@Lecta

Managed to create a nullmodem cable by using some old DB9-RJ45 connectors and a crossed TCP cable. Will see if I can capture some debug output

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

Thanks to everyone who visited our area at the VCF show. We had a great time meeting so many of our customers. It was good to see so many active Amiga users attending the show.

Special thanks to Amiga North Thames for organising the Amiga part of the event.

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Amiga Kit Amiga Store
Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | A600GS

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @SHADES It's obviously not worth arguing with you, when you say ridiculous stuff like: Quote: SAM can't compete with my OS3.9 Win UAE computer OS3.9 was nice when it came out, but it simply doesn't compare at all to OS4.1, no matter how fast a CPU it is run on. Seems you share the same, ummmm, "quirky viewpoint" (*) as Umisef (* = this is me being polite) Quote: Why oh why the hell didn't they pick a standard Intel board or something ad port like that. Sigh. Because you wouldn't be able to run any of our existing PPC software (and quite possibly none of the 68k software either), at least without vast sums of money that they don't have. Quote: SAM is totally under powered Again proving it isn't worth even trying to debate with you, as you're talking about things you obviously know nothing about. OS4 runs on my 667Mhz 512MB Sam440 quite nicely, thank-you-very-much. Sure, a bit more speed for some things would be nice, but it's no way "totally underpowered" unless you only want to use it to play multi-player Quake 3 (which would be silly).

1. Why not? bring out EMU for OS4 then. Should work fine.

2. huh? What vast sum of money are they going to make of selling 30 or so over priced PPC boards! I run 68000 Code just fine under Emulation!, why not PPC?? I got 4 cores on my x86, 3 of those could be used for Emulation alone!

4. If I didn't know what I was talking about, why did I just answer your other 2 questions! You obviously are more interested in provoking a reponse than adding in any type of constructive argument. You saying I'm wrong doesn't mean i am wrong when I can clearly backup my arguments with FACT.

Here's one FACT for your incorrect comment above. WinUAE and UAE and fellow ALL run 68000 code just fine under an x86 enviroment. Not just that, but CUSTOM hardware chipsets as well at the same time. Seems to me you're the one not knowing what they are talking about because it would cerainly be possible for a PPC CPU to be emulated.

What a shame that Umisef was almost taken to court over his Amithlon software. I AM starting to understand why he did it in the first place! PPC is EXPENSIVE!

I play Quake on my OS3.9 Emulated AMIGA and it's like lightning. As for comparing OS4, well, looks like thats going to be MUCH harder for anyone now! esp if you want to get on the "New Gen" hardware that has xmos support and some minimal hardware expansion slot abilities!

Last edited by SHADES on 21-Jun-2010 at 01:28 AM.
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It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

@ChrisH

x1000 is supposed to be the "new" hardsware standard. With xmos built in and support for tinkering that made the AMIGA great in the past. It's expandable and has much better power than the SAM
I don't think you can class Ford Vs Ferrari when looking at SAM Vs x1000

SAM is underpowered and uner exapanable.

The PRICE point for PPC makes it stupid to keep re-inventing the wheel with custom motherboards.

the PRICE point for PPC makes the userbase SMALLER.

I'd like to see you debate a hypthetical AMIGA userbase takeup with available cheap hardware base and re-ported os Vs Very expensive custom mainborad userbase takeup.

If this IS a hobby OS, wouldn't it make sense to use what is already available??

Perhaps it IS time to start thinking about Cheaper ALTERNATIVEs without compatibility for PPC. The Compatibility IS there for 68000, that work is done. Maybe we need to pull ALL our resorces together to bring $$ to a project that WILL allow cheaper hardware and a future. I'm sure I remember the Frieden Bros saying 20,000 is enough to port to another code base. Maybe it's time for the community to go this route. It's just getting to expensive.

Yeah yeah, cry cry. It's all been said before. I was really looking forward to this launch till I found out, I won't be part of it. you don't care? so what. I don't care if you do or not.
Looks like I will be running Emulation for the rest of my AMIGA experience, thanks to ppl like you thinking all this cost is reasonable for a hobby, kicks me out anyway. So what choice do I have there.

Maybe I will have to leave and you can have 1 less in your "exclusive" AMIGA club.

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It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

@SHADES

I present to you "OS4 on Emu":

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A1200, 68060/64MB/1.2GB/WiFi/AGAtoCRT/OS3.9 Pegasos I, G3 600Mhz/512/9200SE/80GB WinUAE, Ryzen 5 2400G/Vega11, 8GB DDR4, 256GB SSD,Win 10 Pro x64 Amiga Forever !

@DBAlex

Makes me want to cry more.

Look, I'm upset.

It's expensive. Looks like whilst OS4 remains on PPC ALL AMIGAS will be expensive.
And That Sux.

I'll just go "moan" somewhere else.

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It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

@SHADES

Quote:

2. huh? What vast sum of money are they going to make of selling 30 or so over priced PPC boards! I run 68000 Code just fine under Emulation!, why not PPC?? I got 4 cores on my x86, 3 of those could be used for Emulation alone!

The main problem seems to be that x86 can't emulate PPC in decent speeds.

Apple seems to have managed that with their Rosetta, but Rosetta just translates G3 and G4 code into x86-code, it does not emulate a PPC cpu.

How long did it take WinUAE to manage to emulate an A500?

That did not happen overnight.

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Site admins are people too..pooff!

@tomazkid

Yeah, I agree. it won't be as fast. but it can be done. I doubt it's going to be unuseably slow under Emu on a nice quad core AMD. hell the whole AMIGA 4000 060 runs damm quick with all the custom hardware and bsd devices etc.

PPC just seems to be quite elitest in the $$$ game.
Not to mention, technology devlopment moves a lot slower on the PPC side. With Northbridge and so forth interconnect chipsets.

Most can't afford to play like this anymore. I'm saying this is not a way to bolster ranks. I can't afford it, I'm sure there are others. We need to start thinking about realistic alternatives cause this future is looking like a $$$ farm to me now. As in I need a farm that grows $$$ so I can spend it on the AMIGA.

Last edited by SHADES on 21-Jun-2010 at 01:51 AM.

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It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

@SHADES

Quote:

Look, I'm upset. It's expensive. Looks like whilst OS4 remains on PPC ALL AMIGAS will be expensive. And That Sux. I'll just go "moan" somewhere else.

I remember that the cost of an A4000 was between 1600 to 2000 UKP here in Sweden, several years after C= bancrupty, and the montly salaries were lower back then.
Highend Amigas has always been expensive.

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Site admins are people too..pooff!

@SHADES

So your upset because you want something you can't afford?

Theres 12162712712 things in the world I may want but can't afford... I've wanted OS4 hardware for ages (approx 5 years)... I just can't afford it with needing to pay for student loans etc... so I enjoy the machines I have.

I don't see your point. Yes Amiga has always been expensive, and yes X1000 is a premium product, of course so is the Sam.

This is LOW PRODUCTION hardware, it's not bargain basement mass produced X86 HW.

Last edited by DBAlex on 21-Jun-2010 at 01:53 AM.

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A1200, 68060/64MB/1.2GB/WiFi/AGAtoCRT/OS3.9 Pegasos I, G3 600Mhz/512/9200SE/80GB WinUAE, Ryzen 5 2400G/Vega11, 8GB DDR4, 256GB SSD,Win 10 Pro x64 Amiga Forever !

@tomazkid

Quote:

tomazkid wrote: @SHADES Quote: Look, I'm upset. It's expensive. Looks like whilst OS4 remains on PPC ALL AMIGAS will be expensive. And That Sux. I'll just go "moan" somewhere else. I remember that the cost of an A4000 was between 1600 to 2000 UKP here in Sweden, several years after C= bancrupty, and the montly salaries were lower back then. Highend Amigas has always been expensive.

But they were COMPETING back then, it wasn't a HOBBY. This PC won't compete with todays standards and besides, it took me 3 years to save for my AMIGA 4000.

I can't afford a HOBBY PC in this range! and it's never going to go anywhere on this price range.
People aren't going to flock to it like this??? What are we thinking!

I love AMIGA, but this, this made me cough.

Fine if it was a cheaper entry base, Sure people would adopt it, just for fun playing with it.
I got WinUAE for this reason.

Last edited by SHADES on 21-Jun-2010 at 01:57 AM.

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It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

@DBAlex

Quote:

DBAlex wrote: @SHADES So your upset because you want something you can't afford? Theres 12162712712 things in the world I may want but can't afford... I've wanted OS4 hardware for ages (approx 5 years)... I just can't afford it with needing to pay for student loans etc... so I enjoy the machines I have. I don't see your point. Yes Amiga has always been expensive, and yes X1000 is a premium product, of course so is the Sam. This is LOW PRODUCTION hardware, it's not bargain basement mass produced X86 HW.

Worng. I DID have it. I was using it.
Now I have been kickked out of the club.

So CHANGe the platform! Look elsewhere. Think of an alternative. let's all put in for porting to an AFFORDable platform! It's not like we have a compteing OS ANYWAY.

Looks like I will retire my AMIGA account and go elsewhere. I can't afford to stay and no one else seems to think this price point is a bad idea. Everyone else seems to think it's very reasonable. Too bad for me eh. There's the door SHADEs, on your bike, pitty it's pedal powered .laugh laugh laugh

Last edited by SHADES on 21-Jun-2010 at 02:01 AM.

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It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

@SHADES

I don't think it's reasonable, but it's the price for premium hardware that's made in small batches...

What else can I say.

I agree Amiga is becoming an expensive hobby where OS4 is concerned! Hence, see my machines my sig...



If you want a powerful next-gen Amiga for general stuff why not get an eMac or a Mac Mini and the latest MorphOS 2.5?

Last edited by DBAlex on 21-Jun-2010 at 02:02 AM.

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A1200, 68060/64MB/1.2GB/WiFi/AGAtoCRT/OS3.9 Pegasos I, G3 600Mhz/512/9200SE/80GB WinUAE, Ryzen 5 2400G/Vega11, 8GB DDR4, 256GB SSD,Win 10 Pro x64 Amiga Forever !

@DBAlex

Quote:

DBAlex wrote: @SHADES I don't think it's reasonable, but it's the price for premium hardware that's made in small batches... What else can I say. I agree Amiga is becoming an expensive hobby where OS4 is concerned! Hence, see my machines my sig... If you want a powerful next-gen Amiga for general stuff why not get an eMac or a Mac Mini and the latest MorphOS 2.5?

But who is going to buy it though? Dosent even seem like they will be able to get rid of the 100 developer/beta test boards judging by the polls and responses to that news.
The community is already insanely small and the high price will mean that this system will only appeal to a small fraction of this already small community.

I truly hope i am wrong..

@SHADES

I, for one, sympthesize with you. However, after hearing that the price of an X1000 could be around $3000, I've given up on it. I might be able to pay around $2000, but not over that. So I'm thinking about the SAM 460 instead. Anyway, at the rate things are going, it could be another year before the X1000 is fully delevoped with Amiga OS modifications and drivers. I'd be satisfied if only one person in the world buys one and will share the experience with the rest of us.

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X5000 / microA1(OS4.1 FE U2) / CodeBench / Imagine / Blender
Lightwave 2019 / Microsoft Visual C++

@Tommo1975

Quote:

Tommo1975 wrote: Hopefully the drivers will be there to enable to plug in a SATA card into the PCI slot, a decent graphics card into the PCI-E x4 slot and a sound card into the PCI-E x1 slot

I saw a statement from ACube somewhere that said the PCI-e x1 slot was faster than the PCI. I fthis is the case then you'd be better served to get a PCI-e x1 card with SATA/PATA, replacing the onboard SATA, and stick a PCI sound card in.

As the PCI slot is 33/66MHz, and the 460ex has PCI-e v1.1 (250MB/s), the PCI slot would be slower @ 33MHz, but faster @ 66MHz.

Do sound cards work @ 66MHz? Do 32-bit SATA addon cards run @ 66MHz? You pays your money, you takes your chances.

Besides which, the AMCC 460ex (and thus the SAM460ex) already has 5.1 digital audio built in. No need to buy a discrete card for everyday use. Professionals may need something more powerful I guess, in which case they might find a 66MHz PCI card which should then perform faster. All around, PCI-e for SATA, PCI for sound.

tiffers.

@SHADES

Quote:

Quote: I remember that the cost of an A4000 was between 1600 to 2000 UKP here in Sweden, several years after C= bancrupty, and the montly salaries were lower back then. Highend Amigas has always been expensive. But they were COMPETING back then, it wasn't a HOBBY. This PC won't compete with todays standards and besides, it took me 3 years to save for my AMIGA 4000.

No. The Amiga (in Australia at least) was NOT competing after around 1991. 1992 saw the introduction of AGA and it was under powered compared to PCs. PCs had better sound, and more colours on-screen simultaneously, and almost always included a hard disk. These were the selling points for most people. AGA didn't cut it versus PCs in 1992 when it came out, and I was sorely disappointed. I couldn't afford an AGA machine (nor my parents at the time) and I was hoping to save up and get an A4000. Then C= went bankrupt and I just gave up all hope (as I was eagerly awaiting the AAA chipset, which should have blown PCs out of the water by all comparisons at the time)

Amigas started out 'cheap' (to get a PC with more than 4 colours and 'digital sound' was heinously expensive when Amigas came out) compared to PCs, but they didn't stay cheap. ECS A500s were where it was at. After that things began to fall behind. You paid more for a floppy based A1200 than for a 486 with HDD and better video / sound. I believe the A4000 came out after that, and everyone just laughed at the price of it in Australia.

It wasn't a hobby, I agree, but it was certainly a thing of the past, due to the well known delayed releases and foul ups made by the then Commodore management.

I can see the value in the new X1000. It's not got the benefit of mass production, so the price is hefty, but I will TRY to get one myself, and I have a family too. And using a figure of £1600, the X1000 comes in well under AUD$3000. Given shipping costs, it may well hit the $3000 mark. And for people using USD, the figure is even better $2500 max with shipping.

Hyperbole really is pointless. Stick to facts please, and remember, you're not always going to get what you want. The SAM460ex with a PCI-e SATA controller and a PCI-e video adaptor should be a decent system by all accounts (In the VCF videos posted in the last couple of days, Trevor says that that SAM 460ex should perform better than the Pegasos II, which had been the best NG AmigaOS board available to date - his words.)

You could get one in September, before ANYONE gets an X1000, and have one of the best modern 'Amigas' available. Got anything you could sell off (perhaps get that A4000 sorted out and ebay it. That'd net you around $500 easily. Just $500 to save in the next 3 months, or sell something else laying around not in use?)

tiffers

Last edited by tiffers on 21-Jun-2010 at 03:50 AM.

@thinkchip

Quote:

thinkchip wrote: I, for one, sympthesize with you. However, after hearing that the price of an X1000 could be around $3000, I've given up on it.

See my post above. Depending on the currency you're basing your calculations on (I'm guessing USD for you), the price may be well south of $3000, almost as low as $2400.

tiffers

@all

We heard the same aurgument when the A1s came out, to expensive. Thing was, they sold out to the point where those that waited lost out until the SAM came out. Thats not a problem this time, but if you can't afford an x1000, there's a good chance you can't afford a SAM either. Most of us waste what money we have every day, if you really pay attention to were your money goes, you could save for a new system over time, you don't need to buy the day it hits the street.

I knew a girl at work that said she couldn't afford to put any money in a 401K plan. I finally convinced her she wouldn't miss 2 or 3% of her check every week. By the time we parted ways, she had $20K in her account, more money they she ever thought she could save in a life time.

Everyone can do it, just a matter of discipline if you want something bad enough.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

Well said.

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Sent from my Quantum Computer.