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PosterThread
wegster 
ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 21:03:15
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

As most of you know, the hardware demo didn't happen for today. We did an IRC session with Adam/ACK Controls in #amigaworld today instead. Thanks to Adam for the IRC session.

Here's the log:

Jun 10 14:38:38 ackcontrols22 what did you guys do to foody?
Jun 10 14:38:51 sundown lol
Jun 10 14:39:07 SLayeRDK tease a little bit to much
Jun 10 14:39:18 ackcontrols22 people take things too seriously
Jun 10 14:39:38 SLayeRDK you should know by now :)
Jun 10 14:39:47 Amiga_3k Probably asking the already answered question but here it is: Why exactly is the demo cancelled?
Jun 10 14:40:41 ackcontrols22 Technical problem with CPU module using 60x bus on the MicroA1.
Jun 10 14:40:57 Bernd ackcontrols: why didnt you demo on XE instead?
Jun 10 14:41:40 wegster ackcontrols: foody PMSed as usual and got offended at people joking with him. Were you on IRC more, you'd know about the 'foody binary PMS switch' of his.
Jun 10 14:41:56 ackcontrols22 Spent too much time working on the MicroA1 that I didn't leave enough time to properly prepare for the demo.
Jun 10 14:42:28 ackcontrols22 A bit obsessive compulsive that way.
Jun 10 14:42:38 Bernd ackcontrols: but is it working on the XE then?
Jun 10 14:43:04 wegster ackcontrols22: You continue to seriously hurt any belief people have in you, by waiting to the last minute to cancel these demos. Why didn't you at least give people notice, considering the fact there are people in many timezones? Even if you don't respond to this, I REALLY hope you'll consider this in the future.
Jun 10 14:43:24 Amiga_3k You reckon the technical problem encoutered can be adressed and solved (I know, all technical problems can be solved when there's a big bag of money sitting around, but I don't think such a bag exists at your office )?
Jun 10 14:43:32 ackcontrols22 Bernd: It doesn't lock up, but not getting the throughput that was expected.
Jun 10 14:44:33 T_Power ackcontrols22: Timing issues?
Jun 10 14:44:38 tarbos did you look at pegasos throughput numbers? :)
Jun 10 14:44:39 Outcast no show at AmiRevival then
Jun 10 14:44:48 ackcontrols22 wegster: Agreed, but the final result will speak for itself.
Jun 10 14:45:20 tarbos http://www.greyhound-data.com/gunnar/glibc/index.htm?page=benchmarks
Jun 10 14:45:28 tarbos does the 7448 perform better or worse?
Jun 10 14:45:33 wegster ackcontrols22: Do you have a picture, or will you release one, so people that are doubting can at least see something?
Jun 10 14:45:38 Outcast damage may well be terminal by then
Jun 10 14:46:16 ackcontrols22 I'm really not worried about the damage as worrying about it doesn't allow me to focus on what I need to do.
Jun 10 14:46:45 pete sex?
Jun 10 14:47:29 Rob I think you go the wrong channel pete
Jun 10 14:47:40 pete damn ;)
Jun 10 14:47:59 Outcast lol .. people are calling for a major show again but there's nothing to show !!!
Jun 10 14:48:19 wegster ackcontrols22: Do you have a picture, or will you release one, so people that are doubting can at least see something?
Jun 10 14:48:46 wegster ackcontrols22: so what throughput ARE you seeing then vs expected?
Jun 10 14:49:14 tarbos i think tundra already released numbers for STREAM
Jun 10 14:50:02 T_Power ackcontrols22: Timing issues, termination issues, any direction on the H/W issues?
Jun 10 14:50:34 Bernd ackcontrols22: couldn't you have just shown what you had, or work-in-progress stuff, e.g. a working (?) Powervixxen running Linux, the modules on the XE, instead of cancelling in the last minute?
Jun 10 14:50:47 sundown ackcontrols22: pics would be every bit as good as a demo
Jun 10 14:51:37 Bernd 1 1/2 years and not even a single photo of the powervixxen or a screenshot with running Linux...
Jun 10 14:51:39 tarbos 640MB/s or so for 7448 1.4ghz and 200mhz bus
Jun 10 14:52:00 ackcontrols22 As much as I LOATH pictures, I will release pictures of everything.
Jun 10 14:52:12 wegster ackcontrols22: when/where?
Jun 10 14:52:38 tarbos . o O (in due time :)
Jun 10 14:52:50 ackcontrols22 No later than Tuesday evening on amigaworld.net
Jun 10 14:52:55 miksuh I was earlier against it but I'm starting to think that OS4 should be ported to standard x86 PC too.
Jun 10 14:53:14 miksuh I have not lost any interest in OS4 but this hardware situation is too frustarting
Jun 10 14:53:29 miksuh it's great that ackl and others are atleast trying though
Jun 10 14:53:32 wegster ackcontrols22: does that include only the CPU card, os 'anything else'? If unable or unwilling to get into further details on the CPU card problems (feel free to), what is the status pof PV and/or the other board?
Jun 10 14:53:43 ackcontrols22 miksuh: I'm not opposed to an x86 port.
Jun 10 14:54:37 wegster all - please limit comments in main to questions and followups for ackcontrols for the duration of the ack irc session.
Jun 10 14:55:17 wegster (yes, I realize this should be in a different channel in the first place, but it isn't.)
Jun 10 14:55:30 Bernd ok, who's next to ask something?
Jun 10 14:55:42 pentrite Ack: in % what performance increase do you hope to get?
Jun 10 14:55:59 T_Power ackcontrols22: What problems have you isolated so far?
Jun 10 14:57:52 ackcontrols22 pentrite: looking for about a 2.0 x improvement over the 800MHz 750GX
Jun 10 14:58:54 ackcontrols22 T_Power: I haven't isolated any problems yet, but I'm confident in the termination and power levels.
Jun 10 14:59:37 tarbos ack: do you use the thermal diode to monitor cpu temp?
Jun 10 15:00:23 ackcontrols22 tarbos: there is circuitry to monitor temp and shut down if necessary, but it's presently disabled.
Jun 10 15:00:26 Bernd ackcontrols22: couldn't you have just shown what you had, like work-in-progress stuff, e.g. a working (?) Powervixxen running Linux, the CPU-module on the XE, instead of cancelling in the last minute?
Jun 10 15:01:00 ackcontrols22 bernd: I didn't have enough time to prepare as I was focused on finding the problem.
Jun 10 15:01:52 ackcontrols22 It's been a couple of sleepless nights
Jun 10 15:01:58 Rob have you decided on what graphics chip the Powervixxen LT will have
Jun 10 15:02:11 T_Power ackcontrols22: "I didn't have enough time to prepare as I was focused on finding the problem..." Tunnel vision, It does get intense hehe....
Jun 10 15:03:07 Bernd ackcontrols22: any status update on the powervixxen now that the CPU-connector issue is sorted out?
Jun 10 15:03:52 tarbos ack: how much ram will powervixxen tl support, are there 2 dimm sockets onboard?
Jun 10 15:04:31 ackcontrols22 Bernd: Barring any unforseen issues, I'm expecting to have the PV LT at the AmiRevival show.
Jun 10 15:04:35 wegster heh, 20 questions to 1 answer- ackcontrols22, why don't you give a general status on PowerVixxen, PowerVixxen standalone and the other board before we get into random specific Qs on those?
Jun 10 15:05:05 ackcontrols22 tarbos: 2Gb of total memory in 2 DDR2 DIMM slots.
Jun 10 15:05:52 Rob will the Radeon have its own ram i will it be shared
Jun 10 15:06:06 ackcontrols22 Rob: Mobility chip has it's own onboard memory.
Jun 10 15:06:20 ackcontrols22 Rob: Needed that for reduced board space
Jun 10 15:07:19 ackcontrols22 The PV carrier board is on hold until licensing is finalized, which happens to be sometime soon though.
Jun 10 15:08:37 Bernd ackcontrols: do you plan to release both PV and breakout box together, or would you also release the PV earlier without license (presumably doesnt need one?)
Jun 10 15:08:50 wegster ackcontrols: licensing for carrier board to be done by whome, ack, or other?
Jun 10 15:09:06 wegster and how much ram for mobility 7500?
Jun 10 15:09:06 ackcontrols22 PV will be released first as there isn't any licensing issues, the carrier board will require a license.
Jun 10 15:09:43 Amiga_3k ackcontrol: Guess 'getting a license' has something to do with AmigaInc?
Jun 10 15:10:04 Guest651 ackcontrols: How difficult has it been trying to gain a license?
Jun 10 15:10:20 ackcontrols22 Amiga Inc. has been very responsive and hasn't presented any stumbling blocks.
Jun 10 15:10:51 tarbos does pv tl require a separate licence?
Jun 10 15:11:15 ackcontrols22 tarbos: I'm grouping a few things together.
Jun 10 15:11:47 Bernd ackcontrols22: will OS4 be bundled with the PV? (we had some debate about this before)
Jun 10 15:12:52 Rob a quick google suggests 32MB
Jun 10 15:12:53 ackcontrols22 Bernd: OS4 will be bundled with PV
Jun 10 15:13:07 * crazychin (~user@2b6f2293.1d2128.cmu.carnet.hr) has joined #amigaworld
Jun 10 15:13:14 ackcontrols22 wegster: 32MB and by me
Jun 10 15:13:54 wegster ackcontrols22: has pricing changed on any of the projects, or can you re-state it for anyone that may not know? ie, CPU modules, PV, PV TL? Some have asked if the PV TL WITHOUT CPU cost is $1k, or with CPU?
Jun 10 15:14:26 ackcontrols22 PV TL with CPU in the $1000 to $1200 range
Jun 10 15:14:33 tarbos ack: will pc tl really feature twi gigabit ports or gigabit and 100mbit (i'm a bit a burned child by genesi's first peg2 announcemnets ;)
Jun 10 15:14:39 tarbos pc=pv
Jun 10 15:15:10 ackcontrols22 PV LT will go up in price due to mobility chip
Jun 10 15:15:22 ackcontrols22 tarbos: two GbE ports
Jun 10 15:15:23 Bernd ackcontrols22: is there still a lot work on the port to PV to be done, I guess you are already extremely busy with the hardware, can't imagine how you still find time to work on OS4-related stuff
Jun 10 15:15:59 ackcontrols22 bernd: I did a lot of the porting stuff in a simulated environment.
Jun 10 15:16:23 wegster ackcontrols22: CPU module pricing remaining the same then? So what is expected pricing on PC LT, and how far along is that now, or have more issues happened?
Jun 10 15:16:59 ackcontrols22 CPU module pricing hasn't changed.
Jun 10 15:17:06 Bernd ackcontrols22: do you already know for sure if working Mediator-drivers will be included in the OS4-release for the PV?
Jun 10 15:17:09 * Swagman has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
Jun 10 15:17:23 ackcontrols22 PV LT with the mobility chip will be around $375.00 USD before taxes.
Jun 10 15:17:56 Turambar is that price including OS4?
Jun 10 15:18:41 ackcontrols22 bernd: The issue with Mediator drivers is more internal....noone wants a hacky approach to DMA.
Jun 10 15:18:48 ackcontrols22 Turambar: yes
Jun 10 15:18:51 Yo ackcontrols22: It would be really great if you were to show the public the actual 'thing', even if it IS a work in progress, to evaporate the vapourware taunts... DPaint mock-ups just don't cut it, in my humble opinion. When is this feasible, honestly?
Jun 10 15:19:19 ackcontrols22 Yo: I've never done a DPaint mockup, but will release pictures by Tuesday.
Jun 10 15:19:32 Raziel ackcontrols22: Maybe it was alreday answered, but when will the CPU upgrade cards be available?
Jun 10 15:19:53 ackcontrols22 Raziel for the A1?
Jun 10 15:19:58 Bernd ackcontrols: so does that mean you don't know yet if Mediator-drivers will be ready when the PV is released? can this issue be solved at all?
Jun 10 15:20:30 ackcontrols22 Raziel: I'm ready to turn on the production when the remaining issues are addressed.
Jun 10 15:20:57 Raziel ackcontrols22: Thanks a lot, waiting patiently for the "Go"
Jun 10 15:21:17 tarbos ack: is there a final decision about pci-e vs agp option yet?
Jun 10 15:21:48 ackcontrols22 Bernd: non-DMA drivers are working and with the GFX chip on the CPU card...it does pose an issue for DMA on the A1200.
Jun 10 15:21:53 sundown ackcontrols22: are you setting up dealers to sell the hardware?
Jun 10 15:22:02 ackcontrols22 tarbos: Going with pci-e
Jun 10 15:22:28 ackcontrols22 sundown: a few dealers have already been in contact with me.
Jun 10 15:22:33 hnl_dk ackcontrols22: do you have an idea why there is a "problem" with the CPU modules?
Jun 10 15:22:55 wegster ackcontrols22: you hagd mentioned once before the PV working standalone attached to a mediator. Is this true? So, there are proto PVs in your hands?
Jun 10 15:23:18 ackcontrols22 hnl_dk: At the moment, I need to sleep on the problem.
Jun 10 15:23:53 ackcontrols22 wegster: I've done several prototypes of the PV.
Jun 10 15:24:26 Bernd ackcontrols22: could you please make some photos of the different revs for tuesday?
Jun 10 15:24:38 Rob would the sharkppc(if it arrives) be the better option for mediator and OS4. The CPU and ram would then be on the same bus.
Jun 10 15:24:51 wegster ackcontrols22: ok, and about it running without an A1200 with mediator?
Jun 10 15:25:37 ackcontrols22 wegster: Yes, that was an unintentional surprise.
Jun 10 15:27:30 wegster ackcontrols22: so that might actually allow some people to run 'standalone,' if a bit hackish, for a bit, or no?
Jun 10 15:28:07 Swagman I'll lend you my camera
Jun 10 15:28:08 ackcontrols22 wegster: put it in a case....
Jun 10 15:28:21 Swagman throw a hubcap in the air
Jun 10 15:28:32 Swagman looky
Jun 10 15:28:37 Swagman an amiga
Jun 10 15:28:46 jorge and what about kb and mouse then ?(pv&mediator)
Jun 10 15:28:47 Swagman to og
Jun 10 15:28:56 wegster Swagman: keep comments in this channel limited to related to ACK irc interview in process.
Jun 10 15:29:16 Swagman ?
Jun 10 15:29:16 ackcontrols22 jorge: USB onboard PV for k/b & mouse
Jun 10 15:29:20 wegster ackcontrols22: ok..I might, but yes, was wondering about kb, mouse, etc...usb card?
Jun 10 15:29:59 Bernd ackcontrols22: is your decision not to include a firmware-option to deactivate the PV already *final*?
Jun 10 15:29:59 Swagman heelo a1200
Jun 10 15:30:22 gold Ack would you please ship the two fried Amy05's you were contracted to work on in 2005?
Jun 10 15:30:34 Swagman lol
Jun 10 15:30:42 Swagman another Helgis
Jun 10 15:30:47 Swagman heheh
Jun 10 15:30:49 ackcontrols22 bernd: The design as it is for taking over the 1200 is hardwired
Jun 10 15:30:55 wegster a1200: ACK IRC interview in progress, welcome, but please keep comments in main channel limited to questions and pertaining to ACK for time being.
Jun 10 15:31:05 * wegster has kicked Swagman from #amigaworld (ok, asked nicely, now knock it off.)
Jun 10 15:32:17 derfs ackcontrols22: can you just go over all the different models / versions of hardware you are planning to work on and release. im getting confused with add ons for a1200 etc :)
Jun 10 15:32:27 ackcontrols22 bernd: I've never looked at how Phase 5 did it.
Jun 10 15:33:23 Bernd ackcontrols22: their firmware includes an option to deactivate the board with a simple keystroke - so it should be possible
Jun 10 15:33:38 jorge ackcontrols22: Will the PV TL mainboard be available w/o CPU (e.g. to run an XE module,or to upgrade the cpu now and switch boards later)
Jun 10 15:33:43 Alkaron Well..
Jun 10 15:33:52 Alkaron what have I missed this evening?
Jun 10 15:33:55 Alkaron Something good?
Jun 10 15:34:12 NomadOfNorad Other than the cancellation of the hardware demo? Beats me...
Jun 10 15:34:12 * wegster has changed the topic to: ACK Controls IRC interview in progress, please limit comments in channel to questions for ACK for the duration (or be kicked)
Jun 10 15:34:12 ackcontrols22 bernd: I didn't anticipate having to disable it so I hardwired the bus takeover.
Jun 10 15:34:56 ackcontrols22 jorge: Yes, PV TL will be available without CPUs
Jun 10 15:35:36 NomadOfNorad timescale?
Jun 10 15:36:03 jorge ackcontrols22: Do you have a target price for that, too? And would it be possible to use an XE cpu module with it (given the TL has a 200MHz 60x bus)
Jun 10 15:36:03 wegster ackcontrols22: that may be of interest to existing owners, espexcted pricing without CPUs? And has anything changed there, or still only a single PCI bus and no onboard gfx, sound, (S_ATA?
Jun 10 15:37:36 ackcontrols22 jorge: Board without a CPU will likely be in the $550 to $600 range, but haven't looked at it closely enough.
Jun 10 15:38:00 ackcontrols22 jorge: I've set up the PV TL to allow for 133MHz FSB CPUs
Jun 10 15:38:54 wegster ackcontrols22: has anything changed in expected TL design, as in still only a single PCI bus and no onboard gfx, sound, (S)ATA, etc?
Jun 10 15:39:19 ackcontrols22 wegster: Nothing has changed.
Jun 10 15:40:22 NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: So, we're still on track for a near-term release date?
Jun 10 15:41:13 AC ackcontrols: the delay of the cpu modules does that setback the release of PV?
Jun 10 15:41:14 wegster ackcontrols: so won't having everything on a single PCI bus, including SATA, gfx, etc, cause some pretty poor performance?
Jun 10 15:41:16 derfs ackcontrols22: how many PV's and TL's do you plan on shipping
Jun 10 15:41:26 ackcontrols22 A fully licensed Tsi109 based board running OS4 will be at the AmiRevival show.
Jun 10 15:41:50 jorge ackcontrols22: that sounds a bit high, but I guess you need some time to think it over anyway I it is possible, that would allow people to upgrade for less then 1000$ (and the TSI & PCIe would still be nice)
Jun 10 15:41:53 NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: What is the date if the AmiRevival show?
Jun 10 15:42:03 derfs amirevival - 29th july
Jun 10 15:42:08 ackcontrols22 wegster: There are two bridge chips in the design to improve the performance.
Jun 10 15:42:41 wegster ackcontrols22: ok, thank you.
Jun 10 15:42:59 sundown ackcontrols22: any plans for AmiWest in October?
Jun 10 15:43:21 ackcontrols22 sundown: Nothing official ATM.
Jun 10 15:44:18 Rob so sata and graphics will interconnect with seperate bridges to maximise performance
Jun 10 15:45:04 a1200 ackcontrols22: What have you done with the Amy boards you have in your possession?
Jun 10 15:45:18 ackcontrols22 PCI Express slot is fed by a bridge chip
Jun 10 15:45:41 ackcontrols22 the 4 pci slots are fed by a PCI to PCI bridge as well.
Jun 10 15:46:05 ackcontrols22 a1200/Gold/Troka: The tsi107 based boards are around somewhere.
Jun 10 15:46:55 Rob do you have plans to sell outside the amiga market, are you a member of power.org?
Jun 10 15:47:27 crazyknees ackcontrols22: The Tsi109 board running OS4 that you plan to demo at AmiRevival---will it be a prototype or a production run board?
Jun 10 15:48:24 wegster ackcontrols22: actually, related to Rob's question, someone pointed to some of 'your' (seemed to be) postings on a Haiku board, I believe. Any other OSes targetted?> Also, what do you think of the article posted to http://www.ppcnux.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6413
Jun 10 15:49:03 ackcontrols22 Rob: I've looked into seeing if there was any interest on the Haiku board
Jun 10 15:49:56 ackcontrols22 crazyknees: Likely a pre-production version.
Jun 10 15:51:00 derfs ackcontrols22: can you just go over all the different models / versions of hardware you are planning to work on and release. im getting confused with add ons for a1200 etc :)
Jun 10 15:51:48 ackcontrols22 derfs: There will be an MPC5200 based board for the A1200 that includes a mobility chip. This is known as the PowerVixxen LT.
Jun 10 15:52:56 ackcontrols22 There will be two CPU modules available for the AmigaOne boards and the PowerVixxen TL board in 1GHz and 1.7GHz speeds.
Jun 10 15:53:05 number6 ACK IRC interview in progress, welcome, but please keep comments in main channel limited to questions and pertaining to ACK for time being.
Jun 10 15:53:44 wegster ackcontrols22: Any other OSes showing any interest? Also, what do you think of the article posted to http://www.ppcnux.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6413 ? (Article linked to contains information on both ACK and Troika, yet was published by neither one on a Linux PPC site)
Jun 10 15:54:06 ackcontrols22 A carrier board for the PV LT will follow after the CPUs and PV TL is out.
Jun 10 15:54:35 ackcontrols22 wegster: Regarding the article.....briefly read it, no real comments
Jun 10 15:54:50 a1200 ackcontrols22: who finanaces your research and prototypes/production?
Jun 10 15:54:58 wegster ackcontrols22: but you gave no input into it? (article)
Jun 10 15:55:03 NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: what is a "carrier board"?
Jun 10 15:55:37 ackcontrols22 wegster: Haven't seen any real interest from others, other than the OpenBIOS guy offering support.
Jun 10 15:56:10 wegster too bad, haikuu was worth a try.
Jun 10 15:56:24 ackcontrols22 NoN: carrier board....will allow the PV LT to plug into it and will supply power to the CPU.
Jun 10 15:56:56 wegster ackcontrols22: do you have rough/expected pricingon the carrier board, and expect it to be available before or after PV TL?
Jun 10 15:57:26 derfs ackcontrols22: does the problem with the cpu cards for the a1's mean that there will be the same problem if they are used with the LT? or could you still release the LT if you dont fix them.
Jun 10 15:57:35 ackcontrols22 wegster: No pricing yet, but definately after PV TL.
Jun 10 15:57:43 derfs soz, TL
Jun 10 15:57:59 Desler Would you suspect an XE G4 800mhz CPU to perform better in the PV TL? (Read somewhere that the XE bus was rather poor)
Jun 10 15:58:47 ackcontrols22 derfs: I'm using the MPx protocol on the TL board and the 60x protocol for the AmigaOne boards.
Jun 10 15:59:21 ackcontrols22 Desler: I'm expecting significantly better memory performance in the TL.
Jun 10 16:00:05 NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: what is the ceiling on memory-expansion for the PV?
Jun 10 16:01:15 ackcontrols22 NoN: PV LT has 512MB and is maxxed, the TL has a max of 2GB in a max of 2 DIMM slots
Jun 10 16:02:07 Eric_S ackcontrols22, Mind if I ask a question? Can you get the CPU card to either work with the A1 or the TL, or does it just work in one of them atm?
Jun 10 16:02:17 NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: Will this ram be an widely available type, or are we back to the specialised types of ram again?
Jun 10 16:02:25 Eric_S DDR-2
Jun 10 16:02:34 Eric_S Right?
Jun 10 16:02:36 Turambar ackcontrols22: the RAM is soldered onboard on the PV LT?
Jun 10 16:03:16 ackcontrols22 Eric_S: Pre-lim results show the CPU module works as expected in the TL.
Jun 10 16:03:27 ackcontrols22 NoN: DDR-2 widely available.
Jun 10 16:03:34 wegster ackcontrols22: so you have a proto working of the TL, then?
Jun 10 16:03:36 Eric_S Ok, ta
Jun 10 16:03:50 derfs wegster: didnt u already ask that ? ;)
Jun 10 16:04:04 wegster derfs: I dunno, maybe, am tired and many PMs
Jun 10 16:04:16 ackcontrols22 wegster: mostly working
Jun 10 16:04:19 wegster derfs: actually, had asked abouyt PV, as in PV LT, not TL.
Jun 10 16:04:24 tarbos ack: what made you choose the Tsi109 over 108?
Jun 10 16:04:41 derfs oh heh
Jun 10 16:04:48 ackcontrols22 tarbos: ability for SMP.
Jun 10 16:04:55 tarbos :)
Jun 10 16:05:54 derfs have we been told what will be the first thing ack will be producing?
Jun 10 16:06:00 wegster ackcontrols22: so why SMP? To later release a dual CPU module for other platforms/OSes?
Jun 10 16:07:02 Desler ACK: I know its pretty early, but do you have any long term plans with amiga hardware (ie new models at some point)
Jun 10 16:07:17 ackcontrols22 wegster: It seemed to be worth it, also, it's cheaper to put two 1GHz chips on a module than one 1.7GHz chip.
Jun 10 16:07:22 NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: A dual-core AmigaOS would sure be nice. Any word on something like that being a possibility? Or is that under NDA?
Jun 10 16:08:02 wegster ackcontrols22: interesting. And yes, cheaper, certainly, but without SMP OS4, would assume this was aimed at Linux or other OS, or just 'in future'?
Jun 10 16:08:39 ackcontrols22 The price differential between the Tsi108 and the Tsi109 wasn't worth the savings of not leaving that option open.
Jun 10 16:09:19 derfs ackcontrols22: when you finish the TL and release it, would someone just need to change the cpu card to get SMP, if the OS supported it?
Jun 10 16:10:14 ackcontrols22 SMP needs the OS to support it, obviously....a dual CPU card would need to be available.
Jun 10 16:10:26 tarbos ack: will you have robust linux support for the TL or is this no priority?
Jun 10 16:11:43 ackcontrols22 Documentation required for Linux support will be available.
Jun 10 16:12:23 ackcontrols22 Initial firmware is still likely to be u-boot, but will move to OpenBIOS when it's stable enough.
Jun 10 16:12:52 derfs heh just typing in what bios is it.. spooky :)
Jun 10 16:13:03 NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: what advantages does OpenBIOS offer over u-boot?
Jun 10 16:13:28 ackcontrols22 It's a standard ;)
Jun 10 16:13:50 tarbos does openbios include a x86 emu for card bios code?
Jun 10 16:13:56 Rob Didn't the Friedens get a dual cpu card from Eyetech did it work
Jun 10 16:14:12 NomadOfNorad "Standards are good: There are so many of them to choose from."
Jun 10 16:14:19 ackcontrols22 tarbos: not yet ;)
Jun 10 16:14:26 migthymax ackcontrols22: so in future OS4 will boot from OpenBIOS?
Jun 10 16:14:29 Bernd ackcontrols22: would OpenBios support theoretically open the TL to the MOS-market (if it will be supported)? Could mean more sales
Jun 10 16:14:45 ackcontrols22 Rob: Yes
Jun 10 16:15:23 NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: But someone IS working on getting x86 emulation into the OpenBIOS for card-support?
Jun 10 16:15:57 ackcontrols22 bernd: OpenBIOS is still a ways off for me, but it is in the plans.
Jun 10 16:16:27 ackcontrols22 bernd: documentation will be available for people porting other OSs.
Jun 10 16:19:24 derfs ackcontrols22: sorry if you have already said this, but what order do you plan to release things. im not after timescales :)
Jun 10 16:19:59 ackcontrols22 derfs: CPUs, PV TL, PV LT, PV LT Carrier board
Jun 10 16:20:10 derfs thx
Jun 10 16:21:19 Guest ackcontrols22: what kind o problems do you have with the cpu cards?
Jun 10 16:21:24 derfs ackcontrols22: have you thought about asking aw.net staff to have a section dedicated to latest ack info ? as i know you dont have a web site atm
Jun 10 16:22:07 ackcontrols22 Guest: Looks like I'm doing something wrong on the 60x protocol side of things.
Jun 10 16:22:26 Helgy ackcontrols, how do you thinkthe PowerVixxen TL will compare against the new Troika board?
Jun 10 16:22:41 ackcontrols22 derfs: I'll have an official website by the time things launch.
Jun 10 16:23:17 ackcontrols22 Helgy: the Tsi109 is the way to go, no doubt about that.
Jun 10 16:23:55 Helgy ackcontrols: I am glad to hear it. But the Troika board is also TSI109, no? So, can any comparisons be made, or comments on that board?
Jun 10 16:24:10 Jeffshepherd ack, as you don't yet have a website is there any other site we can go to for further info on your products?
Jun 10 16:24:13 jorge ackcontrols22: Nobody asked that and I don't know if you want to answer this. Are you working with Troika on their design, too ? You mentioned some sort of cooperation before. Is this Amiga related or something else ?
Jun 10 16:24:44 Guest ackcontrols22: have you ever tested os4 on one of your boards?
Jun 10 16:24:51 ackcontrols22 Helgy: performance wise, it's going to be the same
Jun 10 16:24:55 NomadOfNorad Well, maybe it will help with the economics of scale, at least.
Jun 10 16:25:21 ackcontrols22 JeffShepherd: no
Jun 10 16:25:35 Jeffshepherd ok ack
Jun 10 16:26:30 Guest285 I am just arriving...is there going to be a log of this chat session??
Jun 10 16:26:41 wegster Guest: of course, hopefully made saner tho.
Jun 10 16:26:50 Guest285 thanks
Jun 10 16:27:47 wegster ackcontrols: so, seeing as the TL and umm..'super amy' board are essentially the same performance, does it make sense to compete with each other there? In other words, what would make someone choose one over the other (TL vs 'Amy G4)?
Jun 10 16:29:19 ackcontrols22 form factor
Jun 10 16:29:27 Bernd hehe
Jun 10 16:29:34 wegster ackcontrols: the TL is/will be ATX, no?
Jun 10 16:30:02 wegster or is that still up in air/not finalized?
Jun 10 16:30:14 wegster as well as # of pci slots, etc?
Jun 10 16:30:20 NomadOfNorad ackcontrol22: Any miniITX or MicroATX mobos in the works?
Jun 10 16:30:29 jorge ...and integrated components on the board ?
Jun 10 16:30:35 ackcontrols22 NoN: Not at the moment.
Jun 10 16:30:39 sundown wegster: whoever comes out first?
Jun 10 16:31:05 ackcontrols22 jorge: this is a pure expansion slot type board, aimed at devs
Jun 10 16:31:12 Guest285 do you plan on taking preorders on your products..when the time comes???
Jun 10 16:31:45 NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: Will there be case-badges with the boing-ball on them, or a PV logo, for users to place on their cases?
Jun 10 16:32:15 wegster ackcontrols22: so TL is still ATX? With how many PCI slots?
Jun 10 16:32:43 ackcontrols22 ATX
Jun 10 16:32:44 Amiga_3k NoN: I'd get it even if it came with Windows badges
Jun 10 16:32:54 Guest285
Jun 10 16:33:04 Guest285 We'd just scrap them off !!!
Jun 10 16:33:16 ackcontrols22 I PCI-e slot, 1 dedicated 66MHz slot, 4 PCI slots @ 33/66.
Jun 10 16:33:41 tarbos ack: are the 4 pci slots 3.3v keyed?
Jun 10 16:34:14 jorge Will you offer or bundle a USB/IDE combo board for the PCI/66 ? How does one know, which board will work ?
Jun 10 16:34:57 NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: You could provide a neat little sticker that says "Optimised for AmigaOS4" with the mobos.
Jun 10 16:35:14 ackcontrols22 jorge: that will be left up to dealers to arrange
Jun 10 16:35:28 NomadOfNorad You know, like those old stickers that say "Optimised for Windows XP" or whatever.
Jun 10 16:35:45 jorge ThePCIeis still a 1 lane, right ?
Jun 10 16:35:55 ackcontrols22 jorge: yes
Jun 10 16:36:50 jorge Do you have any feedback, which board will run with it yet ? X300 (or what else can we expect. I know,that's more a SW question.But did you guys have talks about that already?)
Jun 10 16:36:53 wegster ackcontrols22: are there legacy ports on the TL, or will a working USB board need to be found first, for mouse and kb?
Jun 10 16:36:56 Argo__ Imagination Inside!
Jun 10 16:37:19 NomadOfNorad Intuition Inside!
Jun 10 16:37:48 ackcontrols22 wegster: The only legacy ports are the serial debug ports.
Jun 10 16:38:01 Yo An actual working licenced MoBo inside!
Jun 10 16:38:25 tarbos ack: are the 4 pci ports fully compatible to 5v keyed cards?
Jun 10 16:38:42 ackcontrols22 tarbos: The 4 pci slots allow 5V keyed cards.
Jun 10 16:38:50 wegster ackcontrols: so that would mean a working usb card driver must be found for it to work with OS4. Who will select and develop a driver for such a board, or other options?
Jun 10 16:39:41 ackcontrols22 wegster: I'll likely handle any drivers required.
Jun 10 16:40:02 wegster ackcontrols: and, at least on the A1s, a system crash is unrecoverable via cold or warm reboots as the usb stack in the OS dies, anything different there with the TL or the TL version of uBoot, to allow a cold reboot in the event of an OS crash?
Jun 10 16:40:30 wegster (clarification- some system crashes).
Jun 10 16:41:17 jorge ackcontrols22: if you say you will provide drivers, will you at least release a list of reference boards which will be supported by the driver
Jun 10 16:41:19 ackcontrols22 wegster: I'm not quite at that level of running.
Jun 10 16:41:39 NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: so, no ps/2 connectors? just usb?
Jun 10 16:41:43 ackcontrols22 jorge: yes, I'll support dealers that way, but the idea is to let them locally source what they need
Jun 10 16:41:46 ackcontrols22 no ps2
Jun 10 16:41:52 wegster ackcontrols22: ok, fair enough. Is a valid problem for the 'fantasy styled case' as well as any usb only board, be interesting to see how that works out.
Jun 10 16:42:51 ackcontrols22 wegster: Not really, use USB k/b and attach k/b to header on mobo.
Jun 10 16:43:36 wegster ackcontrols22: yes, but when the os crashes, uboot or other f/w would need to handle the cold resets, no? WHich it doesn't appear to do, currently..?
Jun 10 16:44:37 ackcontrols22 wegster: I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there.
Jun 10 16:45:11 wegster ok.
Jun 10 16:46:59 ackcontrols22 I have to run.....time for one last question.
Jun 10 16:47:28 wegster ackcontrols22: so, when, besides Tuesdays pictures, can we expect any futher/additional, or even summarize in one place, info from you?
Jun 10 16:47:58 NomadOfNorad plus a copy of the chat transcript, presumably.
Jun 10 16:48:05 jorge Not much to ask for me. Thx for your time Adam and good luck to get the board done (ASAP):)
Jun 10 16:48:06 wegster anyone else, jump in if they have something 'more urgent', but hoping to avoid another *poof* periond from ACK..
Jun 10 16:48:25 wegster NomadOfNorad: I or someone else will log and provide the irc...adam, am assuming is ok to publish the log..
Jun 10 16:48:33 ackcontrols22 wegster: I will provide updates every two weeks and be available in chat around that time.
Jun 10 16:48:42 SLayeRDK hes on the site, hes not unreachable :)
Jun 10 16:48:51 Amiga_3k Adam, get some sleep and then solve the probs. Hope something will materialize in the not so distant future.
Jun 10 16:49:04 ackcontrols22 Amiga_3k: Thanks.
Jun 10 16:49:09 ackcontrols22 later....
Jun 10 16:49:11 Helgy ackcontrols22: Thank you, I hope we see a new board soon, I can't wait!
Jun 10 16:49:11 Jeffshepherd Thanks for tonights chat ack
Jun 10 16:49:12 Guest651 thanks for answering the Q's Adam
Jun 10 16:49:18 * ackcontrols22 has quit (Quit: )
Jun 10 16:49:21 wegster ok, thanks Adam.
Jun 10 16:49:24 wegster oops, too late.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

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Desler 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 21:09:19
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 185
From: Unknown

@wegster

I find it pretty interesting that he / they (hyperion etc) are planning to migrate to openbios. This opens the possibility of allowing users from "other" amigaOSs to use future PowerVixxen TL boards. Pretty smart

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Derfs 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 21:12:56
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 772
From: me To: you

@Desler

nothing to do with hyperion, ack is interested in moving to openbios in the future, when it is more mature and has everything needed.

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wegster 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 21:13:45
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@wegster
without date stamps, a bit more legible:

ackcontrols22 what did you guys do to foody?
sundown lol
SLayeRDK tease a little bit to much
ackcontrols22 people take things too seriously
SLayeRDK you should know by now :)
Amiga_3k Probably asking the already answered question but here it is: Why exactly is the demo cancelled?
ackcontrols22 Technical problem with CPU module using 60x bus on the MicroA1.
Bernd ackcontrols: why didnt you demo on XE instead?
wegster ackcontrols: foody PMSed as usual and got offended at people joking with him. Were you on IRC more, you'd know about the 'foody binary PMS switch' of his.
ackcontrols22 Spent too much time working on the MicroA1 that I didn't leave enough time to properly prepare for the demo.
ackcontrols22 A bit obsessive compulsive that way.
Bernd ackcontrols: but is it working on the XE then?
wegster ackcontrols22: You continue to seriously hurt any belief people have in you, by waiting to the last minute to cancel these demos. Why didn't you at least give people notice, considering the fact there are people in many timezones? Even if you don't respond to this, I REALLY hope you'll consider this in the future.
Amiga_3k You reckon the technical problem encoutered can be adressed and solved (I know, all technical problems can be solved when there's a big bag of money sitting around, but I don't think such a bag exists at your office )?
ackcontrols22 Bernd: It doesn't lock up, but not getting the throughput that was expected.
T_Power ackcontrols22: Timing issues?
tarbos did you look at pegasos throughput numbers? :)
Outcast no show at AmiRevival then
ackcontrols22 wegster: Agreed, but the final result will speak for itself.
tarbos http://www.greyhound-data.com/gunnar/glibc/index.htm?page=benchmarks
tarbos does the 7448 perform better or worse?
wegster ackcontrols22: Do you have a picture, or will you release one, so people that are doubting can at least see something?
Outcast damage may well be terminal by then
ackcontrols22 I'm really not worried about the damage as worrying about it doesn't allow me to focus on what I need to do.
pete sex?
Rob I think you go the wrong channel pete
pete damn ;)
Outcast lol .. people are calling for a major show again but there's nothing to show !!!
wegster ackcontrols22: Do you have a picture, or will you release one, so people that are doubting can at least see something?
wegster ackcontrols22: so what throughput ARE you seeing then vs expected?
tarbos i think tundra already released numbers for STREAM
T_Power ackcontrols22: Timing issues, termination issues, any direction on the H/W issues?
Bernd ackcontrols22: couldn't you have just shown what you had, or work-in-progress stuff, e.g. a working (?) Powervixxen running Linux, the modules on the XE, instead of cancelling in the last minute?
sundown ackcontrols22: pics would be every bit as good as a demo
Bernd 1 1/2 years and not even a single photo of the powervixxen or a screenshot with running Linux...
tarbos 640MB/s or so for 7448 1.4ghz and 200mhz bus
ackcontrols22 As much as I LOATH pictures, I will release pictures of everything.
wegster ackcontrols22: when/where?
tarbos . o O (in due time :)
ackcontrols22 No later than Tuesday evening on amigaworld.net
miksuh I was earlier against it but I'm starting to think that OS4 should be ported to standard x86 PC too.
miksuh I have not lost any interest in OS4 but this hardware situation is too frustarting
miksuh it's great that ackl and others are atleast trying though
wegster ackcontrols22: does that include only the CPU card, os 'anything else'? If unable or unwilling to get into further details on the CPU card problems (feel free to), what is the status pof PV and/or the other board?
ackcontrols22 miksuh: I'm not opposed to an x86 port.
wegster all - please limit comments in main to questions and followups for ackcontrols for the duration of the ack irc session.
wegster (yes, I realize this should be in a different channel in the first place, but it isn't.)
Bernd ok, who's next to ask something?
pentrite Ack: in % what performance increase do you hope to get?
T_Power ackcontrols22: What problems have you isolated so far?
ackcontrols22 pentrite: looking for about a 2.0 x improvement over the 800MHz 750GX
ackcontrols22 T_Power: I haven't isolated any problems yet, but I'm confident in the termination and power levels.
tarbos ack: do you use the thermal diode to monitor cpu temp?
ackcontrols22 tarbos: there is circuitry to monitor temp and shut down if necessary, but it's presently disabled.
Bernd ackcontrols22: couldn't you have just shown what you had, like work-in-progress stuff, e.g. a working (?) Powervixxen running Linux, the CPU-module on the XE, instead of cancelling in the last minute?
ackcontrols22 bernd: I didn't have enough time to prepare as I was focused on finding the problem.
ackcontrols22 It's been a couple of sleepless nights
Rob have you decided on what graphics chip the Powervixxen LT will have
T_Power ackcontrols22: "I didn't have enough time to prepare as I was focused on finding the problem..." Tunnel vision, It does get intense hehe....
Bernd ackcontrols22: any status update on the powervixxen now that the CPU-connector issue is sorted out?
tarbos ack: how much ram will powervixxen tl support, are there 2 dimm sockets onboard?
ackcontrols22 Bernd: Barring any unforseen issues, I'm expecting to have the PV LT at the AmiRevival show.
wegster heh, 20 questions to 1 answer- ackcontrols22, why don't you give a general status on PowerVixxen, PowerVixxen standalone and the other board before we get into random specific Qs on those?
ackcontrols22 tarbos: 2Gb of total memory in 2 DDR2 DIMM slots.
Rob will the Radeon have its own ram i will it be shared
ackcontrols22 Rob: Mobility chip has it's own onboard memory.
ackcontrols22 Rob: Needed that for reduced board space
ackcontrols22 The PV carrier board is on hold until licensing is finalized, which happens to be sometime soon though.
Bernd ackcontrols: do you plan to release both PV and breakout box together, or would you also release the PV earlier without license (presumably doesnt need one?)
wegster ackcontrols: licensing for carrier board to be done by whome, ack, or other?
wegster and how much ram for mobility 7500?
ackcontrols22 PV will be released first as there isn't any licensing issues, the carrier board will require a license.
Amiga_3k ackcontrol: Guess 'getting a license' has something to do with AmigaInc?
Guest651 ackcontrols: How difficult has it been trying to gain a license?
ackcontrols22 Amiga Inc. has been very responsive and hasn't presented any stumbling blocks.
tarbos does pv tl require a separate licence?
ackcontrols22 tarbos: I'm grouping a few things together.
Bernd ackcontrols22: will OS4 be bundled with the PV? (we had some debate about this before)
Rob a quick google suggests 32MB
ackcontrols22 Bernd: OS4 will be bundled with PV
* crazychin (~user@2b6f2293.1d2128.cmu.carnet.hr) has joined #amigaworld
ackcontrols22 wegster: 32MB and by me
wegster ackcontrols22: has pricing changed on any of the projects, or can you re-state it for anyone that may not know? ie, CPU modules, PV, PV TL? Some have asked if the PV TL WITHOUT CPU cost is $1k, or with CPU?
ackcontrols22 PV TL with CPU in the $1000 to $1200 range
tarbos ack: will pc tl really feature twi gigabit ports or gigabit and 100mbit (i'm a bit a burned child by genesi's first peg2 announcemnets ;)
tarbos pc=pv
ackcontrols22 PV LT will go up in price due to mobility chip
ackcontrols22 tarbos: two GbE ports
Bernd ackcontrols22: is there still a lot work on the port to PV to be done, I guess you are already extremely busy with the hardware, can't imagine how you still find time to work on OS4-related stuff
ackcontrols22 bernd: I did a lot of the porting stuff in a simulated environment.
wegster ackcontrols22: CPU module pricing remaining the same then? So what is expected pricing on PC LT, and how far along is that now, or have more issues happened?
ackcontrols22 CPU module pricing hasn't changed.
Bernd ackcontrols22: do you already know for sure if working Mediator-drivers will be included in the OS4-release for the PV?
* Swagman has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
ackcontrols22 PV LT with the mobility chip will be around $375.00 USD before taxes.
Turambar is that price including OS4?
ackcontrols22 bernd: The issue with Mediator drivers is more internal....noone wants a hacky approach to DMA.
ackcontrols22 Turambar: yes
Yo ackcontrols22: It would be really great if you were to show the public the actual 'thing', even if it IS a work in progress, to evaporate the vapourware taunts... DPaint mock-ups just don't cut it, in my humble opinion. When is this feasible, honestly?
ackcontrols22 Yo: I've never done a DPaint mockup, but will release pictures by Tuesday.
Raziel ackcontrols22: Maybe it was alreday answered, but when will the CPU upgrade cards be available?
ackcontrols22 Raziel for the A1?
Bernd ackcontrols: so does that mean you don't know yet if Mediator-drivers will be ready when the PV is released? can this issue be solved at all?
ackcontrols22 Raziel: I'm ready to turn on the production when the remaining issues are addressed.
Raziel ackcontrols22: Thanks a lot, waiting patiently for the "Go"
tarbos ack: is there a final decision about pci-e vs agp option yet?
ackcontrols22 Bernd: non-DMA drivers are working and with the GFX chip on the CPU card...it does pose an issue for DMA on the A1200.
sundown ackcontrols22: are you setting up dealers to sell the hardware?
ackcontrols22 tarbos: Going with pci-e
ackcontrols22 sundown: a few dealers have already been in contact with me.
hnl_dk ackcontrols22: do you have an idea why there is a "problem" with the CPU modules?
wegster ackcontrols22: you hagd mentioned once before the PV working standalone attached to a mediator. Is this true? So, there are proto PVs in your hands?
ackcontrols22 hnl_dk: At the moment, I need to sleep on the problem.
ackcontrols22 wegster: I've done several prototypes of the PV.
Bernd ackcontrols22: could you please make some photos of the different revs for tuesday?
Rob would the sharkppc(if it arrives) be the better option for mediator and OS4. The CPU and ram would then be on the same bus.
wegster ackcontrols22: ok, and about it running without an A1200 with mediator?
ackcontrols22 wegster: Yes, that was an unintentional surprise.
wegster ackcontrols22: so that might actually allow some people to run 'standalone,' if a bit hackish, for a bit, or no?
Swagman I'll lend you my camera
ackcontrols22 wegster: put it in a case....
Swagman throw a hubcap in the air
Swagman looky
Swagman an amiga
jorge and what about kb and mouse then ?(pv&mediator)
Swagman to og
wegster Swagman: keep comments in this channel limited to related to ACK irc interview in process.
Swagman ?
ackcontrols22 jorge: USB onboard PV for k/b & mouse
wegster ackcontrols22: ok..I might, but yes, was wondering about kb, mouse, etc...usb card?
Bernd ackcontrols22: is your decision not to include a firmware-option to deactivate the PV already *final*?
Swagman heelo a1200
gold Ack would you please ship the two fried Amy05's you were contracted to work on in 2005?
Swagman lol
Swagman another Helgis
Swagman heheh
ackcontrols22 bernd: The design as it is for taking over the 1200 is hardwired
wegster a1200: ACK IRC interview in progress, welcome, but please keep comments in main channel limited to questions and pertaining to ACK for time being.
* wegster has kicked Swagman from #amigaworld (ok, asked nicely, now knock it off.)
derfs ackcontrols22: can you just go over all the different models / versions of hardware you are planning to work on and release. im getting confused with add ons for a1200 etc :)
ackcontrols22 bernd: I've never looked at how Phase 5 did it.
Bernd ackcontrols22: their firmware includes an option to deactivate the board with a simple keystroke - so it should be possible
jorge ackcontrols22: Will the PV TL mainboard be available w/o CPU (e.g. to run an XE module,or to upgrade the cpu now and switch boards later)
Alkaron Well..
Alkaron what have I missed this evening?
Alkaron Something good?
NomadOfNorad Other than the cancellation of the hardware demo? Beats me...
* wegster has changed the topic to: ACK Controls IRC interview in progress, please limit comments in channel to questions for ACK for the duration (or be kicked)
ackcontrols22 bernd: I didn't anticipate having to disable it so I hardwired the bus takeover.
ackcontrols22 jorge: Yes, PV TL will be available without CPUs
NomadOfNorad timescale?
jorge ackcontrols22: Do you have a target price for that, too? And would it be possible to use an XE cpu module with it (given the TL has a 200MHz 60x bus)
wegster ackcontrols22: that may be of interest to existing owners, espexcted pricing without CPUs? And has anything changed there, or still only a single PCI bus and no onboard gfx, sound, (S_ATA?
ackcontrols22 jorge: Board without a CPU will likely be in the $550 to $600 range, but haven't looked at it closely enough.
ackcontrols22 jorge: I've set up the PV TL to allow for 133MHz FSB CPUs
wegster ackcontrols22: has anything changed in expected TL design, as in still only a single PCI bus and no onboard gfx, sound, (S)ATA, etc?
ackcontrols22 wegster: Nothing has changed.
NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: So, we're still on track for a near-term release date?
AC ackcontrols: the delay of the cpu modules does that setback the release of PV?
wegster ackcontrols: so won't having everything on a single PCI bus, including SATA, gfx, etc, cause some pretty poor performance?
derfs ackcontrols22: how many PV's and TL's do you plan on shipping
ackcontrols22 A fully licensed Tsi109 based board running OS4 will be at the AmiRevival show.
jorge ackcontrols22: that sounds a bit high, but I guess you need some time to think it over anyway I it is possible, that would allow people to upgrade for less then 1000$ (and the TSI & PCIe would still be nice)
NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: What is the date if the AmiRevival show?
derfs amirevival - 29th july
ackcontrols22 wegster: There are two bridge chips in the design to improve the performance.
wegster ackcontrols22: ok, thank you.
sundown ackcontrols22: any plans for AmiWest in October?
ackcontrols22 sundown: Nothing official ATM.
Rob so sata and graphics will interconnect with seperate bridges to maximise performance
a1200 ackcontrols22: What have you done with the Amy boards you have in your possession?
ackcontrols22 PCI Express slot is fed by a bridge chip
ackcontrols22 the 4 pci slots are fed by a PCI to PCI bridge as well.
ackcontrols22 a1200/Gold/Troka: The tsi107 based boards are around somewhere.
Rob do you have plans to sell outside the amiga market, are you a member of power.org?
crazyknees ackcontrols22: The Tsi109 board running OS4 that you plan to demo at AmiRevival---will it be a prototype or a production run board?
wegster ackcontrols22: actually, related to Rob's question, someone pointed to some of 'your' (seemed to be) postings on a Haiku board, I believe. Any other OSes targetted?> Also, what do you think of the article posted to http://www.ppcnux.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6413
ackcontrols22 Rob: I've looked into seeing if there was any interest on the Haiku board
ackcontrols22 crazyknees: Likely a pre-production version.
derfs ackcontrols22: can you just go over all the different models / versions of hardware you are planning to work on and release. im getting confused with add ons for a1200 etc :)
ackcontrols22 derfs: There will be an MPC5200 based board for the A1200 that includes a mobility chip. This is known as the PowerVixxen LT.
ackcontrols22 There will be two CPU modules available for the AmigaOne boards and the PowerVixxen TL board in 1GHz and 1.7GHz speeds.
number6 ACK IRC interview in progress, welcome, but please keep comments in main channel limited to questions and pertaining to ACK for time being.
wegster ackcontrols22: Any other OSes showing any interest? Also, what do you think of the article posted to http://www.ppcnux.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6413 ? (Article linked to contains information on both ACK and Troika, yet was published by neither one on a Linux PPC site)
ackcontrols22 A carrier board for the PV LT will follow after the CPUs and PV TL is out.
ackcontrols22 wegster: Regarding the article.....briefly read it, no real comments
a1200 ackcontrols22: who finanaces your research and prototypes/production?
wegster ackcontrols22: but you gave no input into it? (article)
NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: what is a "carrier board"?
ackcontrols22 wegster: Haven't seen any real interest from others, other than the OpenBIOS guy offering support.
wegster too bad, haikuu was worth a try.
ackcontrols22 NoN: carrier board....will allow the PV LT to plug into it and will supply power to the CPU.
wegster ackcontrols22: do you have rough/expected pricingon the carrier board, and expect it to be available before or after PV TL?
derfs ackcontrols22: does the problem with the cpu cards for the a1's mean that there will be the same problem if they are used with the LT? or could you still release the LT if you dont fix them.
ackcontrols22 wegster: No pricing yet, but definately after PV TL.
derfs soz, TL
Desler Would you suspect an XE G4 800mhz CPU to perform better in the PV TL? (Read somewhere that the XE bus was rather poor)
ackcontrols22 derfs: I'm using the MPx protocol on the TL board and the 60x protocol for the AmigaOne boards.
ackcontrols22 Desler: I'm expecting significantly better memory performance in the TL.
NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: what is the ceiling on memory-expansion for the PV?
ackcontrols22 NoN: PV LT has 512MB and is maxxed, the TL has a max of 2GB in a max of 2 DIMM slots
Eric_S ackcontrols22, Mind if I ask a question? Can you get the CPU card to either work with the A1 or the TL, or does it just work in one of them atm?
NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: Will this ram be an widely available type, or are we back to the specialised types of ram again?
Eric_S DDR-2
Eric_S Right?
Turambar ackcontrols22: the RAM is soldered onboard on the PV LT?
ackcontrols22 Eric_S: Pre-lim results show the CPU module works as expected in the TL.
ackcontrols22 NoN: DDR-2 widely available.
wegster ackcontrols22: so you have a proto working of the TL, then?
Eric_S Ok, ta
derfs wegster: didnt u already ask that ? ;)
wegster derfs: I dunno, maybe, am tired and many PMs
ackcontrols22 wegster: mostly working
wegster derfs: actually, had asked abouyt PV, as in PV LT, not TL.
tarbos ack: what made you choose the Tsi109 over 108?
derfs oh heh
ackcontrols22 tarbos: ability for SMP.
tarbos :)
derfs have we been told what will be the first thing ack will be producing?
wegster ackcontrols22: so why SMP? To later release a dual CPU module for other platforms/OSes?
Desler ACK: I know its pretty early, but do you have any long term plans with amiga hardware (ie new models at some point)
ackcontrols22 wegster: It seemed to be worth it, also, it's cheaper to put two 1GHz chips on a module than one 1.7GHz chip.
NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: A dual-core AmigaOS would sure be nice. Any word on something like that being a possibility? Or is that under NDA?
wegster ackcontrols22: interesting. And yes, cheaper, certainly, but without SMP OS4, would assume this was aimed at Linux or other OS, or just 'in future'?
ackcontrols22 The price differential between the Tsi108 and the Tsi109 wasn't worth the savings of not leaving that option open.
derfs ackcontrols22: when you finish the TL and release it, would someone just need to change the cpu card to get SMP, if the OS supported it?
ackcontrols22 SMP needs the OS to support it, obviously....a dual CPU card would need to be available.
tarbos ack: will you have robust linux support for the TL or is this no priority?
ackcontrols22 Documentation required for Linux support will be available.
ackcontrols22 Initial firmware is still likely to be u-boot, but will move to OpenBIOS when it's stable enough.
derfs heh just typing in what bios is it.. spooky :)
NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: what advantages does OpenBIOS offer over u-boot?
ackcontrols22 It's a standard ;)
tarbos does openbios include a x86 emu for card bios code?
Rob Didn't the Friedens get a dual cpu card from Eyetech did it work
NomadOfNorad "Standards are good: There are so many of them to choose from."
ackcontrols22 tarbos: not yet ;)
migthymax ackcontrols22: so in future OS4 will boot from OpenBIOS?
Bernd ackcontrols22: would OpenBios support theoretically open the TL to the MOS-market (if it will be supported)? Could mean more sales
ackcontrols22 Rob: Yes
NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: But someone IS working on getting x86 emulation into the OpenBIOS for card-support?
ackcontrols22 bernd: OpenBIOS is still a ways off for me, but it is in the plans.
ackcontrols22 bernd: documentation will be available for people porting other OSs.
derfs ackcontrols22: sorry if you have already said this, but what order do you plan to release things. im not after timescales :)
ackcontrols22 derfs: CPUs, PV TL, PV LT, PV LT Carrier board
derfs thx
Guest ackcontrols22: what kind o problems do you have with the cpu cards?
derfs ackcontrols22: have you thought about asking aw.net staff to have a section dedicated to latest ack info ? as i know you dont have a web site atm
ackcontrols22 Guest: Looks like I'm doing something wrong on the 60x protocol side of things.
Helgy ackcontrols, how do you thinkthe PowerVixxen TL will compare against the new Troika board?
ackcontrols22 derfs: I'll have an official website by the time things launch.
ackcontrols22 Helgy: the Tsi109 is the way to go, no doubt about that.
Helgy ackcontrols: I am glad to hear it. But the Troika board is also TSI109, no? So, can any comparisons be made, or comments on that board?
Jeffshepherd ack, as you don't yet have a website is there any other site we can go to for further info on your products?
jorge ackcontrols22: Nobody asked that and I don't know if you want to answer this. Are you working with Troika on their design, too ? You mentioned some sort of cooperation before. Is this Amiga related or something else ?
Guest ackcontrols22: have you ever tested os4 on one of your boards?
ackcontrols22 Helgy: performance wise, it's going to be the same
NomadOfNorad Well, maybe it will help with the economics of scale, at least.
ackcontrols22 JeffShepherd: no
Jeffshepherd ok ack
Guest285 I am just arriving...is there going to be a log of this chat session??
wegster Guest: of course, hopefully made saner tho.
Guest285 thanks
wegster ackcontrols: so, seeing as the TL and umm..'super amy' board are essentially the same performance, does it make sense to compete with each other there? In other words, what would make someone choose one over the other (TL vs 'Amy G4)?
ackcontrols22 form factor
Bernd hehe
wegster ackcontrols: the TL is/will be ATX, no?
wegster or is that still up in air/not finalized?
wegster as well as # of pci slots, etc?
NomadOfNorad ackcontrol22: Any miniITX or MicroATX mobos in the works?
jorge ...and integrated components on the board ?
ackcontrols22 NoN: Not at the moment.
sundown wegster: whoever comes out first?
ackcontrols22 jorge: this is a pure expansion slot type board, aimed at devs
Guest285 do you plan on taking preorders on your products..when the time comes???
NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: Will there be case-badges with the boing-ball on them, or a PV logo, for users to place on their cases?
wegster ackcontrols22: so TL is still ATX? With how many PCI slots?
ackcontrols22 ATX
Amiga_3k NoN: I'd get it even if it came with Windows badges
Guest285
Guest285 We'd just scrap them off !!!
ackcontrols22 I PCI-e slot, 1 dedicated 66MHz slot, 4 PCI slots @ 33/66.
tarbos ack: are the 4 pci slots 3.3v keyed?
jorge Will you offer or bundle a USB/IDE combo board for the PCI/66 ? How does one know, which board will work ?
NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: You could provide a neat little sticker that says "Optimised for AmigaOS4" with the mobos.
ackcontrols22 jorge: that will be left up to dealers to arrange
NomadOfNorad You know, like those old stickers that say "Optimised for Windows XP" or whatever.
jorge ThePCIeis still a 1 lane, right ?
ackcontrols22 jorge: yes
jorge Do you have any feedback, which board will run with it yet ? X300 (or what else can we expect. I know,that's more a SW question.But did you guys have talks about that already?)
wegster ackcontrols22: are there legacy ports on the TL, or will a working USB board need to be found first, for mouse and kb?
Argo__ Imagination Inside!
NomadOfNorad Intuition Inside!
ackcontrols22 wegster: The only legacy ports are the serial debug ports.
Yo An actual working licenced MoBo inside!
tarbos ack: are the 4 pci ports fully compatible to 5v keyed cards?
ackcontrols22 tarbos: The 4 pci slots allow 5V keyed cards.
wegster ackcontrols: so that would mean a working usb card driver must be found for it to work with OS4. Who will select and develop a driver for such a board, or other options?
ackcontrols22 wegster: I'll likely handle any drivers required.
wegster ackcontrols: and, at least on the A1s, a system crash is unrecoverable via cold or warm reboots as the usb stack in the OS dies, anything different there with the TL or the TL version of uBoot, to allow a cold reboot in the event of an OS crash?
wegster (clarification- some system crashes).
jorge ackcontrols22: if you say you will provide drivers, will you at least release a list of reference boards which will be supported by the driver
ackcontrols22 wegster: I'm not quite at that level of running.
NomadOfNorad ackcontrols22: so, no ps/2 connectors? just usb?
ackcontrols22 jorge: yes, I'll support dealers that way, but the idea is to let them locally source what they need
ackcontrols22 no ps2
wegster ackcontrols22: ok, fair enough. Is a valid problem for the 'fantasy styled case' as well as any usb only board, be interesting to see how that works out.
ackcontrols22 wegster: Not really, use USB k/b and attach k/b to header on mobo.
wegster ackcontrols22: yes, but when the os crashes, uboot or other f/w would need to handle the cold resets, no? WHich it doesn't appear to do, currently..?
ackcontrols22 wegster: I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there.
wegster ok.
ackcontrols22 I have to run.....time for one last question.
wegster ackcontrols22: so, when, besides Tuesdays pictures, can we expect any futher/additional, or even summarize in one place, info from you?
NomadOfNorad plus a copy of the chat transcript, presumably.
jorge Not much to ask for me. Thx for your time Adam and good luck to get the board done (ASAP):)
wegster anyone else, jump in if they have something 'more urgent', but hoping to avoid another *poof* periond from ACK..
wegster NomadOfNorad: I or someone else will log and provide the irc...adam, am assuming is ok to publish the log..
ackcontrols22 wegster: I will provide updates every two weeks and be available in chat around that time.
SLayeRDK hes on the site, hes not unreachable :)
Amiga_3k Adam, get some sleep and then solve the probs. Hope something will materialize in the not so distant future.
ackcontrols22 Amiga_3k: Thanks.
ackcontrols22 later....
Helgy ackcontrols22: Thank you, I hope we see a new board soon, I can't wait!
Jeffshepherd Thanks for tonights chat ack
Guest651 thanks for answering the Q's Adam
* ackcontrols22 has quit (Quit: )
wegster ok, thanks Adam.
wegster oops, too late.


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wegster 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 21:39:20
#5 ]
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Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

Some Highlights of above:
1. Pictures from ACK no later than Tuesday on AW.
2. Problems with CPU card throughput, not yet chased down.
3. PV to have Mobility Radeon 7500, 32MB, max 512MB RAM.
4. TL to have max 2GB RAM, 2 PCI busses, mobo to be sold seperately for ~ $650 minus CPU, or with 1.7GHz CPU for $1100-$1200. No changes = nothing onboard, no SATA, PATA/ATA/IDE, sound, but to provide USB drivers. I PCI-e slot (1x lane), 1 dedicated 66MHz slot, 4 PCI slots @ 33/66.
5. PV LT terminator (to allow run standalone) to be available after PV TL.
6. Adam to provide updates every two weeks.

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Hans 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 21:43:29
#6 ]
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Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4876
From: New Zealand

@wegster

Thanks for th IRC log & summary. It's a shame that technical issues got in the way of the demo yet again but it sounds like progress is being made. At least the specs sound roughly finalized (i.e., haven't changed).

Hans

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T_Bone 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 21:46:50
#7 ]
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Posts: 3043
From: here To: there

@wegster

Quote:

wegster wrote:
Some Highlights of above:
1. Pictures from ACK no later than Tuesday on AW.
2. Problems with CPU card throughput, not yet chased down.
3. PV to have Mobility Radeon 7500, 32MB, max 512MB RAM.
4. TL to have max 2GB RAM, 2 PCI busses, mobo to be sold seperately for ~ $650 minus CPU, or with 1.7GHz CPU for $1100-$1200. No changes = nothing onboard, no SATA, PATA/ATA/IDE, sound, but to provide USB drivers. I PCI-e slot (1x lane), 1 dedicated 66MHz slot, 4 PCI slots @ 33/66.
5. PV LT terminator (to allow run standalone) to be available after PV TL.
6. Adam to provide updates every two weeks.



7. pete sex?

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wegster 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 21:51:09
#8 ]
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@T_Bone
yes, errr, that was one of the more technical irc users asking a question in code, of course!

Well, ok, or he wandered into the wrong channel ,I expect he was looking for #thefarmyard

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redfox 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 22:36:14
#9 ]
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From: Canada

@wegster

Thanks for releasing the IRC session log.

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Plaz 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 23:23:02
#10 ]
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Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1566
From: Atlanta

@wegster

Thanks for that summary. I was getting a little crossed eyed about half way through the full IRC log. I wish the project luck. If ACK can open up other markets for the PV boards by going with openbios, then the rest of us may see better prices hardware in the future.

Plaz

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wolfe 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 23:37:09
#11 ]
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@wegster

for the summery . . That was a much easier read. . .

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Teddy 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 23:53:08
#12 ]
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Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 395
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@wegster

Yeah, thanks for the log.

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tomazkid 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 10-Jun-2006 23:57:16
#13 ]
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Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

@wegster

Thanks

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number6 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 11-Jun-2006 0:47:40
#14 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10463
From: In the village

@pixie

Excellent work here on the formatted log:
http://steve.amigaworld.net/Temp/ack_log.html
Much thanks!

@_Steve_

Kudos to you too!

Is it my imagination or did wegster get this log edited and into this thread
about 3 seconds after he said he was going to start work on it?

#6

Last edited by number6 on 11-Jun-2006 at 12:53 AM.

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pixie 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 11-Jun-2006 1:01:38
#15 ]
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Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2655
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@number6

You're welcome!

I would just like to thank _steve_ for hosting it, and obviously wegster for having shared his log.

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Rudei 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 11-Jun-2006 9:55:46
#16 ]
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Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3576
From: Dallas, Texas

@pixie

Good work Pixie

Rude!

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jorkany 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 11-Jun-2006 14:46:58
#17 ]
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Joined: 1-May-2005
Posts: 919
From: Space Coast

@wegster
Quote:
gold Ack would you please ship the two fried Amy05's you were contracted to work on in 2005?
...
ackcontrols22 a1200/Gold/Troka: The tsi107 based boards are around somewhere.


Huh??

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wegster 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 11-Jun-2006 14:57:58
#18 ]
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Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@jorkany

Quote:

jorkany wrote:
@wegster
Quote:
gold Ack would you please ship the two fried Amy05's you were contracted to work on in 2005?
...
ackcontrols22 a1200/Gold/Troka: The tsi107 based boards are around somewhere.


Huh??



Dunno. Sounds like at some pooint Adam was working on 'Amy', and I guess had a pair of them?

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ironfist 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 11-Jun-2006 15:35:40
#19 ]
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Joined: 26-Dec-2004
Posts: 770
From: Pegasos.org

The one-million-dollar-question;
Will this fit inside a 1U-case or will the CPU-card make it too high?

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_Steve_ 
Re: ACK IRC Session Log from 6/10/06
Posted on 11-Jun-2006 15:49:15
#20 ]
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Joined: 17-Oct-2002
Posts: 6719
From: UK

@number6

Wegster did an amazing job getting the log up so quickly, as did pixie with his wonderfully formatted version.

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