@number6

Quote:

Some more realistic numbers from someone who actually was experimenting with this FOR OS4.

Benchmarks?

If he wrote truth, then the ratio is 1:10 (750CXe 400 MHz : AMD64 Athlon 3600+, cca 17 SpecInt95 vs cca 160 SpecInt95).

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @Darth_X Quote: compared to the PowerPC603 which is one of the most common processors used by OS4 today. BlizzardPPC is rare and 440EP isn´t PowerPC603... How fast could be such emulation? Computer of my brother (Core 2 Quad 2400 MHz) - 18.3 SpecInt2006... cca 274 SpecInt95 Emulated CPU (under QEMU, without accelerator) is as fast as Pentium MMX 200 MHz - cca 6 SpecInt95 Emulated CPU (under WinUAE, JIT, no MMU emulation) is as fast as Pentium II 400 MHz - cca 15-17 SpecInt95 Compare these numbers to SAM (440EP 666 MHz - cca 25 SpecInt95) or A1 (750FX 800 MHz - 38 SpecInt95)

With Windows 7 X64** and Intel Core 2 Duo T7500 @2.2Ghz, my (ASUS G1Sn) laptop was able to reach ~100 percent Wii performance with Dolphin Wii emulator (unoffical SVN build).

**With Vista 32bit, my laptop wasn't able to reach 100 percent Wii performance.

Anyway, here's Core 2 Duo 2.2 Ghz running on Dolphin r3661 at nearly full speed (45-60 fps) and Pokemon Closseum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h18pCBy4NG0

Intel Core2 Duo E8400 @3.0 Ghz, Mario Kart Wii 100+ FPS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7B8Z2rMDK0&feature=related

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@DiscreetFX

Quote:

DiscreetFX wrote: PearPC is not the only solution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit A more complete list including ones using PowerPC as a guest virtual processor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_platform_virtual_machines

IBM practically re-entered the X86 CPU race when they acquired Transitive.

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@Hammer

Quote:

With Windows 7 X64** and Intel Core 2 Duo T7500 @2.2Ghz, my (ASUS G1Sn) laptop was able to reach ~100 percent Wii performance with Dolphin Wii emulator (unoffical SVN build).

Looks good! CPU ratio is 1:7 (Broadway 729 MHz : Core 2 Duo T7500 2.2Ghz, cca 31 SpecInt95 : cca 217 SpecInt95).

But I think that emulation of "real computer" (not game console) will need more CPU performance. What emulator we can use for this purpose? Are there other (developed) machine emulators than QEMU?

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @Hammer Quote: With Windows 7 X64** and Intel Core 2 Duo T7500 @2.2Ghz, my (ASUS G1Sn) laptop was able to reach ~100 percent Wii performance with Dolphin Wii emulator (unoffical SVN build). Looks good! CPU ratio is 1:7 (Broadway 729 MHz : Core 2 Duo T7500 2.2Ghz, cca 31 SpecInt95 : cca 217 SpecInt95). But I think that emulation of "real computer" (not game console) will need more CPU performance. What emulator we can use for this purpose? Are there other (developed) machine emulators than QEMU?

From memory, there's PearPC-JIT, SheepShaver,

I haven't re-setup my PearPCJIT 0.4pre test environment since I decommissioned my Athlon 64 3000+ (Newcastle, 2Ghz, 512KB L2 cache) box.

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2 main problems going x86 or emulated/virtualied on x86.

1. You will destroy the last few Amiga-loyal retailers who won't be able to compete with other x86 resellers. At least "custom" hardware provides an opportunity for them to offer a service tailored to the community and make a little profit in return.

2. If AmigaOS4 were running on x86, most people would download before buying - then when they boot up, they'd probably say "hmm, nice, but where the apps?" If someone has spent £600 on a new machine, they'll probably spend time sourcing and twiddling the rest of the software to make it useful. If someone has spent half an hour downloading it, they probably won't - at best it will be left on their hard drive as an occasional novelty.


Yes, going x86 (by whatever method) would gain a few extra users, but very few of them will be able/willing to contribute in a useful manner to the community (eg by buying or writing software).

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@Darth_X

Quote:

Darth_X wrote: I'm a huge fan of the "Amiga Forever" system. The videos, the demos, the games, the preconfigured environments.. its AWESOME!

The latest Amikit+AmigaForever bundle is a nice package.

Quote:

Wouldn't it be cool if OS4 could run on a regular PC using an updated version of PearPC? The Intel i7 quad core systems are insanely powerful, compared to the PowerPC603 which is one of the most common processors used by OS4 today. I would like to start a bounty to make this happen! Is anyone else interested? I would seriously consider starting the bounty at $10,000 of my own money, if the conditions were right. I consider this a financial investment and would like to see some kind of return on my investment. Can anyone else match or beat $10,000? (There used to be several millionaires lurking around here, so $10k is like lunch money to them!) Would asking a minimum of $1000 be too much to ask from each donator? Thanks for reading this thread, be positive and post some intelligent comments please! No trolling!

Unless you are a developer** or with desirable native applications, there’s very little point running the emulator.

**I use MS Visual Studio’s PocketPC emulator before I try it on my PocketPC PDA/smart phone.

There’s IcAROS for X86 systems. With IcAROS, I have near-zero desire to run emulated ASO4 i.e. not enough legacy. Note PearPC's declined with the arrival of MacOS X X86.

Last edited by Hammer on 27-Aug-2009 at 09:31 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 27-Aug-2009 at 09:24 AM.
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@Hammer

SheepShaver does not emulate a memory management unit, PearPC is not actively developed.

@pavlor

There's GXemul
http://gxemul.sourceforge.net/

Last edited by Hammer on 27-Aug-2009 at 01:38 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 27-Aug-2009 at 01:36 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 27-Aug-2009 at 01:32 PM.

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@yoodoo2

Quote:

1. You will destroy the last few Amiga-loyal retailers who won't be able to compete with other x86 resellers. At least "custom" hardware provides an opportunity for them to offer a service tailored to the community and make a little profit in return.

Got any examples?

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@Fransexy

Quote:

Ohh yeah!!!! ACKcontrols is a well know reliable and reputable source of information

Did that happen since they partnered with Amiga to make another news item about vapour ware, this time about a 2Ghz machine?

Quote:

1. You will destroy the last few Amiga-loyal retailers who won't be able to compete with other x86 resellers. At least "custom" hardware provides an opportunity for them to offer a service tailored to the community and make a little profit in return.

I wish the owner of AmigaKit could post a reply to your comment, but I'm sure he would agree with me that Lack of new products to sell have put many Amiga loyal retailers out of business.

OS4 in an 'Amiga Forever' type package would allow an 'amiga' product to be sold on the shelves of PC Retailers who would never sell things like powerpc motherboards, etc..

Quote:

2. If AmigaOS4 were running on x86, most people would download before buying - then when they boot up, they'd probably say "hmm, nice, but where the apps?" If someone has spent £600 on a new machine, they'll probably spend time sourcing and twiddling the rest of the software to make it useful. If someone has spent half an hour downloading it, they probably won't - at best it will be left on their hard drive as an occasional novelty.

I mentioned "Amiga Forever" type package. Amiga Forever includes a full environment, with apps, games demos, etc.. I belive that if OS4 were packaged this way, with the games, demos, etc, on a DVD that people could plug into a PC and try out.. that would be a good thing.

The "retro computing" novelty market is larger than the existing OS4 base.. Why not make a product that allows that market to try out OS4?

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@Darth_X

Quote:

he would agree with me that Lack of new products to sell have put many Amiga loyal retailers out of business

TRUE coz all we got is OS4 and running 68k apps on it and there are no Newer software for
retailers to sell.

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@Darth_X

Users who want to run x86 can always try AROS which is progressing well and has a low cost of ownership.

There is a separate demand for Classic Amiga hardware and OS 4.x next-gen hardware that existing Amiga dealers can fulfill. The challenge is always to fund new innovative products from our hardware partners. We don't sell in the PC marketplace so the revenue streams we get from the Amiga Community go back into funding new Amiga development, products and services.

We all hope for a larger growing Amiga market and work toward that goal. New hardware that runs the latest AmigaOS can only be a good thing. We now need even more application software to start taking advantage of the OS 4.1. Internet software is making good progress with OWB. Further advancements in Flash support on the Amiga would be welcome.

If the AmigaOS 4.1 was running on x86, we would still be in the position of having to develop Amiga specific drivers for the plethora of expansion cards, peripherals and hardware out there. This is the challenge facing AROS at the moment, although Poseidon USB provides a good start.

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@Darth_X

SheepShaver cpu emulator is quicker than PearPC one.

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@Fransexy

Although ACK is not very good delivering he's probably right about performance:

SheepShaver nBench test

here you can see that Xeon 3200 sometimes runs 50% faster than a real G4/400Mhz.

SheepShaver Altivec test

As you can see it's possible to emulate Altivec unit with a Xeon 3200 and get faster results than a >300Mhz G4. SheepShaver emulation is twice faster than QEmu.

It has to be added that author writes that SheepShaver cpu JIT could be optimized much more, because it's pretty basic.


I don't know about others but I would be very happy to have something *faster* than my CSPPC on a laptop.

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@Crumb

Quote:

Crumb wrote: @Darth_X SheepShaver cpu emulator is quicker than PearPC one.

SheepShaver doesn't emulate the MMU.

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@Hammer
As always, if you don't emulation something, then your emulation can run faster

@all
GXemul looks like a "general computer emulator" (not PPC or architecture specific), so probably it is dead slow.

QuickTransit was apparently used by Apple's Rosetta, which I believe was pretty fast, however it is commercial, and they would probably want Hyperion to pay a bomb for it, so no go there either.

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@ChrisH

QuickTransit is owned by IBM now so if they were feeling extra generous and wanted to help the OS 4.1 team out. It would help them sell more of their PPC chips after all. It never hurts to ask. Like the hot red head you never asked out on a date in high school. There was only a slight chance that she would have said yes but since you never asked you don't know what her answer would have been.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 28-Aug-2009 at 09:14 PM.

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@serk118

Quote:

TRUE coz all we got is OS4 and running 68k apps on it and there are no Newer software for retailers to sell.

Wrong.

Digital Universe only available for OS4. The only way it will ever run on an emulator is over my dead body, I am sick to death of the emulation crowd contributing nothing to the future of the Amiga and wanting everything for free.