@itix Quote:

Exactly the same reason why nobody need antivirus programs on Windows. Visit only safe websites, do not execute wormy email attachments and stick with the safe software only. 100% virus free Windows guaranteed.

That's a silly argument. You cannot know in advance which web sites have viruses, and the cost of getting one is incredibly high (= your machine is dead).

Where-as, if you find an AmigaOS app that crashes the OS, the cost is likely to be low (unless you don't (auto) save your documents frequently), and you can delete that app without any further cost.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Quote:

That's a silly argument. You cannot know in advance which web sites have viruses, and the cost of getting one is incredibly high (= your machine is dead).

so you claim that you can know in advance if a little program will have bugs or not? That's funny, debuggers and test suites are obsolete now!

Quote:

Where-as, if you find an AmigaOS app that crashes the OS, the cost is likely to be low (unless you don't (auto) save your documents frequently), and you can delete that app without any further cost.

Keep in mind users don't launch apps randomly and usually run apps because they want to do something productive with them. E.g. they may need to edit word documents with amiga writer, suffer various hangs and still need to edit these documents.

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@ChrisH

Quote:

Yes, and where did I ever deny that? In fact where did I ever mention the subject AT ALL? (Hint: I didn't.)

here you replied a message where I wrote about amigas crashing not being good for non-hobby users. You disagreed because in your opinion it boots very fast and the user should not run "unsafe" software.

Quote:

Again, where did I ever disagree that it was a "hobby"? (I in fact said that the whole argument was pointless, since no one is going to agree on the definition of "hobby OS".)

here you reply to one message that stated that using an obsolete OS in spite of being better option is a hobby and you disagreed saying that your OS4 was not a hobby because you were happy with it
"Even when one finds that they get a BETTER overall experience using the "technically obsolete OS" running on "obsolete hardware"?"

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@Leo
Quote:

The guy that wants to do some taxing stuff with java couldn't either. My friend who would like to watch youtube/myspace/kewego/whatever Flash 9+ movies couldn't either. And you couldn't read/write the Doc/Xls/ppt documents you've just been sent.

i agree with @Leo

Todays pda phones can do all that & whats the point of having a OS & you can not run todays apps/tools.


Quote:

Aros belongs to community not amiga inc x86 fly`es with Aros.

_________________
http://aros-exec.org/

http://serk118.blogspot.com/

@serk118

So leo and you spend your time paying taxes (every day? :)) with a silly Java application. Not being able to pay his taxes online, what a frustration, really!

For the rest (youtube/video portals, word/powerpoint and so on), you can do that with various alternatives that don't need official Adaube Flash or bloated office suites.

@serk118
Quote:

whats the point of having a OS & you can not run todays apps/tools.

The point is that Amiga-Like OSs are so fun to use that we are willing to enjoy whats available now, while we wait for both newer more modern OS iterations, and newer apps.

It gets better all the time...

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

If you can rely on the OS to do a job fast and stable, it's a semipro OS Id say.
Now, many a time a minute job, turns into hours or days on even a MS OS ..........

Better be a hobby OS and a niche than sloppy OS and in mainstream.
Just a thought.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Crumb

" It's strange you don't know msconfig as it's very comfortable to disable services and programs."

None oif my friends have ever mentioned it. Neither I have seen it used my anyone @ work. Perhaps it's because it can not be found in start menu.
I wonder why M$ wants to hide such a powertool.

(we'll talk about the tool in our next group meeting's AOB section, at work. As it seems the IT support is not too great, also we as users should familiarize ourselves with such tool. there are other things as well that need to be put on the agenda in the future, like how to extend the amount of multitasking in windows, instructions can be found from M$.com but not everyone should need to go via the hard way.)

UPDATE: regedit is another bad example of M$ user friendliness. But I just tried it since a very long time.
On my work laptop, regedit can noty find something from ntblahblah.dll. So this windows is broken, again. Not just the myapp.exe that was unable to start to test. I'll have to take this PC to the IT support again (most likely they format & reinstall, again) and go using lab PC for today SW testing need...
Sloppy OS.

Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Dec-2009 at 07:39 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

I won't stop calling AmigaOS a Hobby OS.

The majority uses AmigaOS as a hobby OS. None of my professional applications (@work) are available for AmigaOS, so I use Windows 7 for that purpose. I am sure this won't change in the future.

What's wrong with the term "Hobby OS" anyway? I can't find anything derogative about it.

_________________
This signature is in the middle of a much needed facelift!

@polka.
It depends on what you mean: if for you it means "you made a Hobby out of it" then fine (I have a friend who uses windows at work and have made of Macintosh his hobby from a long time), if you mean it is some sort of "Junior OS", that is plain wrong as the fact that the OS is not up to date is due to a series of unfortunate events and have nothing to do with AmigaOS being designated as a "Hobby OS".

AmigaOS is now actively developed and free to form commercial partnerships. It has a minor (4.1.1) and a major (MAP) development underway so let's see where it lands.

As for "none of the professional applications I use at work are present" well, it was the truth even in 1989 or 1991. Back then Amiga offered alternatives (which is still true up to a certain extent) but nowadays what we should aim at is applications that offer "compatibility" with other apps formats (so that you can exchange files even if you do not use the same app).

The latter will come worry not.

Last edited by DAX on 23-Dec-2009 at 10:04 AM.

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@CrumbQuote:

Quote: ChrisH: I certainly would not be using OS4 on Sam440 if I felt it was worse than using Windows for the things I do. Of course that relies on the things I find important, Quote: Crumb: Anyway... some of the things you value so much are not valued by most of the world: Quote: ChrisH: so what? I like how AmigaOS4 feels in use, and I hate how Windows feels Quote: Crumb: Nothing wrong with you enjoying your hobby. My point is ... it will be a hobby. Quote: ChrisH: where did I ever disagree that it was a "hobby" Quote: Crumb: here you reply to one message that stated that using an obsolete OS in spite of being better option is a hobby and you disagreed saying that your OS4 was not a hobby because you were happy with it

At NO point did I ever raise the question of whether it was or was not a "hobby". Although I did *ask* you whether your "hobby" claim applied in a particular circumstance, I did not actually disagree with you:

Quote:

Quote: Crumb: Using a technically obsolete OS on "obsolete" hardware (or at least not up to current standards) in spite of being able to use stable and well proven modern technologies is ... a hobby. ChrisH: Even when one finds that they get a BETTER overall experience using the "technically obsolete OS" running on "obsolete hardware"?

Your reply to that did not actually mention "hobby" status either:
Quote:

Quote: Crumb: Crashing the OS with a small app ruins all the user experience Quote: ChrisH: Hmmm, then don't run that small app?!? "Doctor, my arm hurts when I do this." "Well, don't do it!" Quote: Crumb: As I said, what you find to be good enough is not good enough for average Joe. Quote: ChrisH: Yes, and where did I ever deny that? Quote: Crumb: here you replied a message where I wrote about amigas crashing

But I *never* mentioned "average Joe", nor replied to one where you mentioned it.

As a hint: If I reply to something you wrote, and quote it, then I am replying to the quoted part, and not (necessarily) your overall post. And I don't usually imply stuff when disagreeing with someone, so there is no need to read between the lines.

Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Dec-2009 at 10:22 AM.
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Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Dec-2009 at 10:19 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Dec-2009 at 10:18 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Dec-2009 at 10:17 AM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@KimmoK
msconfig is a hidden "secret" power-user tool, because it can break Windows if you don't know what you are doing. No need to feel ashamed about not knowing about it. BTW, your IT guys will probably not be too keen on you using msconfig!

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@DAX

I agree.
For example if I wanted to do my work @ home, I would be able to do some parts on AOS and the rest in linux. Currently it just needs some extra hobbying around the task to get things done, instead using the laptop from workplace.
(but I've promised that I do not take work to home any more, the time at home is too valuable to me, not to mention that I would anyway ruin some of it in winhell without pay)

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

There is nothing wrong to call it a hobby system. I mean its personal. I call mine hobby sometimes and other times its professional for me depending on what i do. If i have some projects i want to fix it feels important. For example if i have a liveact i try to fix my music to sound good, to mix the whole project on a cd. So if something goes wrong with my mixing at the party i have a backup already mixed. Also if i have un unfinished tune i want to fix it before the party to have something new to play. Then i have to make gfx for a cd project with arteffect or other soft. Then i need to update my page (damn we dont have a good wysiwyg html editor, i use notepad), update some text on forums, facebook, myspace etc. Just the way a win/mac user would do but sure some stuff would be more timeconsuming like html editing.

All this would be easier with a moder modern system. But still you can do the most stuff if you have patience and we amigans do have that. We have waitied many "in 2 weeks", "when its done" :)

So in my opinion its up to the user to call what he wants his system. A user thats mainly on windows ofcourse would try to convince a coder on os4/mos that his system is a hobby. He on the other way would try to convince the win users its not like that. But no one of them will make the other think the other way. Its the way it is.

My cousin for sure dont use his windows professional. My other cousin uses his mac for both. For his professional its getting new music as he is a DJ. But thats all. My best friend uses fruity loops on windows and he is a pain in ass trying to get me over to use fruity. If i say maybe but i would probably go macos and use logic or other soft he says dont do that. You have to use win+fruity. So what he really wants is make me use the app. He gives the #### about the system. In the old times we used protracker and we always shared tips and tricks etc. That times are gone and he wants it to be like that again :) He always asks me before he updates some driver on his system, the boot etc. Hes afraid doing anything wrong even if i dont use the system. At work i do all the updates on windows and 3rd party apps as it seems the most window users dont know more then accepting a daily automatic update. At least the folks around me :)

Sorry for the much offtopic stuff. I seem to mix the feelings about a system and a user. Like hobby system and a hobby user :)

So feel free to call your system whatever you like. Its only you that knows and feels what you do on your system. As hobby, professional or something in between.

@DAX

Quote:

It depends on what you mean: if for you it means "you made a Hobby out of it" then fine (I have a friend who uses windows at work and have made of Macintosh his hobby from a long time), if you mean it is some sort of "Junior OS", that is plain wrong as the fact that the OS is not up to date is due to a series of unfortunate events and have nothing to do with AmigaOS being designated as a "Hobby OS".

I mean both. Most people (me included) use AmigaOS as a hobby. While I don't really like the term "Junior OS", I think this is just what it is.
The OS is not up to date and lacks many features that e.g. OS X, Windows and Linux have had already for years. The reasons for that ("unfortunate events") mean nothing to this fact. To outsiders of the whole Amiga-sphere, AmigaOS 4.x just looks as an attempt to recreate the look&feel of the old Workbench on an odd niche platform (PPC) with some added new features.

Quote:

AmigaOS is now actively developed and free to form commercial partnerships.

I doubt there is much interest for other companies to form such partnerships after they found out that there is just a tiny userbase for this platform.

Quote:

Back then Amiga offered alternatives (which is still true up to a certain extent) but nowadays what we should aim at is applications that offer "compatibility" with other apps formats (so that you can exchange files even if you do not use the same app). The latter will come worry not.

No, I am quite sure there won't be any Amiga-based applications that offer compatibility to the specialised formats I am using at work (no, I am not referring to .doc or xls-files).

_________________
This signature is in the middle of a much needed facelift!

@DiskDoctor

W heater you want it or not, it is still a hobby OS, nothing more,
nothing less.... and it will stay as a hobby OS for a quite long time
in the future...

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

@eXec
...You are the Most Boring Man in the World... This topic is ready for lock!

_________________
--

Amiga x5000 ı o2o ı 4GB RAM ı RadeonRX580 | SBlaster Audigy Fx - AmigaOS4.1 FInal Edition

A1200 sandwich :)

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@VooDoo

Dude......get yourself a core i7....

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

@eXec

Point yourself to #i7, #windows, #cubase whatever x86 :)

My system is both hobby and professional :p

Last edited by Kicko on 23-Dec-2009 at 11:45 AM.