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ChrisH
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 11:51:21
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 30-Jan-2005 Posts: 6679
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Kronos No need to get upset, nor put words into my mouth. Just seems strange for new version of some 3rd-party software to suddenly stop supporting OSes (AmigaOS3 & AmigaOS4) which were previously supported, without any apparently good reason.
Imagine that (say) Hollywood suddenly stopped supporting MorphOS in it's next version, but kept supporting AmigaOS3, OS4 & AROS. Wouldn't you find that a bit, hmmm, unfair? Of course the author can do whatever they like, including abandon it completely, but.... Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Aug-2010 at 11:53 AM.
_________________ Author of the PortablE programming language. It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue... |
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Kronos
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 12:20:15
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 2713
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| @ChrisH
Suddenly ???????
-MUI38usr.lha is listed 1997-02-15 on Aminet -in 2000 (or late 1999) laire got stuntzi's o.k. to make a PPC-version to be included into MorphOS -in late 2001 stuntzi gave that version over to Hyperion for inclusion into OS4 and with a restricted licence.
So MUI for 68k is "dead" for 13 years, and the OS4 version was allways seen as a stopgap-measure to support legacy apps (and that for allmost 9 years) .
People inside the MorphOS-team (which may or may not include stuntzi) did develop their version further as they see it as an intregral part of their OS.
Hyperion did have the chance to buy in further going rights, but by the reasons outlined above they declined.
Bout Hollywood, if I were to buy it, I would buy it based on features it has today and on those only. If further updates appear nice, if not ...... shrug..... it's not like I paid for those.
All MUI-AmigaOS-apps (68k or PPC) work (or should work) with the MUI-version supplied with OS4. All 68k-MUI-AmigaOS-apps work with MUI3.8.
Supplying AmigaOS with an intregral part of MorphOS would only make it easier to port MorphOS-apps over. Something you might welcome, something that might be considered "nice", but nothing you have any right demanding. _________________ - We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet - blame Canada |
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Fab
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 12:37:22
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Joined: 17-Mar-2004 Posts: 1178
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| @ChrisH
By the way, i had missed that detail:
Quote:
Although ReAction was a 3rd-party add-on, it got absorbed into OS3.5 as the official GUI solution (long before MOS existed), [...].
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If we're only considering the release dates, 3.5 was released in december 1999, and MorphOS 0.1 in August 2000. So that's clearly not that "long" before.
But it's actually irrelevant: MorphOS has been worked on since 1997, and MUI was probably already ported to MorphOS in 1999 already. |
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itix
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 12:52:12
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 22-Dec-2004 Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world | | |
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| @Fab
MUI was also ported to another commercial OS I can not remember anymore... _________________ Amiga Developer Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook |
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Fab
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 13:19:37
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Joined: 17-Mar-2004 Posts: 1178
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Develin
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 13:23:25
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Joined: 16-Mar-2006 Posts: 443
From: Karlstad, Sweden | | |
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| @Fab
Yeah, sure was (CaOS) =) They even had Voyager up and running on that baby =) Last edited by Develin on 23-Aug-2010 at 01:34 PM.
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ExiE
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 13:49:29
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Joined: 18-May-2004 Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News | | |
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| @Kronos
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Hyperion did have the chance to buy in further going rights, but by the reasons outlined above they declined. |
Hmpf, but we are not talking here with or about Hyperion, but about users. So my question is, did the users get same chance you are talking about? I guess not.
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Supplying AmigaOS with an intregral part of MorphOS |
Its not just about AmigaOS, but also AROS and if this would succeed, it would help developers across all "amiga" platforms same as users. |
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Kronos
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 14:10:34
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 2713
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| @ExiE
Again, users got what they paid for.
MUI3.8 for 68k that is !
If they decided to use other OSes (be it AROS or OS4) they can't expect support.
Now I have nothing against porting/reimplementing MUI4 for other OSes, I just can't stand certain people thinking the have some sort of "birthright" to such a port. _________________ - We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet - blame Canada |
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pavlor
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 14:29:51
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
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| @ShInKurO
I fear that in the day when your bounty will be completed, Reaction GUI will be as good as (or better than) MUI4 and there will be MUI5 for MorphOS...
As I see it, we have 3 OSs with their own GUI: AmigaOS with Reaction, MorphOS with MUI4 and AROS with ZUNE. Yes, it is not good for developers, but it is fact we can´t change. |
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vidarh
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 14:34:05
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Joined: 4-Jan-2010 Posts: 580
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Metalheart
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 14:56:03
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 21-Aug-2003 Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains.... | | |
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| So ? Anyone already doing something for this bounty, or are things still being discussed ?
_________________ Theres a time to live and a time to die When its time to meet the maker Theres a time to live but isnt it strange That as soon as you're born you're dying |
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ShInKurO
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 16:05:13
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Joined: 18-Jan-2004 Posts: 465
From: Italy | | |
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| @Metalheart
IMO It's necessary to define second step of this bounty, if you all help then we can finalize it and to send it to power2people. |
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bernd_afa
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 16:33:32
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Cult Member  |
Joined: 14-Apr-2006 Posts: 829
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Kronos >People inside the MorphOS-team (which may or may not include stuntzi) did >develop their version further as they see it as an intregral part of their OS.
I think stuntzi do all in all very very few on MUI 4 and have since years not written any line of code.MOS team have mostly enhance MUI4.
Maybe somebody of MOS Team can confirm if thats correct what i think or not.
I know only that Stefan Stuntz is a active Mountan Biker which is lots time with his bicycle on tour.
here can read more in german about him.
http://www.alpenzorro.de/
http://www.bike-magazin.de/?p=2408
So thats the reason i think that Stefan have no motivation to do something with MUI4 since 2006(he his first tour) Last edited by bernd_afa on 23-Aug-2010 at 04:37 PM. Last edited by bernd_afa on 23-Aug-2010 at 04:34 PM.
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number6
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 17:10:34
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11663
From: In the village | | |
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| @pavlor
Quote:
I fear that in the day when your bounty will be completed, Reaction GUI will be as good as (or better than) MUI4 and there will be MUI5 for MorphOS |
I really think you could get a better picture of present and future if you read the link that ChrisH supplied.
But I also urge you and everyone else to remember that each post...each fact...is just a snapshot in time. Please do not dwell on any one individual post and draw a conclusion from just that one source. Shinkuro and others are looking for solutions, and hence avoid the historical banter.
#6
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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Tomppeli
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 17:52:51
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Super Member  |
Joined: 18-Jun-2004 Posts: 1652
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki | | |
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| @Kronos
Quote:
Again, users got what they paid for.
MUI3.8 for 68k that is !
If they decided to use other OSes (be it AROS or OS4) they can't expect support. |
I've never bought MUI license and don't know what is included in it. But if I bought it years ago I would not buy it for Motorola 68000 CPU or CPU family. I would bought it for AmigaOS. So if the license grants I can get any number of future updates for AmigaOS then I would definetly expect to get the latest MUI version for the latest AmigaOS version. Be it running on any CPU out there.
@thread And wasn't the most of the apps using MUI using mostly 3rd party classes anyway which have their source code publicly available. So you have to update muimaster.library/zunemaster.library only ? Is it big or small work ? Then use/recompile 3rd party 4.0 classes out of the box ?
Last edited by Tomppeli on 23-Aug-2010 at 05:54 PM.
_________________ Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE "Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray |
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pavlor
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 18:01:02
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
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| @number6
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I really think you could get a better picture of present and future if you read the link that ChrisH supplied. |
I only hope that this effort will not end like GTK2MUI wrapper.
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Shinkuro and others are looking for solutions, and hence avoid the historical banter. |
And they have my full moral support. It would be really good if such project could be completed soon. However, I don´t think we live in time of miracles. |
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wawa
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 20:40:43
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
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| @pavlor
Quote:
@number6
Quote: I really think you could get a better picture of present and future if you read the link that ChrisH supplied.
I only hope that this effort will not end like GTK2MUI wrapper.
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good example.
@tompelli:
since microsoft seems always to be a a good example too, you imply that having paid for a windows licence once entitles you to get any following version for free? good luck with it. Last edited by wawa on 23-Aug-2010 at 08:42 PM.
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ChrisH
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 20:50:51
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 30-Jan-2005 Posts: 6679
From: Unknown | | |
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| If anyone feels that I am attacking MorphOS or it's users, then it's probably time for me to drop this overly sensitive subject, since that is not the intention. I'd just like to hear some reasonable explanation about the MUI4 business, since I never heard one.
@Kronos I'm afraid I didn't follow the point you were trying to make, but I think you focused to much on a single word I wrote ("suddenly").
Dunno why you mention 13 years (todays date is not relevant), we are talking about : 1997 MUI3 was available for OS3, and "suddenly" (2-3 years later) in 1999 or 2000 MUI4 was MOS-only.
P.S. I do not claim "birthright" or any such nonsense. I just claim that (for example) if Hollywood stopped supporting some AmigaOS flavours in next version (say MOS) then alot of people would be quite surprised & upset (and I think you would be too). So I see no reason for not also feeling so about MUI4, even if it happened 10 years ago. If there was some good reason for this that someone could explain to me, then I'd love to hear it.
@Fab Quote:
So that's clearly not that "long" before. |
I don't feel that nit-picking is helpful here. Main point was that ReAction was absorbed into AmigaOS before MorphOS was released, so it wouldn't make sense to ask for it to be ported to MOS for free, anymore than it would be to ask for Intuition or some other OS component.
Also, I think MorphOS 0.1 (in August 2000) wasn't really MOS as we recognise today - I believe I tried it out on my BlizzPPC card, and IIRC used many AmigaOS components to run. It was more of a "enhance AmigaOS with PPC parts" then, but now it's a fully self-contained OS with a different desktop/etc.Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Aug-2010 at 08:59 PM. Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Aug-2010 at 08:55 PM. Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Aug-2010 at 08:54 PM. Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Aug-2010 at 08:52 PM.
_________________ Author of the PortablE programming language. It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue... |
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itix
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty) Posted on 23-Aug-2010 21:56:20
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 22-Dec-2004 Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world | | |
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| @ChrisH
Quote:
Dunno why you mention 13 years (todays date is not relevant), we are talking about : 1997 MUI3 was available for OS3, and "suddenly" (2-3 years later) in 1999 or 2000 MUI4 was MOS-only
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There was no MUI4 in 2000. It was MUI 3.9 which was ported to MorphOS 0.x and 1.x in its early years and after that Hyperion licensed and ported the same MUI 3.9 for their OS4 project. MUI4 didnt appear until 2005 or so. Tho, I think MUI 3.9 in MorphOS 1 was slightly more advanced than its OS4 counterpart and MorphOS version didnt have shareware restrictions.
There also existed MUI 3.9 for 68k but it was never released to the public. I know many notable Amiga developers had it in late 90s.
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I don't feel that nit-picking is helpful here. Main point was that ReAction was absorbed into AmigaOS before MorphOS was released, so it wouldn't make sense to ask for it to be ported to MOS for free, anymore than it would be to ask for Intuition or some other OS component.
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Does it matter? Both OS4 and MUI are/were commercial projects. ClassAct was project of Amitrix (AWeb developers) who donated source code to H&P.
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Also, I think MorphOS 0.1 (in August 2000) wasn't really MOS as we recognise today - I believe I tried it out on my BlizzPPC card, and IIRC used many AmigaOS components to run. It was more of a "enhance AmigaOS with PPC parts" then, but now it's a fully self-contained OS with a different desktop/etc
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MorphOS 0.1 only had ExecPPC and PPC native CyberGraphX 5 and it was deemed slow. MUI was key component to make Amiga software run at acceptable speed.
Last edited by itix on 23-Aug-2010 at 10:19 PM. Last edited by itix on 23-Aug-2010 at 10:05 PM.
_________________ Amiga Developer Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook |
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Gebrochen
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Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible Posted on 24-Aug-2010 2:29:47
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Joined: 23-Nov-2008 Posts: 1441
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