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      /  How to restore Amiga's rightful place at the top of the food chain
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PosterThread
Hammer 
Re: How to restore Amiga's rightful place at the top of the food chain
Posted on 21-Oct-2009 9:01:09
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5874
From: Australia

@QuBe

Quote:

QuBe wrote:
@soft

Fine, but at current exchange rates that is closer to $1500 dollars US, right? ...and you didn't mention whether or not you can run Crysis at full detail on that rig.

Maybe the GTX 250 GPU is poweful enough to do it, but you would need to test it; or maybe give the new 3D mark a whirl to see exactly what peak you get from it.

Q!

"i am home"

GeForce GTS 250 (Geforce 8800/9800 G92 rename) cost around $104 USD.
http://www.pricewatch.com/browse/video_cards/geforce_gts_250

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102859
ATI Radeon HD 5750 1GB VRAM cost $129.99 USD.

Last edited by Hammer on 21-Oct-2009 at 09:18 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 21-Oct-2009 at 09:15 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

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retro 
Re: How to restore Amiga's rightful place at the top of the food chain
Posted on 21-Oct-2009 9:53:22
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2003
Posts: 1049
From: Unknown

Last edited by retro on 21-Oct-2009 at 02:49 PM.
Last edited by retro on 21-Oct-2009 at 09:56 AM.

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DAX 
Re: How to restore Amiga's rightful place at the top of the food chain
Posted on 21-Oct-2009 9:58:11
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Hammer
I agree with hammer that you cannot compare PS3 to a low cost PC. The latter costs just slightly more and is far superior.

Consider that any PS3 game mentioned only runs at 720P (some times it is "Faked" 720P through scaling) often at no more than 30FPS and often with no AA. while the PC Hammer mentions can run console games (those that are available on both PC and Consoles) at NATIVE 1080P with AA at over 60FPS (while handling over 2 million pixels).

That said much of the power is drawn from the graphic cards nowadays, and with the advent of Geometry Shaders, Hardware Tesselation and various other GP-GPU aids in Phisics calculations (with more to come! GP-GPU, will make it's way in much much more of the rendering pipeline the more we go ahead) todays concentration on CPU power will be less and less important the farther we go ahead (yes I know Intel could integrate the whole concept in its CPU ISA in the far future, but I don't think it will happen in the short or mid term, as their first Larrabe foray will be a PCI-E Graphics/GP-GPU card, that "theoretically" could run on a NG Amiga too).

What Amiga really needs NOW in the short term (let's leave long term lofty goals alone for now) is software support for these new infrastructures, ie: new 3D drivers with OpenGL 3.2 support, and of course full openCL support too.

If we get those software infrastructures we would be fine (in the short and mid term) even with a Dual 2Ghz Titan CPU coupled with a "Fermi-Class" GPU (or with a couple of those ^__^).

More software support and better drivers would make all the difference in world for the time being.

_________________
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Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

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QuBe 
Re: How to restore Amiga's rightful place at the top of the food chain
Posted on 21-Oct-2009 11:20:01
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1075
From: Dunes of Uridia

@Hammer

From what I recall reading the PS3 RSX (not counting the support you can get from Cell at full hilt) has about the same power as x2 nVidia 7800 SLI'd; which is quite powerful I think.

From what I am seeing from the "exclusive" games being produced by Sony Studios (not the multi-plats), the games look spectacularly good. Uncharted 2 and GT5 are both 1080p native and look fantastic. God Of War III should be 1080p native too, also looks very very good.

The Ps3, as in the days of the Amiga, seems to perform better when engineered specifically for it as a target platform; developers can then squeeze the most out of it. I also don't believe we have seen the best it can do yet.

As far as multi-plats go; the EGO engine from Codies seems very good. Dirt 2 looks amazing on the Ps3 and plays very well too.

So whilst you may be able to play a decent bunch of games on the PC, the usual suspects; at least I get to play fantastic exclusive titles which I really enjoy. For me the Ps3 is phenomenal value at 299 dollars; considering it is a blu-ray player as well :)

I also run Linux on it; only to do the basics on it due to the fact that we do not have access to the GP; what a shame!

Don't know if a "cheap" rig could run Crysis at 1900 x 1200 with full detail though, including all the effects; maybe it can, but I still think you would probably need to spend more.

One last point, again I read it somewhere; a statement by the team behind Crysis, saying that Crytek Engine V3 will be used for Crysis 2 which is also coming out on the consoles. It will be very interesting to see what the developers manage to squeeze out of the Ps3. Whilst the PC may be able to play it at the highest of resolutions, I am sure the game environments and effects will be identical though. I remember reading somewhere in that article that the developers felt confident that they could get the Crytek engine to look very good on the consoles and create a stunning experience...

Looking forward to it.

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 21-Oct-2009 at 11:26 AM.
Last edited by QuBe on 21-Oct-2009 at 11:22 AM.

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DAX 
Re: How to restore Amiga's rightful place at the top of the food chain
Posted on 21-Oct-2009 12:29:53
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@QuBe

Quote:
From what I recall reading the PS3 RSX (not counting the support you can get from Cell at full hilt) has about the same power as x2 nVidia 7800 SLI'd; which is quite powerful I think.


No, if it taken alone it is actually less that a single 7800 (the exact same, but with less ROPS).

Of course RSX can interact with the SPUs so it is very different.

Sadly PS3s dual 256MB memory banks are a bottleneck for Native 1080P graphics, so upscaled 1080 graphics is what you usually get, unless the 3D graphics is simple enough to allow 1080P natively (ie: it can be done on Ninja Gaiden Sigma, but it can't be done on KillZone 2).

_________________
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Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

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QuBe 
Re: How to restore Amiga's rightful place at the top of the food chain
Posted on 21-Oct-2009 17:13:58
#26 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1075
From: Dunes of Uridia

@DAX

Its done natively for GT5 at 1080p, Uncharted 2, and God Of War III... I don't see it struggling on the first 2 titles anyway... Have you seen Super Stardust too...

Just came back from playing Killzone 2; I say, even at 720p it is a fantastic experience. The single best FPS I have ever played... far better than CoD in my opinion.

Where is your source about the RSX being similar to only one 7800 if I may ask!

Q!

"i am home"

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DAX 
Re: How to restore Amiga's rightful place at the top of the food chain
Posted on 21-Oct-2009 18:39:48
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@QuBe

On RSX VS 7800GTX

It is sufficient to check official Data reported on wikipedia anyway here is a recap of the main differences the 3 values below refer to 1)number of Rops, 2) memory interface in Bits, 3)peak bandwitdh in GB/s:

PS3--RSX 8 , 128Bit , 22,6GB/s
GTX7800 16, 256Bit, 38GB/s

The above RSX features are on par with the GT7600 (not 7800GTX) however similarities end there as the rest od RSX is the same as 7800GTX (again that is only the RSX part).

Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSX_%27Reality_Synthesizer%27

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_7_Series#GeForce_7800_GTX (here click on 7800GTX)

On PS3 native resolutions:

I have no data about GOW III, but I can tell you that both GT5 and Super StarDust take a couple of shortcuts ( a nice and legitimate trick mind you).

They reach 1080 vertical native lines so they play on that fact to declare 1080P, but true 1080P has 1920 horizontal lines too (1080P is described by both ATSC and EICTA as 1920x1080) while both those two games don't: SSD has 1280 horizontal lines, while GT5 uses 1440.

They play a nice trick on the aspect ratio by distorting the native picture so that when it is stretched horizontally it assumes the correct proportions.

Uncharted 2 has been confirmed to be 720P upscaled to 1080P I have read it in tons of websites here are a couple (the first is a video comparison to check if the upscaling slows down the game at 1080P, the second is a plain review) :

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/digitalfoundry-uncharted-2-720p-vs-scaled-1080p-performance

http://www.game-boyz.com/content/node/12038

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

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QuBe 
Re: How to restore Amiga's rightful place at the top of the food chain
Posted on 22-Oct-2009 8:05:54
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1075
From: Dunes of Uridia

@DAX

Ok, many thanks for the information DAX; I will check all the links.

Q!

"i am home"

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