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AmigaMac 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 3:41:52
#61 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 1010
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

@Hammer

Core 2 core issues 4 instructions per cycle. AMD64 issue 3 instructions per cycle.

PPC 970 FX (aka G5) can serve up to 8 instructions per cycle, so what's the real bragging rights here, really?!

@DrBombcrater

You have yet to make a valid (nor powerful) argument here other than show a true bias towards whatever x86 silliness you keep preaching.

If PowerPC sucks so darn bad, why are all the game consoles (Xbox 360, PS3 and the Wii) using it?
And why are you wasting your precious time and worthy AW bytes on the x86 versus PPC debate in the first place; this argument will never be won by anybody, plain and simple!

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herewegoagain 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 3:42:00
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC

@Jorge

Within the scope of the Amiga OS, this is the best CPU option bar none. I'll be extremely pleased if this is indeed what the high end board is based upon.

I don't recall the last time I heard a user ask "what's the SpecInt2000"? when making a computer purchase. The most common questions are how many Gigahertz is it? How much RAM? What hard drive size? DVD-RW 16X Dual Layer? I hardly think this CPU would perform so poorly that everyone longs for their old 060 again.







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CodeSmith 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 4:42:30
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@herewegoagain

This CPU has twice the L2 cache and five times the memory bandwidth of a 7448 (200MHz vs 1066MHz memory bus), and runs at 2GHz. It's going to make an AmigaOne XE look like an A1200 (speed: 2GHz vs 800MHz; L2 cache: 2MB vs 256KB; memory bus: 1066MHz vs 133MHz)

Last edited by CodeSmith on 06-May-2007 at 04:58 AM.

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herewegoagain 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 5:20:47
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC

@CodeSmith

Yeah, I know. I've been reading about it for some time now. Just trying to make a point.

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CodeSmith 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 5:30:41
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@herewegoagain

Sorry if I'm starting to sound like Helgis, but this has me pretty excited. I fervently hope that the Amiga Inc/Hyperion squabble doesn't f*k this up.

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Steff 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 5:37:24
#66 ]
Super Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 1342
From: Unknown

@ackcontrls

Sounds cool!

If this system should make it to market any time soon and can run OS 4 (or something extremely similar) then I will certainly buy one.

I'll even make you a deal!

If you can produce these boards to sell by, let's say the end of this summer/beginning fall, then I'll buy two. That's a promise! (I'm assuming a price tag that doesn't run off towards the ridiculous).

There you go two guaranteed sales already! Now all you have to do is ramp up the production!

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stianstr 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 6:10:36
#67 ]
Member
Joined: 25-May-2006
Posts: 55
From: Narvik, Norway

Man, I hope there is some truth to this...

I'm sure gonna buy one :)

Heck I'll buy the low-end system too... :)

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Hammer 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 6:49:58
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@AmigaMac

Quote:
PPC 970 FX (aka G5) can serve up to 8 instructions per cycle, so what's the real bragging rights here, really?!

Not quite... PowerPC 970's front end can dispatch/issue 4 instructions + 1 branch instruction. It can fetch 8 instructions from it's instruction cache. Can you see the bottle neck? Another issue with PowerPC 970 is its 23 stage pipeline i.e. similar weakness as Pentium IV Northwood design.

Like Core 2, Pentium IV Pescott's front end can also issue 4 instructions, but with 31 stage pipeline depth. In most benchmarks, Core 2 kills Prescott. Both Core2 and AMD64 has medium depth pipelines.

AMD64 can issue (from the front end) up to 6 instructions** (integer operations only) i.e. two instructions per instruction issue slot. **Some X86 instructions are instruction packed.

Last edited by Hammer on 06-May-2007 at 07:09 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 06-May-2007 at 07:07 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 06-May-2007 at 06:56 AM.

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Hammer 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 7:35:46
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@AmigaMac

Quote:

If PowerPC sucks so darn bad, why are all the game consoles (Xbox 360, PS3 and the Wii) using it?

The price for the customisation. For X360, it's D3D dot product instruction. Such customised design didn't benefit the rest of the PPC vendors. You wouldn't see barebone PS3 motherboard cheaper than Sony's PS3. PPC market is disjointed like 68K PC market.

I don't think MS would like yet another Intel Celeron (Netburst) in it's next console....
AMD(ATI) is already capacity constrained and involved in X360's and Wii's GPUs.

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Hammer 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 7:48:14
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@herewegoagain

Quote:
I don't recall the last time I heard a user ask "what's the SpecInt2000"? when making a computer purchase. The most common questions are how many Gigahertz is it? How much RAM? What hard drive size? DVD-RW 16X Dual Layer? I hardly think this CPU would perform so poorly that everyone longs for their old 060 again.

Funny that the laptop PC sales will have >50 percent of the market share in Q1 2008 and it's lower clocked than Pentium IV 3Ghz...

Anyway, AMD64 was gaining market share against its clock speed bias competitor i.e. Intel's Pentium IV. AMD was stomped with lower clocked Core 2...

Last edited by Hammer on 06-May-2007 at 07:49 AM.

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Insanity 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 8:01:24
#71 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Aug-2005
Posts: 405
From: Sweden

@CodeSmith

Quote:
it looks like its founder was the head designer for the DEC Alpha




@hans

Great job, that was what I seemed to remember.

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Mrodfr 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 8:01:42
#72 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2007
Posts: 1396
From: French

hello,

I know nothing about cpu best than the other. My wish is to have a new amiga PPC for running AOS4 on (mean all working together for the amiga futur).

-I would like to use linux and maybe a mac emulator on the new amiga for the missing softwares (firefox, excel or word applications for example).

-The fact that having a low power consuption, and small heat inside the computer is verry important for me.

-I hope more than 1GHZ (1.2 to 1.4) is enough for that.

-I think a PCI express recent graphic card could help a lot.

-1go of ram semmed for me enough.

After the others specifications for me are details because my wish is really to see a new computer arrive with AOS4 of hyperion on that mean a gain ainc, hyperion, acube, ack,...... working together !!!!!!.

As you could see, I'm interested by a high end amiga PPC with AOS4 of hyperion ON. The prize for me isn't a problem because I'm waiting after the new computer with AOS4 on since years.

bye.

Thanks to ack for discuss with all, hyperion, ainc, acube, .... MUST DO the same.

Last edited by Mrodfr on 06-May-2007 at 08:02 AM.

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coze 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 8:11:57
#73 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Feb-2005
Posts: 35
From: Chiba, Japan

Am I the only one thinking that these new boards are just vapor to strengthen AInc case at the court ?

I won't believe any of this bull* until it's up here running on my desktop.

And, even if they did produce the board, how long do you think it will take to write the OS for it ? I think it will take a long, LONG time. If you think OS4 can be ported to this quickly, sorry but you're just dreaming. Also there's the problem that AInc doesn't have the OS4 sources, AFAIK.

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Insanity 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 8:22:14
#74 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Aug-2005
Posts: 405
From: Sweden

@coze

this is from the ack chat-thread and is regarding the low end system.

Quote:
[08:48:35] Cav ack: are the computers debugged and ready to go?
[08:48:39] ###ACKCONTROLS### Developer systems will be ready to ship to the select devs mid May'ish.


So I guess you will find out soon.

(had to remove > < from around "Cav" since it would be interpreted as a html-tag otherwize)

Last edited by Insanity on 06-May-2007 at 08:22 AM.

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If you are going to quote me, do so fully or not at all.
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Shadowolf 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 8:32:37
#75 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Mar-2005
Posts: 137
From: Germany

@ackcontrls
Quote:

Nothing is going to make DrBombcrater or ShadowWolf happy, unless they want OS4 on x86. So it's really not worth discussing anything with them.
Adam


That's a pretty sad way to argue.

And you are all not listening.

To make it clear, I would love to see a board with either the PA-6T or the MPC8641
becoming available to run OS4 with.

That does not change the facts though that these CPU were designed for
embedded applications and that it takes a lot of money to design a board around them.
Plus that these are still not available apart from samples.

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Hammer 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 8:43:45
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@CodeSmith

Quote:
You're falling into the familiar trap of comparing artificial benchmarks across cpu architectures. PPC and x86 instruction sets are so different that the only benchmarks that really count are wall-clock ones. I'd like to see comparisons of say the time it takes to do a ray trace, or to encode a certain piece of music into MP3. Then we can do meaningful comparisons.

Just recycle LAME encoder and Cinebench benchmarks.

Quote:

Wide range available? There are just a handful of NB chips than can talk Hypertransport, and in any case you're constrained by the 2000MT/s bandwidth so you can't just keep adding peripherals. The description of PCI express support is a bit confusing, but it sounds like you get what most x86 NBs give you: 1x16 and a few more lanes split between x8, x4, x2 and x1. Sure, you don't get 2x16 Crossfire support, but I think only one NB from NVidia supports that.

In relation to "only one NB from NVidia supports that"... AMD's (CrossFire) Xpress 3200 chipset (aka RD580) supports dual 16X PEG. AMD's RD580 supports up to 40 PCI-Express lanes. RD580 connects to AMD64 CPU via HTT.

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adiaux 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 9:15:38
#77 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@CodeSmith

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote:
@Shadowolf

Oh, come on. You're splitting hairs here. What would you say is missing for the PASemi 1682M to be used as the basis for a "desktop system"? Just about the only thing I can come up with is "it won't run Windows"


...and that's probably the major reason to why "Desktop" isn't listed as a suitable area of use on their webpage!

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adiaux 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 9:30:16
#78 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@debrun

Quote:
No, wait... I'm serious. What WILL we run with all this power?


Well, when using simple mail, the mail will open up *really fast*! Oh wait, they already do at 400MHz...

A valid question IMHO, especially at prices of $1500. Developers compiling stuff would naturally want this. A couple of "Powser Users" as well, just for the sake of it. But then?

Amiga's strength is running fine on *low power* hardware. That's where it can compete, that's where it has its home. An Amiga OS running on some *cheap* 400MHz hardware together with Hollywood, now that could be a *real* commercial product (the first in an Amiga context for a *very* long time)...

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Metalheart 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 9:36:47
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2967
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:
Amiga OS running on some *cheap* 400MHz hardware together with Hollywood, now that could be a *real* commercial product (the first in an Amiga context for a *very* long time)...


Yes, that would / could be a killer ! Here's hoping for someone to put that to market as a complete solution for cable companies, kiosks etc....

Martin

Last edited by Metalheart on 06-May-2007 at 09:38 AM.
Last edited by Metalheart on 06-May-2007 at 09:37 AM.

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Shadowolf 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 6-May-2007 9:37:22
#80 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Mar-2005
Posts: 137
From: Germany

Annother thing that just got to me.

What gfx-card is one supposed to use with a system like this?

A PCI Radeon?

What PCIe x16 cards are available that would at least work with 2D accelaration?

It's not like ATI or NVIDIA are supplying any information about cards
after the Radeon series.

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