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IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 23-Sep-2006 16:01:27
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

As reported in the Pianeta Amiga show schedule here:

At 05:30pm there will be an irc session with Thomas Frieden of Hyperion. The session will be hosted on:
The session will be moderated by Andrea Palmatè

This is in about 1/2 hour folks.


This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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Re: IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 23-Sep-2006 17:00:51
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2002
Posts: 634
From: Unknown


Massimo Tantignone is there too.


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Re: IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 23-Sep-2006 17:43:54
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Apr-2003
Posts: 820
From: Fargo, ND, USA

Anybody got a log yet? I tried to join in, but I'm at work right now and forced to use the java irc client/firefox, which wasn't working very well.

...wait... what?

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Re: IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 23-Sep-2006 17:53:19
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2274
From: Unknown


Although the chat with Thomas ended, the conference continued with Andrea Vallinotto and Massimo Tantignone. It's ending right now (they are being kicked out of the fair ground, basically )

edit: here's a first log (lines are un-ordered yet - volunteers welcome ):

afxgroup: Welcome brothers to the IRC chat session, thank you for coming (AndreaV speaking)
afxgroup: We might see Massimo too, if he mastered the secrets of IRC.
afxgroup: ok, let's start with the questions
afxgroup: jahc: question for Thomas: Are you guys working on SMP capability for OS4? Or will that not be possible until a dual cpu board is out? (sounds like a chicken and egg situation)
EntilZha: There are plans for SMP, but these are for the time after OS 4.0
afxgroup: ssolie: Once 4.0 is finished, what are the plans for 4.1 and beyond?
EntilZha: Well, for 4.1, we plan a lot of improvements and even replacements for current components. For example, there's likely to be a completely new graphics system, Workbench, etc... and of course, we want to add functionality to the other components...
afxgroup: _PAB_: As we already read, AmigaOS was ported to PowerPC 440 and the Samantha runs UBoot 1.4.4 - does that mean, that AmigaOS4 development for that board has already / can now / will be started ?
EntilZha: For example, The next big thing on the plate for Exec (in 4.1) is improvements in the scheduler (currently, most improvments are in the memory management area)
EntilZha: AmigaOS was ported for the 405, not the 440. But the equation 440 + UBoot = OS4 doesn't hold. The interaction between the firmware and the system is very small... the biggest issue is and remains drivers for the onboard hardware.
EntilZha: So yes, porting can be done now, but it doesn't mean it works automatically...
afxgroup: jahc: do you know if MUI4 is going to be ported to OS4?
EntilZha: I don't know, really.. sorry
EntilZha: Oh wait
EntilZha: Yes, it is
afxgroup: foody: What is the current situation with AmigaOS 4.0 and hardware problems?
EntilZha: I don't understand the question, really... what hardware problems are you referring to ?
afxgroup: foody: lack of it
EntilZha: Oh... well, like I said last week, there are several projects running, but as usual, we do not make press releases for other companies. You will have to wait for them to come out with information themselves... sorry
afxgroup: ntn:A question for Massimo Tantignone: are you planning any further improvements over Intuition?
mt: Yes :)
afxgroup: JurassicC:Another question for Massimo Tantignone: last week you mentioned there is a surpise coming up in intuition, can you comment on that surprise ?
mt: Actually, it was not me who said that ;) I think he referred to the new icon.library features (have they been disclosed at the show yet?).
EntilZha: I think it was disclosed, yes
afxgroup: yes, they are on show at Pianeta Amiga
afxgroup: so you can talk about it
mt: That doesn't mean there can't be other surprises in the future, of course.
mt: Good to know :)
afxgroup: ssolie: What is your opinion on this new SAM board and the possibilities with OS4 running on it?
EntilZha: If that's addressed at me: I like it, it's a nice entry-level hardware especially since it can run with passive cooling...
afxgroup: spot: what's been updated in aos4 since upd4? what's new?
EntilZha: Regarding OS4, I can't say anything... I don't know what the plans are... From a technical side, it's no problem
EntilZha: I don't think it's possible to list everything that changed since update 4. There's been a whole lot of bugfixing going on, and we've used the time to optimize some parts of the system
EntilZha: The new memory system, for example, uses memory pools that are up to 20 times faster than with the old system
afxgroup: AlexC: Q: will we see an OS4 port of Rockstar's GTA series some day? If not, what other games may be ported over that can be disclosed atm?
EntilZha: The additional time we had made it possible to re-think and re-work a lot of stuff
EntilZha: Hyperion has currently no new game ports in the pipeline, at least nothing I am aware of.
afxgroup: Freddo: Alot has been commented on about Snap and Mesa for OS4. Any news?
EntilZha: Has it ? Regarding Mesa, we decided to put that on hold. The basic issue is that we need a graphics system that allows the 3d driver a bit more control, for example, about the graphics memory. This is difficult to do with the current system.
EntilZha: I can't really comment too much about this, since I'm not involved in either SNAP nor Mesa at the moment
afxgroup: Tomas-lap: Can you atleast say if porting of OS4 has started with any of these projects? No need to mention any company names here...
EntilZha: SNAP has been ported nearlly fully, to the best of my knowledge. Mesa was worked on at one point, but as I said, I'm not fully aware of it's current status
afxgroup: Fair Ground:When will you release and updated SDK ?
EntilZha: A new SDK has been prepared just yesterday, but as usual, we will test it first... I would say two weeks
afxgroup: ID4: What is the state of OS4 for classic machines?
EntilZha: Basically the same as for AmigaOne. The basic difference is the driver support. Since some of the hardware expansions for Classic machines are, let's say, inventive, the support is diffuclut. Plus, most drivers are unfortunately not written correctly (meaning they don't take memory into account that is not mapped to the same physical address). This makes some of the original drivers useless,...
EntilZha: ...even though they work under emulation. In addition, the different cache line size of 68k and PPC makes it difficult to use old drivers.
afxgroup: Fair Ground:Will there be an updated warp3d release?
EntilZha: There will be an updated Radeon driver, fixing the known bugs. Don't ask for an ETA, though
afxgroup: PaoloBrini: The presence on Samantha of a LatticeXP FPGA gives great expansion chances. What is your opinion about such possibilities and can you say something about AmigaOS4 support?
EntilZha: I haven't looked into this yet. Currently, my time doesn't allow me to look at potential future projects...
afxgroup: JurassicC: would it be possible to extend the functionality of grimreaper / compatibilty prefs so if a application crashes / takes down os4 it can be automatically blacklisted.
EntilZha: That would be possible, yes... I'll forward that to the people involved...
afxgroup: JurassicC: will the updated radeon driver fix the 8500 / 9100 problems ? These work under morphos now.
EntilZha: Not that I know of. I'm not involved in the Radeon driver, so I can't comment...
afxgroup: ssolie: Any additional kernel features planned for 4.0 beyond the memory system upgrade?
EntilZha: For OS 4.0, no. The new memory system will be the "final" new feature.
afxgroup: kindergip: how about update tide us over and test some of the newer additions/refinements or at least an updated uboot
EntilZha: I can't decide on that, you will have to ask the Hyperion management... right now, to the best of my knowledge, no further update is planned
afxgroup: Flasheart: Question: Roughly how much of your working weeks is spent on OS4, do you have to put a lot of time in to other Hyperion projects
EntilZha: Right now, we are working full time on OS4. Hans-Jörg and me are currently not working on other Hyperion projects
afxgroup: AlexC: Q: will we see an OS4 port of Rockstar's GTA series some day? If not, what other games may be ported over that can be disclosed atm?
* EntilZha coughs
EntilZha: Ask Rockstar games ;)
afxgroup: _bladez_: will amigaos get an auto software update feature ala mac os x via software update and linux via it's various package managers.
EntilZha: We currently use Amiupdate for updating beta versions. In theory, this could be used to update the system after release, too... if such a thing is planned, I don't know... again, that is for the Hyperion management and the AmiUpdate author to decide
EntilZha: I would like to see AmiUpdate in the final OS4, to be honest... it's damn useful
afxgroup: spotUP: has there been any improvements to uboot?
EntilZha: There was some experiemntal fix for the PCI problem on the MicroA1. Don't ask me if it's ready for release though
afxgroup: please hold off making further questions, our queue is full.
afxgroup: Guest735: Whilst I appreciate it's a rather hypothetical question at the moment as no single-core hardware is available for AmigaOS at present, how feasible would it be to get the Amiga kernel running SMP (either multicore or multiprocessor)
EntilZha: The problem with multiple cores/CPUs with the current system is the semantic of Forbid/Permit. The original system, some system components, and a lot of software us it as a cheap single-threading mechanism... Of course, this doesn't translate to multiple cores, since then, a Forbid would have to lock out all other cores from running if that semantic would have to be retained. This is clearly...
EntilZha: ...not a desireable solution. We've given this problem some thought, but we are not planning this for 4.0, so it's rather hypothetical right now.
EntilZha: So we're posponing that for 4.1 and beyond
afxgroup: Fair ground:Andreas Loong, here at the fair, showed the "Panda" (ud-tech) board, and said it'll be sent to you soon. What can you tell us about it ?
EntilZha: Ask me again when I have it ;)
afxgroup: Flasheart: Question: Roughly how much of your working weeks is spent on OS4, do you have to put a lot of time in to other Hyperion projects
EntilZha: See above, already ansered that
afxgroup: JurassicC: Has OS4 porting started on any of the new hardware without commenting on any specific company names
EntilZha: No comment. Sorry, see above...
afxgroup: Fair Ground:A question to Massimo:do you plan to add mouse wheel support in other Reaction classes?
mt: Where it is feasible and useful, yes. There will probably be some further support in Intuition allowing to do that in a simpler way.
afxgroup: HMK: Might be a too philosophical question, but how do you personally think that OS4 has turned out so far? Has OS4 so far turned out the way you wanted to see it originally and is it going in that direction?
EntilZha: Yes. In some ways, it's turned out to be even better than we originally thought.
EntilZha: Most of all, it was absolutely great working with this team.
afxgroup: ne last question for Thomas:
afxgroup: PaoloBrini: Finally lack of hardware will not be an issue within a few months. Do you think that, that premise given, we can see a final version of AmigaOS4 simoultaneously with the starting of Samantha (or other board) mass production?
EntilZha: The thing to happen for OS4 to be released is _availability_ of hardware, that is, you should be able to actually order a machine with OS4 in a shop. As such, the final version depends on the mass production of hardware.
EntilZha: So, it's not the availability of prototypes... they are available right now...
EntilZha: You need to be able to buy them
EntilZha: (them = hardware capable of running OS4)
afxgroup: We thank Thomas for participating to the chat
afxgroup: he has to leave but
afxgroup: Massimo and AndreaV will be here answering some more questions
afxgroup: please start asking questions to them
EntilZha: Ok, I'm off then. Thanks for the interest
* EntilZha bows
afxgroup: Ciao Thomas!
EntilZha: Bye
AndreaV: Hello people!
AndreaV: Samantha is beautiful
afxgroup: saimo: (for Massimo) How much advantage does the current graphical system takes of the GPUs? Even a rough estimate will do.
mt: It depends on the driver, I guess. I'm not really an expert of the low-level parts of the graphic system, but I think 2D is rather well covered.
afxgroup: jahc: How much is the Samantha going to retail for?
mt: However, graphics.library and rtg.library don't take much advantage of the 3D capabilities of the graphic card at the moment.
AndreaV: the first batch, which will be in limited quantities, for developers, should retail for around 370-399 euros, plus local taxes
AndreaV: for the basic version
AndreaV: the card can be scaled to different configurations, depending on the demand
afxgroup: ju-sho: Who will port OS4 to Samantha? Will Hyperion do it or will you port it yourself (incl. drivers for say USB2 etc). Has there been some work done yet ? How long would that take?
AndreaV: I'm taking care of uboot (my personal curse)
AndreaV: most peripherals are already supported by OS4 (SATA, Radeon, Audio...)
AndreaV: USB is both OHCI and EHCI
AndreaV: OS4 has drivers for OHCI
AndreaV: the rest is upto Hyperion
afxgroup: jahc: I dont understand what you mean by "scaled to different configurations".. can you elaborate?
AndreaV: depending on demand, different CPUs and graphics chip, amount of memory and connectors can be added or removed
AndreaV: it's a system developed in a modular way
AndreaV: the moderator will be back soon
Lecta: please send your questions to me for now, thanksù
Lecta: ironfist::would it be possible to run MOS on Samantha?
afxgroup: klesterjr: (for Massimo) Can you elaborate on the new icon.libray?
AndreaV: about MOS:
AndreaV: the system is open to anyone who is willing to give support
afxgroup: PaoloBrini: is it possibile to port the libdha?
Lecta: AC::(for Massimo) Are there plans for moving the menu system into its own window so it don't lock the hole screen when visible?
AndreaV: libdha: sure, time permitting
mt: It does now support truecolor icons natively, and also external loader/saver modules for third-party icon formats. It can perform icon scaling (not used by the Workbench yet) and it has some further customization capabilities.
afxgroup: ironfist: Andrea: Most PPC Linux-distros (if not all?) are made for either Mac or Pegasos which means OpenFirmware. How hard will it be for the distributions to support your Uboot?
mt: AC: this feature is already available in Update 4, if I'm not mistaken. Set your menus to "non blocking".
AndreaV: "our" UBoot is nothing different than the mainstream uboot
AndreaV: which, lately, has added support for a flatted of-tree structure
AndreaV: as such, UBoot is rather well supported by Linux,
AndreaV: but it must be a recent version
afxgroup: ssolie: Who do you consider to be a "developer"? What about us bedroom coder types?
AndreaV: a bedroom code is a developer in every sense
AndreaV: as soon as he develops seriously and produces real stuff
Lecta: Ami603::having OS4 already drivers for the Silicon Image Serial Ata chipset, radeon chipset, what's missing for it to be fully supported(besides HAL)?
AndreaV: what is still to be done (driver-wise):
AndreaV: ethernet, serial, and the FPGA is we decide to support it under OS4
AndreaV: (warning at 19:00 we'll be off )
afxgroup: Desler582: which markets other amiga do you hope to introduce this board to?
AndreaV: (in 15 minutes)
AndreaV: embedded markets where OS4 and Linux can be used
AndreaV: pretty much everywhere where we can place it
afxgroup: spotUP: does porting sdl stuff make me a developer? :D
AndreaV: the card has been developed mainly for industrial customers
AndreaV: spotUP: yes, why not!
Lecta: JurassicC::are there any future plans for a hi end samantha with a high end G4 processor ?
AndreaV: no, but we're working on the "Moana" project that is geared towards the desktop market
Lecta: ok, guys, please stop with the questions, we are about to close doors.
AndreaV: many things must be cleared though, before this other project can take off
afxgroup: Dagon: is there a Samantha case (maybe with the Amiga name embossed upon it) in the plans?
AndreaV: it's planned, but yet completely defined. Priorities are elsewhere now
Lecta: mausle::Would you like to see AROS running on it?
AndreaV: yes, why not, same as MOS
AndreaV: btw: national italian television (RAI) showed up and took some interviews of the men behind Samantha
AndreaV: sorry guys but we must leave,
AndreaV: the fair ground is closing
AndreaV: and shutting down power. :-[
Orgin: Thanks AndreaV and Massimo.
AndreaV: if you want, you can come back tomorrow, in the morning same channel. Nothing is planned,
AndreaV: but hop in and check if we're around
AndreaV: we'll be glad to answer more questions time permitting
afxgroup: PS: thanks to m3x
AndreaV: byeee!
AndreaV: thanks
Lecta: Thank you very much for being with us, our time as ended... see you tomorrow... thanks to the developers.
mt: Goodbye, everyone!
Lecta: well, for today at least


Last edited by saimo on 23-Sep-2006 at 06:06 PM.

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Re: IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 23-Sep-2006 19:31:56
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Apr-2003
Posts: 820
From: Fargo, ND, USA


Thanks Saimo!!

I wonder what the "final" price for Samantha will be... $370 Euro's = $474 USD, and probably add $100 USD for OS4 and your already at $600, which is kinda spendy...

...wait... what?

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Re: IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 24-Sep-2006 10:42:42
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

Stop complaining, you can't have your cake AND eat it. Translation: We'll be lucky to get any hardware at all, let alone cheaply, so you better learn to live with "expensive" mobos for the time being. Personally I think that £300 ($600) is perfectly reasonable for a niche-market mobo. Hell, I probably paid more for my BlizzardPPC add-in-card.

Author of the PortablE programming language.
I can usually be found on (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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Re: IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 24-Sep-2006 11:18:36
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8042


the price quote you heard is for the first batch of boards...just for developers (ie the OS etc), the price should go down after that , but who knows

But i think its too early to complain as we dont know jack #### yet.

See my blog and collection website! .

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Re: IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 24-Sep-2006 13:54:24
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2003
Posts: 1188
From: Unknown


$600 is cool. Remember this is a niche platform.

When is something going to ship?

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Re: IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 25-Sep-2006 4:20:13
# ]


My head is spinning, and my brain will explode!

Sooooo many announcements.... fast and furious!!!!

Amiga is B A C K!!!!

Minor complaint, no Altivec. Cure; Moana!

Can you folks feel the fever yet?

AOS4.x can soon be in third place, behind windos and Linux.

AOS4.0 before vista? 2 to 3 Gigs of HD for vista?? Hahahahah!!!!!

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Re: IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 25-Sep-2006 5:09:19
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-May-2003
Posts: 2959
From: Auckland, New Zealand


I wonder what the "final" price for Samantha will be... $370 Euro's = $474 USD, and probably add $100 USD for OS4 and your already at $600, which is kinda spendy...

It's not so bad when you consider you're getting an onboard radeon and onboard ram. It might be possible that OS4 is factored into that price too. And like someone else pointed out, when its manufactured in bigger quantities, the price could come down.

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Re: IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 25-Sep-2006 5:10:59
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-May-2003
Posts: 2959
From: Auckland, New Zealand


Amiga is B A C K!!!!

Not yet it isnt. We need hardware shipping with OS4 final first. And a lot of software too.

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Re: IRC chat with Thomas Frieden
Posted on 25-Sep-2006 6:45:08
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 19-Jul-2006
Posts: 104
From: Australia


i agree

Cheers! proud owner of an A1 running OS4 pre.ver4
Hyperion + other developers take a bow

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