@BrianK

Quote:

Also the Financial Times in Aug reports HD-DVD players selling with a 3:1 lead over Blu-Ray players

By not be a racist and including all Blu-Ray playing devices (PC drives and PS3) according to the Blu-ray Disc Association in early July 2007, Blu-Ray has hardware marketshare 95%.

IMO the PS3 offers far more potential to video enthusiasts than standalone players, for example you can soon also do Karaoke with Singstar, use the Playstation Store, discuss the latest movie trailers with fellow enthusiasts in Playstation Home, etc.

@BrianK

Interesting, those are Blu-Ray disc sales, right? Got a link?

"Nielsen VideoScan reports that tor the week ending July 22nd, Blu-Ray sales lead HD-DVD by an astonishing 74% to 26%. In other words, 3/4 of all high-definition movie sales were Blu-Ray discs. Amazing. Thus far, in 2007, Blu-Ray has widened the sales margin 67% to 33%."

@MikeB

Quote:

Briank wrote: Quote: You had mentioned HD-DVD is strongest in the US but HD-DVD had been outselling Blu-ray before the PS3 launch in Europe HD DVD had a heastart at a cheaper entry price, but market penetration was really low back then compared to the US.

Some more infos on Europe.

I didn't find July #s but as of April 2007 it appears HD-DVD is still selling ahead of Blu-Ray. http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=8313859016326&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE

Also the Financial Times in Aug reports HD-DVD players selling with a 3:1 lead over Blu-Ray players. This was stand alones, so not counting the PS3. Along with this they report a strong European independent studio support for HD-DVD.

Definitely neither is going to die soon.

Last edited by BrianK on 12-Aug-2007 at 01:44 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

With regard to your 2:1 Blu-Ray outselling HD DVD figure you are probably referring to HD DVD's bestseller movie "300"

Nielsen's data is showing..
Q1 2007 : Blu-ray 600,000 HD DVD 260,000
Q2 2007 : Blu-ray 570,000 HD DVD 312,000

This is where I got the 3:1-2:1 figure it was on media sales not a 300 comparison. Q1 is just under 3:1 and Q2 just under 2:1.

We aren't seeing a media sales ratio close to the ratio of player ownership. Your posting of how 40% of PS3 owners don't know it can play Blu-Ray is likely one of the many reasons.

@BrianK

Quote:

Likely it may be but also since an online site is available it'll help keep the clients informed of where their return is, in the process.

The website may improve things:

NeoGAF user:

"Here's the story with mine:

RRoD Over a year ago. After telling MS the story, MS tells me to #### off. College restarted and that became my focus. After graduating, I decided to call them again and they said that everything will be taken care off. After it was sent off, MS gave the 3 year plan. I was told it would take 8-10 days, but after 20 or so I call MS. They didnt have my info in the system. No name, phone number, address, serial number, or gamertag. They tell me to go to UPS and claim that UPS lost it. I do that and nothing. I spent close to 3 hours a day for 2 weeks trying to get any info on my system. Then after all this, the system magically appears. Apparently the moronic telephone guy got every single piece of data about me worng. Mispelled my name, typed the telephone number wrong, got the address wrong.... It made me sad for humanity...."

@BrianK

Quote:

d. Let the ratio of Blu-Ray to HD-DVD sales is not 10:1 but we've seen some weeks of 3:1 but typically is only 2:1.

With regard to your 2:1 Blu-Ray outselling HD DVD figure you are probably referring to HD DVD's bestseller movie "300". But note the HD DVD version adds a few additional features compared to the Blu-Ray version and Blu-Ray customers have more high profile titles to choose from and more rental options in the US as well.

Quote:

You had mentioned HD-DVD is strongest in the US but HD-DVD had been outselling Blu-ray before the PS3 launch in Europe

HD DVD had a heastart at a cheaper entry price, but market penetration was really low back then compared to the US.

Quote:

As for significant sales combined totals for both formats are not significant.

But outselling DVD for the same timeframe of availability. Like with any newly technology you most often cannot expect to outsell well established standards day one.

@MikeB

You seemed to have missed the point. Blu-Ray players are what now 5M+ on market and HD-DVD players around 500K? 10:1 lead. Let the ratio of Blu-Ray to HD-DVD sales is not 10:1 but we've seen some weeks of 3:1 but typically is only 2:1. This is significantly lower then the player ration. The point was that I think showing that 1/2 of PS3 owners not knowing their console is HD or Blu-Ray capable is likely the reason why we aren't seeing a 10:1 media ratio matching the player ratio.

You had mentioned HD-DVD is strongest in the US but HD-DVD had been outselling Blu-ray before the PS3 launch in Europe. So, not sure if that had changed or not.

As for significant sales combined totals for both formats are not significant.

As we see internet to the home speeds ramping up then full length digital downloads will become more popular. If there's no surge of a single format in the next couple of year both might be killed of. Similar to how the iPod phenomena in some circles is blamed for killing DVD-A vs SA-CD.

@BrianK

Quote:

This may speak bad for Blu-Ray. They nearly always count the full PS3 totals towards Blu-Ray players on the street.

Not per se, when those people buy a HDTV friends may tell them or Sony can target informative advertising campaigns. Blu-Ray movies are already significantly outselling HD DVD, so to educate them Sony can potentially expand their sales lead even further.

The US is HD DVD's strongest market, yet far behind Blu-Ray. For instance in Japan Blu-Ray has a 99% market share.

@MikeB

Quote:

only 40% of PS3 owners even knew that their console had a Blu-ray player.

This may speak bad for Blu-Ray. They nearly always count the full PS3 totals towards Blu-Ray players on the street. However, that one really needs to count is the # of people using the Blu-Ray movies. In the case of the PS3 then 60% of the people are not because it they don't know they can. Then we must ask out of the 40% that do know what % of that actually want to use the functionality.

Conversely we know 100% of 360 HD-DVD player owners know of the next-gen format and want to use it, else they wouldn't have purchased the add in.

And of course people that have stand alonge next gen players know about the format.

Perhaps this data lends some insight into why while Blu-Ray, including PS3, is in more homes then HD-DVD but that Blu-Ray isn't sustaining the media count lead that they have in player count lead. Blu-Ray media is leading but the ratio is far closer then the ratio of players in homes.

News on this subject..
Onkyo is releasing an HD-DVD player this fall
Sony announced in Japan it'll befriend the porn industry, which it had formerly shunned.

Interesting, US gamers don't seem to be very knowledgeable about their consoles:

"A study done by the NPD Group shows that half of PS3 owners knew that it had high-definition graphics, and only 30% of Xbox 360 owners were aware. What is really surprising is that only 40% of PS3 owners even knew that their console had a Blu-ray player."

Pretty amazing actually. Sony and Microsoft need to do more with regard to informative advertising, no wonder the PS2 is still going strong.

@jtsiren

Quote:

There is a reason why people are very critical of what to expect from Sony vs. what Sony says (and of course there is the whole history with e.g. PS2 issues), not that you'd ever concede it.

I think the primary reason for quite a few vocal people may be that they are worried about Sony pulling the same stunt as they did with the PS2, namely marginalizing the competition! Looking back I think this was why there were so many "PS2 is DOOMED!" stories circulating in the beginning of the console's lifecycle as well.

Most PS3 criticism so far seems to regard the currently high entry price and some early PS3 games not taking much advantage of the power the PS3 possesses (games based on single-thread lagacy multi-platform game engines).

Last edited by MikeB on 11-Aug-2007 at 03:43 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

No doubt there has been good and bad PR from both companies, but IMO Microsoft's bad XBox 360 PR statements really outshines Sony's PS3 PR statements.

Oh, RRoD vs. rumble of course Microsoft was worse. No doubt. But taking into consideration Sony's past I wouldn't make the statement you just did. There is a reason why people are very critical of what to expect from Sony vs. what Sony says (and of course there is the whole history with e.g. PS2 issues), not that you'd ever concede it.

But sure, Microsoft deserves the crap they are getting for both their PR on the RRoD as well as the whole RRoD in general. I'm in no way disputing or trying to diminish that.

Last edited by jtsiren on 11-Aug-2007 at 01:48 PM.

@jtsiren

Quote:

I was comparing stupid PR excuses, not issues. You can tiptoe around Sony's PR disasters as much as you like of course, as I'm sure you'll continue to do. Microsoft said some monumentally stupid things concerning the RRoD prior to this summer and I have heavily criticized them for that here, so I won't be joining that club thank you.

No doubt there has been good and bad PR from both companies, but IMO Microsoft's bad XBox 360 PR statements really outshines Sony's PS3 PR statements.

The Runble comment is IMO more on the level of Microsoft's 1080p statements (not being possible according to M$ PR spokesman). Of course many games now are already 1080p. First generation PS3 games like Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5 and Final Fantasy may well put these rumours to rest once and for all.

@MikeB

Quote:

I find it funny you decide to compare unacceptable failure ratess with a non-essential non-advertised feature.

I was comparing stupid PR excuses, not issues. You can tiptoe around Sony's PR disasters as much as you like of course, as I'm sure you'll continue to do. Microsoft said some monumentally stupid things concerning the RRoD prior to this summer and I have heavily criticized them for that here, so I won't be joining that club thank you.

@BrianK

Although I agree, that their methods including those from the NPD have statistical errors, you failed to understand my point. Never before has the XBox 360 been beating PS2 sales figures at VGChartz. Maybe the difference is larger the PS2 may still have outsold the PS3, we may never know for sure. However we know for sure the PS2 has been solidly beating XBox 360 sales since the XBox 360 release. The PS2 won the holiday seasons of 2005 and 2006 by good margins.

Last edited by MikeB on 11-Aug-2007 at 12:28 PM.

@MikeB

Here's an interview with
VGCharts Owner - Brett it was pretty recent. Yeah I guess it does cover retailers you're correct on that. What is different appears to be NPD has a broader depth and width.

As for a 200,000 value with a 200 unit different that's 1/10th of 1% so certainly within Brett's statistical error factor. Again as you illustrated before such small #s can't be used for big sweeping conclusions. Because that # is less then the statistical error we cannot confidently conclude the PS3 did truly outsell the PS2. What we can say to a high level of confidnce is that PS3 sales are up and are very close with the PS2. Once we get a # outside of the statistical error then we will have much stronger confidence that the PS3 is pulling out the lead over the PS2. ICK you're making me flash back to stats 101. Stop it!

@BrianK

Quote:

I thought the 360 had 2 weeks beating the PS2 but that might have been US only, memory needs to be reindexed.

Only for North America. People from the US often seem to forget that World>>>>>US.

Quote:

Do remember that VGCharts and NexGenWars do their best to track data and use sources, ie best possible guess. However, they have no in to either the sales data from retailers nor do they get data from the manufacture.

Nextgenwars, no they don't. The site shouldn't be taken serious, nomatter that their figures are now closer to VGChartz data than before.

However VGChartz does have retailer data: "VG Chartz collects data directly from retailers all over the world. Retailer sample sizes are small compared to professional tracking services, but are large enough to provide very accurate projections of the latest console sell through figures worldwide. "

I didn't pretend the VG Chartz data is all saying, I just pointed out a fact. Unlike the XBox 360 VGChartz data suggest the PS3 has outsold the PS2 the last couple of weeks. IMO it's striking the PS3 achieved this earlier than the XBox 360.

@MikeB

Quote:

The PS3 managaged to outsell the PS2 the last 2 weeks:

I thought the 360 had 2 weeks beating the PS2 but that might have been US only, memory needs to be reindexed.

Do remember that VGCharts and NexGenWars do their best to track data and use sources, ie best possible guess. However, they have no in to either the sales data from retailers nor do they get data from the manufacture.

NPD is a more professional site in so far as they do work with retailers. But even they admit their numbers are statistically trended.

I'd say don't bet on the 200 ahead as a truism but once we see a larger difference then we can be more confident our beloved PS3 has eeked ahead. In other words I've agreed and still do on the issue you raised having to deal with small deltas in these sorts of analysis. Go little PS3 you have to double your marketshare but hopefully by Christmas 2008 you'll get out of last and into a competitive 2nd.

@BrianK

Quote:

But, the question that begs out of this is are users running away from the 360 due to quality issues? As we can see the change in sales for the 360 is the best of the changes so difficult to fairly conclude that quality is the large reason people are starying away.

According to VGCharts' data, the PS3 managed to do something the XBox 360 has never been able to do thus far, this despite a one year headstart compared to the PS3 and being at a cheaper price tag (less room for future price drops through cost reductions).

The PS3 managaged to outsell the PS2 the last 2 weeks:

Worldwide sales according to VGCharts for the last two reported weeks:

PS3:............... 205,592
PS2:............... 205,389
Xbox 360:...... 113,531

Last edited by MikeB on 10-Aug-2007 at 08:15 PM.

@Lou

RE: HDMI
They are being seen on the streets though are supposedly Zephyr, aka Elite, motherboards with the 90nm processor but the new heat sinks. They appear to not be labled as Falcon, rumored to be the 65nm processor.

Microsoft was queried on the updates to the hardware and coming 65nm...
'We are constantly updating the console's more than 1700 internal components and therefore will not comment on details of specific components or manufacturing processes." BLAH! They need a slapping with a dead fish.