Renee Zellweger.

:)

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retired

@Rogue

Rogue, I read these posts mostly for their entertainment value and enjoy your posts best of all. However, I do not think you are going to light a lightbulb that is burnt out by applying more voltage. I would much rather hear about the palm top OS 4 version and having you improve the current OS4 than wasting valuable time here.

Even my G4 seems fast enough for me. I don't want an intel chip in my Amiga unless it is on a bridge card. I think the PowerPC has a better range of devices than the x86 and by that I say more scaleable. The only way I see to beat Microsoft and Windows on an X86 box is to start running Windows applications natively. However, in doing so you have to load a bunch of Windows stuff to do it and probably suffer the same performance problems.

I am not optomistic about Mac's move. I think this is going to eventually hurt them, but it will take some time to really tell.

If there were a low end AmigaOne available for $200 bucks it would definitly take off. Even if it were up to $500. Any higher and the x86 fans will start screaming about how expensive it is.

By the way, I love surfing with the Amiga. It is my prefered surfing tool that I use unless there is something I need that AWeb doesn't yet support.

@Rogue

Quote:

There are no customers outside the grounp of Amiga-fanatics.

What makes you think that? Do you know howmay Amiga users there were during its reign with Commodore?

Its seems to me you need to do your homework mate.

I and thousands of others jumped ship to the PC market when Commodore went bust. I and a few others have returned in the last few years, waiting for the rise of a new machine. The one main reason why people are using windows is because there is nothing better.

Forgive me for saying this, but Why the hell are you doing this project if its not better that Windows??

Quote:

Name me a few good reasons why a MacOS or Windows user should use AmigaOS, regardless of the hardware platform? I'm sorry, but I am not arrogant enough to think that AmigaOS (or any clone, for the matter) could go against any mainstream OS.

What makes you think its not allready going against any mainstream OS? The only difference is there will be a massive brick wall stopping a potential userbase.

Quote:

It's an OS for Amiga hobbyists, and it will take a long time and a lot of work to get it to any other state. So, pray, how would you like to attract masses of new users outside the Amiga market?

Simple, make it available, highlight its advantages over other OS's, and make it for reasonably priced hardware.

Make it on fast harware so that maybe, just maybe we will get some games companies interested and get the ball rolling.

But I guess that never crossed your mind, with your flawed OS that is only for hobbyists.

Last edited by Wraith2021 on 18-May-2006 at 10:10 PM.

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

What about 5 years from now?

Quote:

What future is there in PPC in the high end?

Two possibilities:

1) The OS is not developed further commercially (not enough profits to justify efforts & investments)
2) No custom high-end PPC hardware is available (after PV/Troika is out, the market is saturated with ~3.000-4.000 users, not enough potential purchasers of new hardware, lack of developers)

Last edited by hatschi on 18-May-2006 at 10:01 PM.

@Rogue

Quote:

There are no customers outside the grounp of Amiga-fanatics. Name me a few good reasons why a MacOS or Windows user should use AmigaOS, regardless of the hardware platform?

This comment negates everything you said about Windows and X86! If there are no customers outside Amiga Fantics then you're saying "new" users (windows users) would by AmigaOS4 on X86 and then switch back to Windows to use IE?? At least it would equate to sales.


Also, if there are no customers outside of the Amiga Fanatics then how does it matter if the OS is on X86 or PPC. Just to charge Amiga Fantics 10 times as much for the motherboard??


EDIT:

I'd also like to note I have been using GAH!!! IE for 8 years and I still use AmigaOS and browse with it. Yes I still support (through donations) and hold out for a better browser on AmigaOS.

Last edited by AmigaHeretic on 18-May-2006 at 09:57 PM.

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@Rogue

Quote:

I don't think that a 2 GHz G5 is slow. If you want to join the Mhz race, I invite you to use Windows.

What about 5 years from now? Do you think there is going to be a G6, G7 etc??

What future is there in PPC in the high end?

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@Rogue

Quote:

The sad part is that you do not have a clue what you are talking about. How many examples of failed attempts on x86 exactly do you need? BeOS? Zeta? OS/2? Linux?

How many succesful attempts have there "ever" been on PPC? MacOS??

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@fatman2021

no

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@Rogue

Quote:

AmigaOS 4.0 needs the embedded market, because the desktop market does not yield enough turnover to be feasible.

Quote:

It certainly isn't for the money; if it where that, we wouldn't even have started it. To date, the development has swallowed a six-digit amount of Euros.

Just thinking of those circumstances (Hyperion is a commercial company, desktop market not viable because not enough turnover) I am wondering who is still investing in your business. The 6 digit amount of Euros can't be only for "charity" or for being "Amiga lovers"...
I mean, it's not only about idealism, someone must be willing to invest money without getting any adequate turnover from it.
It rather appears like a project in the open-source community to me, but as we know, it's not.
Strange that a company is doing this, and I would be even more surprised when there would be a commercial company interested in continuing development after OS4 final.

What will happen after OS4 final is released anyway since also Amiga Inc. does not seem to have any interest in this market?

@fatman2021

I wou;dnt support it

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If it is affordable as opposite to amigaone, then of course i would without even blinking.
The AmigaONE on the other hand was just out of reach for my wallet.