@all

There should at least be the possibility to get accelerated 2D gfx on the PS3 now (google, don't remember the link).

Still it would be one hardware to target with a cheaper version of OS4 as it has the potential to sell in big numbers.

Don't know how a systems with much CPU but no direct 3D accleration would feel? Could software rendering not be made quite powerful on such system?

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@Troels

If you're talking about that youtube video with the guys who had a 2d accel. blitter trick going (a spinning triangle), then Sony patched that hole.

(Again, if that's what you're talking about.)

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@Rogue

Quote:

This was a misunderstanding. We did look at supporting the PS 3, but at this time it isn't really feasible.

That's really sad to hear, I hope you guys change your minds within the decade ahead of us as the PS3 becomes even cheaper and more widely used (currently the install base is already triple the amount of all sold Amiga models combined).

Linux on the PS3 is well usable even without making use of the SPEs or RSX directly by the OS itself. I thought you guys would have been capable enough to make AmigaOS4.x far less resource demanding and run way faster than Linux on the PS3 (heck some versions already run on 64 MB 150 Mhz PPC classices, doesn't it? And supposed to be efficient and scalable enough to run on mobile devices...).

Really sad to hear. If I had my say, the PS3 would have been the utmost top priority.

Last edited by MikeB on 24-Sep-2008 at 03:29 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 24-Sep-2008 at 03:27 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 24-Sep-2008 at 03:25 PM.

@ Rogue

Linux on the PS3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvf6y2BQ1io

Would AmigaOS4.x running on the PS3 perform worse than this? Linux is running some demanding software like OpenOffice.org and Firefox in this video and performs well.

I can't understand why the AmigaOS4 team would claim to target the embedded market while also claiming not being able to perform well enough on a powerful system like the PS3. I would have thought to be a great opportunity to show off AmigaOS4's efficiency and performance in relation to a full blown Linux desktop.

Last edited by MikeB on 24-Sep-2008 at 03:52 PM.

@RodTerl

Quote:

does a hypervisor esentially just do data server functions

Hypervisor is a mode of the CPU, just like supervisor, just one level higher. The result is that an OS can run in its usual user mode/supervisor mode toggle, but the hypervisor mode has the last word on resource access (i.e. certain areas of memory can only be accessed by the hypervisor).

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@Rogue

What other CELL based motherboards are there ?

Has anyone contacted those companies to find out whether a deal can be made to get OS 4 on that ?

Would like info on the pros and cons.

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@MikeB

Quote:

That's really sad to hear, I hope you guys change your minds within the decade ahead of us as the PS3 becomes even cheaper and more widely used (currently the install base is already triple the amount of all sold Amiga models combined).

Well it's not only the PS 3 itself but also the additional equipment you need. Unless you have the right TV or monitor, you can only use low resolutions.

Quote:

Linux on the PS3 is well usable even without making use of the SPEs or RSX directly by the OS itself. I thought you guys would have been capable enough to make AmigaOS4.x far less resource demanding and run way faster than Linux on the PS3 (heck some versions already run on 64 MB 150 Mhz PPC classices, doesn't it? And supposed to be efficient and scalable enough to run on mobile devices...).

It's not about resource demands. It is about display update speed. From what I heard, Linux is rather sluggish to use, and the video you posted does seem to indicate that it's true.

Quote:

Really sad to hear. If I had my say, the PS3 would have been the utmost top priority.

I consider the video access speed a showstopper, really. I have never seen it run, but I have confirmation from people that have Linux on the PS 3 and they're less than thrilled about the speed.

Anyway, It's not my decision either. If I had a PS 3, I would probably try to port it just for fun (and for working with the SPE's), but for one thing, I don't have a PS 3, I cannot justify the cost for it (and the additional hardware to make proper use of it), and even if it were ported, it's not a commercially sellable item yet.

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@Rogue

Quote:

Well it's not only the PS 3 itself but also the additional equipment you need. Unless you have the right TV or monitor, you can only use low resolutions.

I thought that myself but I've since read it's not true.
However even if it is true, all you need is a converter box or cable or just get a cheap HDMI TV.

Quote:

It's not about resource demands. It is about display update speed. From what I heard, Linux is rather sluggish to use, and the video you posted does seem to indicate that it's true.

There is no problem with the display update speed, it's been benchmarked at hundreds of FPS and it'll play video without a hitch.

OTOH you will need some software 2D / 3D drivers, without those the graphics display will be slow.

_________________
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@Rogue

Quote:

Well it's not only the PS 3 itself but also the additional equipment you need. Unless you have the right TV or monitor, you can only use low resolutions.

? Other than a TV I don't understand what you mean?

PS3 outputs 1920x1080p, 1920x1080i, 1280x720p, 720x576p or 720x576i in PAL
countries. But isn't this upto the user and not you to decide if he/she wants to
spend the money for a full HD TV/monitor?

But yes in general PS3 is not that computer resolution friendly as it does not support
free setting of resolution.. Or atleast I think it doesn't. This could be different when
another OS is installed though,


Quote:

It's not about resource demands. It is about display update speed. From what I heard, Linux is rather sluggish to use, and the video you posted does seem to indicate that it's true.

This is about Linux running really bad on low memory configuration. Hardly a problem
for OS4? Not having access to hardware accelerated graphic is a cause though.
But I think this is being worked on. I guess you could get this working quite fast as
well, as we are talking about a single graphics chip and not multiple ones. And it
won't change for the next 6-7 years of PS3's life cycle..


Quote:

consider the video access speed a showstopper, really. I have never seen it run, but I have confirmation from people that have Linux on the PS 3 and they're less than thrilled about the speed.

The problem is that Nvidia doesn't release info on the chip, especially the 3D part.
But as I wrote before it is just ONE chip to hack
The 2D part, which would be the most important, I guess is comparable to a normal
Nvidia 7900 card, maybe with some minor changes. Info on this card should be
easiliy obtainable for you guys.


Quote:

Anyway, It's not my decision either. If I had a PS 3, I would probably try to port it just for fun (and for working with the SPE's), but for one thing, I don't have a PS 3, I cannot justify the cost for it (and the additional hardware to make proper use of it), and even if it were ported, it's not a commercially sellable item yet.

Somebody please donate a PS3 with a 50" Full HD LCD for each brother
Just to see it run (fast) on PS3 and let Sony know would be great.

The 256MB RAM is the only bad thing I can think of regarding having OS4 on it.

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@Rogue

just a small Q.

how fare away are amiga os 4.1 delveopring from. SMP and duel technology.maby multiplay prosccering..

lets say acuce make a board with. 2 different cpu´es and duel based cpués

???

is it hard to make or ?.. i was always wondering about way the orginale cpu in my 1200 was never used when i got my acc card in it.


anyway more then happy with my os 4.1 on micro. download and upload to OWB and i am set. maby a way to use the flashplay as a plugin with out to much trobble.

hoping for high-end hardware thogh.. as i see it sam is not a new level it is availbe hardware as replacement for amiga one. as i sayd i am waiting for high-end hardware

can you say anything about the next expected time for the next os 4.x version update. i know we just got os 4.1

i will rather have more small .updates more offen for less money. then big ones for more money once in a wile.

whot about pci acc cpu cards for micro/sam could it be possible ?

sorrey for my bad english

@MikeB

Here here Mike, this is what I posted to ZeroG too..

@ZeroG

Yes, I have been looking at this hardware for some time. I do own a PS3 and recently did post a comment to Rogue (Hyperion) how great it would be to have it for the machine. He did mention performance would be the issue, specifically the visualisation of the OS, as there is only access to Frame buffer to display/update the screen, there is no RSX GPU hardware acceleration. What a shame really?

With regards to the PowerStation, hardware... it does look good however there is another piece of hardware worth looking at that includes CELL + RSX GPU unblocked... and that is this...

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/sony/bcu-100.shtml

or

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/ZEGO/ZEGO.shtml

also... http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200808/08-095E/index.html

The Sony Bcu-100. Whilst it is not in a desktop form factor, it is a completely open system. Os4 could be made to run on this and have full access to RSX... can you imagine the demos on this thing once coders bang the CELL and RSX...

Funnily enough I am actually considering purchasing one of these and simply putting it on my desk, Pizza Box style, and resting my LCD on top of. Its a full 64bit computer with Terrasoft's Yellow Dog Linux, but this time fully accelerated - not like the cobbled PS3!

I could then run an emulated Amiga environment within my YelloDog Linux running on this beast. Obviously all the open source software, games etc will work very well as this has RSX acceleration... Why not OS4 then!!!

Some pdf's...

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/ZEGO/files/Cell_Computing_Whitepaper.pdf
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/ZEGO/files/BCU-100_Whitepaper.pdf

IF ONLY...

Q!

"aLL RoAds LeAd ToO HoMe"

@Troels

Quote:

Troels wrote: @all There should at least be the possibility to get accelerated 2D gfx on the PS3 now (google, don't remember the link). Still it would be one hardware to target with a cheaper version of OS4 as it has the potential to sell in big numbers. Don't know how a systems with much CPU but no direct 3D accleration would feel? Could software rendering not be made quite powerful on such system?

I read that Sony removed that ability in a firmware. I dont think ps3 will ever have direct access to the GPU using a third party OS.

@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote: @MikeB Quote: That's really sad to hear, I hope you guys change your minds within the decade ahead of us as the PS3 becomes even cheaper and more widely used (currently the install base is already triple the amount of all sold Amiga models combined). Well it's not only the PS 3 itself but also the additional equipment you need. Unless you have the right TV or monitor, you can only use low resolutions. Quote: Linux on the PS3 is well usable even without making use of the SPEs or RSX directly by the OS itself. I thought you guys would have been capable enough to make AmigaOS4.x far less resource demanding and run way faster than Linux on the PS3 (heck some versions already run on 64 MB 150 Mhz PPC classices, doesn't it? And supposed to be efficient and scalable enough to run on mobile devices...). It's not about resource demands. It is about display update speed. From what I heard, Linux is rather sluggish to use, and the video you posted does seem to indicate that it's true. Quote: Really sad to hear. If I had my say, the PS3 would have been the utmost top priority. I consider the video access speed a showstopper, really. I have never seen it run, but I have confirmation from people that have Linux on the PS 3 and they're less than thrilled about the speed. Anyway, It's not my decision either. If I had a PS 3, I would probably try to port it just for fun (and for working with the SPE's), but for one thing, I don't have a PS 3, I cannot justify the cost for it (and the additional hardware to make proper use of it), and even if it were ported, it's not a commercially sellable item yet.

You are correct.. It feels very sluggish indeed. To me it feels like a old PII using a standard vesa graphics driver. Just moving a window around will make the whole system lag.

@Tomas

Maybe a SAM CELL board in the future, with two NVIDIA gfx GPU's SLI'd... that will be a machine to kill all others... for a while yet.

or maybe, a NATAMI CELL board expansion. The Natami crew have already said that is possible, the CPU expansion slot/interface is available for that, or can be replaced...

I think it is only a matter of time!

Q!

"aLL roAds LeAd ToO HoMe"

Last edited by QuBe on 25-Sep-2008 at 06:35 AM.

@Rogue

Quote:

Well it's not only the PS 3 itself but also the additional equipment you need. Unless you have the right TV or monitor, you can only use low resolutions.

According to NPD research the bulk of PS3 users own a HDTV. There must be people amongst the AmigaOS4 team owning a PS3 and a HDTV to help out.

Quote:

It's not about resource demands. It is about display update speed. From what I heard, Linux is rather sluggish to use, and the video you posted does seem to indicate that it's true.

A full desktop Linux distro isn't quite a speed demon on my PC neither. The video playback speed was good in that video, OpenOffice.org and Firefox well usable.

Quote:

I consider the video access speed a showstopper, really. I have never seen it run, but I have confirmation from people that have Linux on the PS 3 and they're less than thrilled about the speed.

I am not so thrilled by Linux desktop performance on any hardware.

Quote:

If I had a PS 3, I would probably try to port it just for fun (and for working with the SPE's), but for one thing, I don't have a PS 3, I cannot justify the cost for it (and the additional hardware to make proper use of it), and even if it were ported, it's not a commercially sellable item yet.

The PS3 can be bought for a mere 350 Euros at Media Markt. That's a small percentage of what just an AmigaOne motherboard costed.

Even if you don't sell it commercially and just allow potential developers, beta-testers and such to download a version to get started, it could make quite an impact.

IMO Hyperion should contact Sony Europe, they have been very willing to help out. The managers will of course redirect you to engineering staff as they don't have a clue about 3rd party operating system. If you tell them about your track record as a software engineer they may well donate you a developer system.

Other OS support is a start, we don't know what is going to happen in the future, but IMO if we encounter surprises you should be ready for that.

Maybe with a special deal you could install and run AmigaOS4 as a game from the XMB. So you'll have direct RSX access like just any game. For example dedicate a 1 GB placeholder (including ~100 MB OS4) on the harddrive for AmigaOS4, I would love having the XMB available as well, being able to switch back to PS3 games (AmigaOS4 supports instant off), perform some video chatting while AmigaOS4 is running, etc.

Please evaluate the opportunities, it's amazing you haven't already.

Last edited by MikeB on 25-Sep-2008 at 11:05 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 25-Sep-2008 at 11:05 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 25-Sep-2008 at 11:01 AM.

@Samwel

Quote:

The problem is that Nvidia doesn't release info on the chip, especially the 3D part.

First problem is Sony's hypervisor.

Quote:

But as I wrote before it is just ONE chip to hack

That hole was closed by Sony.

Quote:

The 2D part, which would be the most important, I guess is comparable to a normal Nvidia 7900 card, maybe with some minor changes.

RSX has 8 ROPS i.e. comparable to Geforce 7600/ 7700 (refer to PS3 UT3 vs PC UT3 results).

Last edited by Hammer on 25-Sep-2008 at 11:52 AM.

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@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote: @MikeB [quote]Anyway, It's not my decision either. If I had a PS 3, I would probably try to port it just for fun (and for working with the SPE's), but for one thing, I don't have a PS 3, I cannot justify the cost for it (and the additional hardware to make proper use of it), and even if it were ported, it's not a commercially sellable item yet.

True, but if a magical .iso got leaked (ala Moana) that took an A1 4.1 disc and trasmuted it into a working installation for the PS3 (or Wii ), then you'd see increased sales of the A1 version...
;)
;)

I have posted this on the other thread but no help:

I showed the review to one of my colleagues who read it.

Then he said: "It hasn't got Memory Protection...that is bad, it is because it must be very buggy...(or something like that...)"

I have never used OS4 so I don't know what to answer to that.

Any competent advice or shall I just be rude to him?

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