For those interested in a quick 2 cents on XP vs VISTA

VISTA is slightly nicer then XP. Windows and interface is cleaner, search tools are better, and if you love the Mac there are gadgets which are similar. TCP/IP stack has been redone and almost any connection speed to your desktop shows improved performance for browsing and downloading. Performance analysis tools are improved and users are seperated better.

If you run XP there's little reason to change. XP will still work with many apps for a while and new Direct X 10 games will be slowly trickling out over the next 2 years.

If you are getting a new computer there's little reason to not run Vista. Yes it's slightly slower in some situations but it's the future for Microsoft. If you plan on using an MS Desktop OS get the latest as it'll give you alonger life.

@Esquilax

My point was you can get a Core Duo processor that is a 2 core 32-bit processor system that is not 64-bit.. Solo or duo is how they descirbe how many cores are present.. That doesn't mean you are 64-bit however, and that's why I mentioned the "Core 2" spec.. AMD doesn't have this confusing issue on the naming convention (they call it something else like sempron for their 32bit offerings)..


The main reason I switched to Vista is improved hardware rendering of WPF (aka winFX) applications..

Some good examples (and they run on XP with .net 3.0 also) are..

A very cool GPS based snowboarding app that you can download

http://www.metaliq.com/wpf/




and for you GERMAN shoppers

Check out OTTO

http://www.otto.de/vista



All of these feature the new 2d and 3d features and are quite cool..

Last edited by DonnieA2 on 11-Feb-2007 at 12:32 AM.

@DonnieA2

Refer to http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/201
for K8 Semprons with X64 enabled.

Last edited by Hammer on 11-Feb-2007 at 06:42 AM.

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@jiyong

Quote:

Are you sure we can "drag our screens" with Vista? You can juggle with them, but drag? And shouldn't that be "drag our Windows"?

No no no I didn't mean with vista that has the 3d window thingy I ment we as in we Amigans can drag our screens.

Well from a users point of view i have as much of an informed opinion as one could have as ive been running a copy of vista in one form or another since beta1. Starting on a VM with beta1 up to the full version on my primary entertainment PC at home from early november when it was released for business. Downloading vista is pretty much the only thing ive used the MSDN license via work for so far

I think the whole 'super computer required to run it' is unjustified, my PC has a number of years under its belt already, 2 or possibly 3 i think, with the only substantial upgrade a new gfx more then a year ago now i believe which in itself is way behind current spec by a few generations. I started running it with 1Gb ram and never had an issue at all, and im only running 1.5Gb now because i found half a gig laying around doing nothing, im currently using around half a gig and rarely go above 650Mb i guess. So my current setup is as such: p4 2.8, 1.5Gb ram and an ati radeon x800, all are pretty average by todays standards, vista rates my hardware with a 3.9 out of ten and as far as hardware speed goes it works bloody well. So no more whining about required specs and considering its the overall user experience that matters i wouldnt care if it did require what everyone thinks it does.

A for the look, um running vista ultimate with all the bells and whistles, i was a little hesitant at first but after i got used to the look it feels alot better then XP. The visuals all work well together (a few uneeded anims here and there) and is tidy and easy to use even with my old gfx card.

So, would i recommend it to others??? Oh hell no! Even if it were free for all i would still say the same, and ill be going back to XP in the coming weeks when i find the time. And the reason why is simple... If i had the time i would look thru my post history to find something i posted many years ago regarding why i like the amiga where one of my points was just USING workbench feels great, browsing the file system and manageing my folders and such was a pleasure. Vista has just gone way backwards from XP in this regard, i find it draining to use windows explorer in vista. Today trying to copy some pics from a usb key across to a hard drive, i just got so frustrated i gave up and had to walk away, even after alot of previous effort to very specifically configure explorer it still tries to second guess me and decide how it thinks i want to see a folder full of pics, it came up with thumbnails which were taking sooooooo long to load (with no reasonable reason?) that i switched back to the details view but it now figured i wanted the photo specific columns and attempting to read extended info up to 3 times!?! it just crawled to the point where when attempting to even load a pic to view took minutes... So a fun photo viewing session with my girl was just ruined with the both of us ending up rather annoyed. Little things like these are happening all too often plus a number of unexplained software issues leave me feeling the OS is just unpolished as is. There are good things about it that i do like and my issues are probably specific to my style and expectations of what I want my PC to do, I'll prob try again when the drivers are more mature in a few months in the hopes that the experience is worthy then but right now i think the best solution would be XP with a vista skin. I think ill give XP media centre edition a quick shot next.

Or... just give me OS4 on x86 with HDTV card and current browser.

It doesn't matter if Vista is good or not. It won't matter if it used its resources well or if it needs a bulked-up system to be usable.
People will still use it because it's the only OS that "exists" for the majority of computer users.
No one will say "I don't want to use this crap!" and switch to another system.
Windows IS computing, for 95% of the computer population.

I'll stick with AOS4, thank you.

Why all these bloody threads/posts about the Microsoft operating system? Isn't this just blatant advertising/product placement? Shouldn't these threads be deleted and Microsoft told to buy advertising space on amigaworld.net?

Keep Amigaworld.net for Amiga OSes!

@RedMelons

Quote:

Why all these bloody threads/posts about the Microsoft operating system? Isn't this just blatant advertising/product placement? Shouldn't these threads be deleted and Microsoft told to buy advertising space on amigaworld.net? Keep Amigaworld.net for Amiga OSes!

Funny !! Not...

First; Should I give you a warning for trolling then ? If you have nothing to contribute about the topic don't post, I'm a bit suprised to see this from you.

Second, if you are refering to the last threads by BBRV and some others that have been removed. You don't know the whole background and you don't have to know it either. If you have a problem with moderatiom see the TOS. Don't bother asking about the reasons, if the team wants to disclose that we will do that in public.

Third, where do you see Bill Gates posting about his OS ? No, only users...

Quote:

Moderation: A moderators say is final. When a moderation decision is made the moderator will document why either in private message or at the place where moderation occurred. This in most cases will be accompanied by reference to which Terms Of Service have been broken. Moderators are allowed to use their discretion in interpretation of the Terms Of Service and operate outside of the Terms Of Service where they see a need to intervene. Where you disagree, or feel unfairness is an issue, see Ajudication. Ajudication: Whilst AmigaWorld.net moderation tries to be fair and balanced sometimes errors can occur. If you disagree with a specific instance where you have been moderated then please put your complaint to the Webmaster, an Administrator or another moderator for consideration and possible action. Arguments about specific moderation incidents are not tolerated on the public forum, use the adjudication process open to you.

@All
Stay on topic. Moderators decide if a thread is allowed or not. See the TOS. Ignore the post by Redmelons please, I left it because I don't recall Redmelons to troll before, perhaps it was ment as a joke, it's not real funny.

Last edited by Seer on 11-Feb-2007 at 11:54 AM.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@BrandonLee

We will be reviewing a copy of Vista at our next Amiga meeting. So far I am not impressed but then I own OS4.0 final and realize how NICE an OS can be.

A bigger OS (512MB), IMHO, is not neccessarily better. When you can port a small OS to more applications, then I am impressed. (i.e. small OS - OS4.0 and even Palm.)

I guess my question is why keep building new OS's that require more RAM, more harddrive space and higher end components. I ran the test on AMD's site and my Dual Xeon VT4 didn't pass the graphics card testt. WOW! I had 128MB RAM on the graphics card and now I need 256MB. Sorry Bill, you will have to get someone elses $$$ this time.


WOW spelled backwards is WOW. WOW spelled upside down is MOM. WOW without the first W is "OW".

test on AMD's site

Last edited by TallAmigan on 11-Feb-2007 at 12:32 PM.

_________________
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
-- Albert Einstein

@TallAmigan

The only thing Windows is clearly better than Amiga is the software base.
If you could use all Windows software on AmigaOS4, people would see the light. ;)

The Only WOW i got was the HUGE price tag for the operating system

Further more the hardware specs are insaine for a operating system.
For starters i have a 2 Ghz athlon XP 2600 wit 1 GB RAM, 60 GB HD, Nvidia FX5200 gfx card.

I tried one of the release canidates and damn...... it was so slow that i swiftly rolled back to server 2003 for windoze OS.

Then think that my PC qualifies as a 'premium vista PC'

The minimum vista specs are:

A modern processor (at least 800MHz¹).
512 MB of system memory.
A graphics processor that is DirectX 9 capable.

Vista 'permium specification' :

1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor¹).
1 GB of system memory.
Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum)², Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.
40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
DVD-ROM Drive³.
Audio output capability.
Internet access capability.

OS4 maybe needs expensive custom build hardware but at least it is fast

_________________
Amiga is additive coz it is fun to use

@Mr-Z

Quote:

I tried one of the release canidates and damn...... it was so slow that i swiftly rolled back to server 2003 for windoze OS

Release Canidates are not the final form. RC2 was hands down faster then RC1. The final version is noticeably faster then RC2.

I have been using various Debian installs on my _second_ PC and have slowly been adjusting myself to Linux, mainly in preparation for me *NOT* installing Vista. I think we all know the pros and cons of this new Windows release by now and it's clear where Microsoft seem to be taking their OS framework. To me this Vista is the clear beginnings of a very restrictive Big Brother-like computing experience and I for one am not buying into it. All this DRM, attempting to tie software to specific hardware ids, attempting to kill-off the wonderful and established OpenGL API with Aero and other popular GPL-cross platform APIs, etc, etc. It's all too much. This is why I have just ordered a new Harddrive for my main dual CPU (which Lnx supports FULLY) workstation and will be installing Debian/Ubuntu as my MAIN booting OS. XP will remain as my 2nd booting OS for the very few apps I need to use which Linux doesn’t offer.

For me MS’s ideal is not what computing is about; I'm an Amigan used to a real thin-layer OS which is unobtrusive and humble - not a BULLYING operating system which is in your face telling you what you can and can't do with software you have PAID for. That's my opinion, you're free to disagree.

Really, my point is that even Vista may be bearable but you can expect future MS OSs to continue this trend and become even more suffocating. This is why I'm moving over to Linux now, because I’m pretty sure I see what the future holds. And with distros such as Ubuntu - which is just as easy to use/install as WinXP and available FREE of charge - I have to ask why anyone would continue to submit to MS's demands? After all, we are seasoned Amiga users, we know how to use computers and we are not impressed by eye-candy, preemptive autotext sensing and directory browsing, driver certificates, etc. And we are certainly not impressed when we buy an item of software or entertainment media only to have an OS dictate HOW it can be used. In fact these things are more of a hindrance to our computing and are only really there for MS (in colusion with other companies), who wish to control what we can and can’t do with our PCs.

It’s been a long time coming, but it really is time to move over to Linux for me.

Last edited by hatty on 11-Feb-2007 at 04:50 PM.

Unless you are running the Basic version of Vista (why bother?!?), you want at least 1GB of RAM (some have suggested 2GB!), and of course a fancy 3D card, a load of HD space.

And if you ever hope to watch an HD-DVD or BlueRay disc, you better make sure your gfx-card, monitor & cable support DRM.... (Although I understand that virtually none of the gfx-cards or monitors supports the necessary standards yet, so don't bother even trying.)

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Okay I actually feel I can contribute something now without going off topic

Quote:

And if you ever hope to watch an HD-DVD or BlueRay disc, you better make sure your gfx-card, monitor & cable support DRM.... (Although I understand that virtually none of the gfx-cards or monitors supports the necessary standards yet, so don't bother even trying.)

We already have laptops like the new HP Pavilion dv9000t which has HD-DVD built in and an HDMI/DVI port built into it. Wouldn't it be cool to see something like this running OS4? I even have an LCD-TV that is DVI based that supports HDCP.

As for software Cyberlink's PowerDVD ultra supports drives that offer HD-DVD or blu-ray playback (as well as the interactive features)

see for details:

http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/products/main_112_ENU.html

Of course the minimal specs for the graphics card are:

nVidia: GeForce 7600 GT, GeForce 7800 GTX 512, GeForce 7900 GX2, GeForce 7900 GTX, GeForce 7950 GX2
ATI: X1600 series, X1800 series, X1900 series
Video RAM: Graphics card memory requires 256 MB or above

Minimum CPU: Pentium 4 541 3.2 GHz, Pentium D 840 3.2 GHz, Pentium D 930 3.0 GHz or 940 3.2 GHz, Core Duo T2400 1.83 GHz, Pentium M 755 2.0 GHz Pentium EE 840 3.2 GHz or 955 3.4 GHz, Pentium D 945 3.4 GHz, 950 3.4 GHz or 960 3.6 GHz, Core Duo T2500 2.0 GHz, T2600 2.16 GHz or T2700 2.33 GHz, Core 2 Duo E6300 1.8 GHz, E6400 2.13 GHz, E6600 2.4 GHz, E6700 2.66 GHZ or X6800 2.93 GHz

and of course the display:

HDCP (High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection) compliant display for digital output
TV or computer monitor for analog output

In other words no HDCP required on a Computer Monitor.. So all isn't lost..

@_Steve_

Start Price in New Zealand Dollars is approximately, $200 academic, $250 home basic, $300 for home premium, $600 for "Business" installs and $980 for Ultimate where you unlock everything...

I still remember the initial release of Win95 being cheaper than the academic price now and the academic price was more reasonable...

I wonder if anyone has NOT seen the M$ great white fin and the marketing crud with the slogan for TV crap...

I still find it utterly laughable that I can make a computer system with ALL the Vista Ultimate feature set I have seen within a budget of less than the total price of the Vista Ultimate OS package...

Im writing into Click@bbc.co.uk with a suggestion they actually go head to head with the different licenses... as the Vista license *appears* to only sell the right for use and still has the "dont come calling on us when things go wrong" disclaimer at the beginning...

the whole "no warranty and all rights reserved" crap

@DonnieA2

For me it is proof of poor design that you need a new OS version for better rendering. Oh well, probably a decision by the marketing department.

@jiyong

It's not poor design when you have completely new capabilities and a graphics subsystem behind it. It's the best thing I have seen and started programming since Amiga's graphics many years ago.

And yes, some of you might have guessed it, if you didn't I am not really DonnieA2, I am secretly "the Bill" here to hock my wares because I am so jealous of the Amiga and it's users.. I have nothing better to do now that I am a world-wide education oriented philanthropists, besides going on TV shows and signing copies of my OS (whew it tires me out just thinking about it)..

You all know I am out to get you, because I have nothing better to do but talk on a forum that is focused on a great multi-tasking OS and yes I secretly have subverted all hardware development for the platform, it's part of my master plan first Gateway, now well you know...

INSERT EVIL MONOPOLISTIC LAUGH HERE..

BWAHHH HAHHH HAAHHH HAAA!

Last edited by DonnieA2 on 12-Feb-2007 at 03:17 AM.

Quote:

TallAmigan wrote: @BrandonLee We will be reviewing a copy of Vista at our next Amiga meeting. So far I am not impressed but then I own OS4.0 final and realize how NICE an OS can be. A bigger OS (512MB), IMHO, is not neccessarily better. When you can port a small OS to more applications, then I am impressed. (i.e. small OS - OS4.0 and even Palm.) I guess my question is why keep building new OS's that require more RAM, more harddrive space and higher end components. I ran the test on AMD's site and my Dual Xeon VT4 didn't pass the graphics card testt. WOW! I had 128MB RAM on the graphics card and now I need 256MB. Sorry Bill, you will have to get someone elses $$$ this time. WOW spelled backwards is WOW. WOW spelled upside down is MOM. WOW without the first W is "OW". test on AMD's site

AMD's test did not factor in the shared graphics memory (AGP memory) in addition to dedicated video memory.

Mobility X700 (128MB dedicated + 384MB shared graphics memory) runs smoothly with Vista Ultimate and Aero Glass.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@Mr-Z

Quote:

Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum)², Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.

Vista Ultimate's (Retail) Aero Glass does run on AMD Mobility Radeon with 64MB dedicated video memory** @ 1400x1050x32bit resolution. I tested both with Vista’s built-in Radeon drivers and Catalyst Driver 7.1 (Vista).

**AGP memory is now treated as shared video memory (similar to Hypermemory or TurboCache). The total graphics memory for this test laptop is 191 MB.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB