@DAX

So where are the customers for those PPC chips? By customers I mean desktop PC products? Which OS is going to run those PPC machines? How many can you sell without the option of running Windows or Mac OS X software? How will they compete with dirt-cheap x86 and ARM CPUs that are currently either selling or are soon to come?

Those PPC chips are not intended for desktop users, one would think...

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@paolone

Quote:

When I read replies like yours, I wonder why we just don't rename "AmigaWorld" to "AmigaKinderGarden", it would be much more appropriate. The day you'll learn how to deal with adult discussions, please try again.

The day you bring an adult discussion I will. I've make the point that we're discussing an x86 clone with x86 OS's with and Amiga sticker on it and wonder why it should be included as an equal to native Amiga OS platforms. You reply with drivel.

Plaz

@Wizzard_o

Quote:

Wizzard_o wrote: @BigBentheAussie That's allot of bluster for a company that just produces stickers. Instead of just badge-engineering other manufacturer's PC's why not invest in REAL Amiga Technology and build an OS4 capable (Power PC) machine?

What's real about the neo-Amiga being an "Amiga". The neo-Amiga hardware is not even built around a GPU.



The neo-Amigas are more focused on the CPU than than yesteryear's Commodore-Amiga i.e. focusing on the "custom chipset"(1).

1. The GPU... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_processing_unit

The Commodore Amiga was the first mass-market computer to include a blitter in its video hardware, and IBM's 8514 graphics system was one of the first PC video cards to implement 2D primitives in hardware.

The Amiga was unique, for the time, in that it featured what would now be recognized as a full graphics accelerator, offloading practically all video generation functions to hardware, including line drawing, area fill, block image transfer, and a graphics coprocessor with its own (primitive) instruction set. Prior to this (and quite some time after on most systems) a general purpose CPU had to handle every aspect of drawing the display

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@WolfToTheMoon
The fact is, no matter how we want to differentiate between big enterprises and consumers, the first group isn't stupid and it's not willing to pay current PPC prices any longer, they are getting close to other vendors and this is a problem that will be dealt with.
The Power group is aiming at bringing their solutions at "down-to-earth" prices in order not to lose customers in the coming years.
Even if they don't slash prices at "PC" levels, it might be enough to produce a competitive machine at the price you usually pay for alternative computers (ie x86 macs).
Which should be enough to bring in a group of ex-amigans. As for mainstream, forget about it, no PPC Amiga nor x86 PC from CUSA will make a splash in the net-book inflated mainstream market (at least Aeon knows this, I'm not so sure about CUSA judging from some of their statements...)

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@Hammer
No OS3/OS4, its just a PC with a high end Video card(s), unworthy of the Amiga Name.

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@Hammer
You are wrong about this man, I wrote this in another thread and I will have to cut and paste it:

Yes we are entering the "heterogenous computing" age, and as I said many times what X-mos chip will end up being on board, will not be important as far as processing power go, that chip will be there just to tinker and learn, to make the Amiga platform the only community of developers perfectly fluent in parallel C.

It is the Xorro bus position to be very interesting instead, if it is true it will allow PCI-E type communication between the system and a cluster of X-mos chips than a flood gate of possibilities will open as we don't know what features 2nd and Third generation chips have. They might be able to 1st, take advantage of such transfer speed, 2nd have more memory, 3rd have an FPU (2nd gen) and/or Vector Unit (3rd gen).
Those that saw the Xmos road map are very exited.

Eventually this peculiar architecture might lead to an X2000 featuring a new muticore CPU (TD hinted that PPC CPUs with up to 32 cores will be avaialble, in the recent RT interview)
and who knows, a Xorro2 communicating at PCI-E 3.0 speeds.

Moreover openCL is still possible alone or in combination with fine-grained MP, so focusing on CPU seems a little far-off.

Last edited by DAX on 17-Oct-2010 at 02:51 PM.

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@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

Our AMIGA machines will have an unmistakable AMIGA flavour and should be competitive in the mainstream.

I'm intrigued by the possibilities and I look forward to the results. Maybe a thriving CUSA could unite and combine the other best efforts in the community for a real future. One can always hope.

Plaz

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote: @Wizzard_o Excellent suggestion. As for those that says PPC tech is dead and too expensive, it would seem a change will happen. Trevor Dickinson in his latest RT interview mentioned a big movement in the Power scene, a movement that will lead to 32 cores PPC CPUs and the availability of lower cost components. IBM just declared they are back at further developing both the Cell and new Power8 cpus, moreover FreeScale, rumored to exit the Power market, just renewed its trust, by releasing a powerful family of new CPUs that will scale from 2 to 8 cores (like their previous generation already avaialble in 8 cores version, the difference this time is the focus on new powerful FPUs). Then there is also AMCC, don't think Titan will be their last chip either. All in all PowerPC is getting a come back.

On graphics/parallel data processing, all dead on arrival i.e. AMD Llano (cGPU) comes with GpGPU 480 stream (Integer/Floats) processors (~1 TFLOPs).

AMD Llano would render Itanium's Explicit Instruction-Level Parallelism (EPIC) concept to be insignificant.

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@Hammer
Quote:

On graphics/parallel data processing, all dead on arrival i.e. AMD Llano (cGPU) comes with GpGPU 480 stream (Integer/Floats) processors (~1 TFLOPs).

In another thread I was the first to say you don't need powerful CPUs to run Word Processors, and that parallel data processing should be handled by dedicated HW.
The X1000 will have no troubles there.

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@Shufflepuck

Quote:

As much as I am "platform agnostic" these (eventual) AmigaPCs are somewhat a slap in the face for community members who breathed and lived the Amiga soap opera of the past 10+ years but I understand there might be a market for these

Perfect. So a company which hopes to sell thousands (in order of 100,000+) exemplars of their "replicas" should stop their plans only to respect the feelings of a few hundreds of people? I'm sorry to say this, but Barry Altman and C=USA just saw a business opportunity and caught it: maybe those few hundreds should get back to reality, shouldn't them?

15+ years of progressive shrinking of this community, and perpetual lack of competitive products weren't enough to prove them being wrong?

@paolone

Quote:

Perfect. So a company which hopes to sell thousands (in order of 100,000+) exemplars of their "replicas" should stop their plans only to respect the feelings of a few hundreds of people? I'm sorry to say this, but Barry Altman and C=USA just saw a business opportunity and caught it: maybe those few hundreds should get back to reality, shouldn't them? 15+ years of progressive shrinking of this community, and perpetual lack of competitive products weren't enough to prove them being wrong?

+1

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Poss off-topic, but BigBen has said that Commodore USA has carte blanche to do pretty much whatever it wants with the Amiga name (if I remember correctly).

But to our knowledge, they don't have quite the same freedom with the Commodore trademark (which they're using as the name of their company).

Does this create branding difficulties? Technically it sounds like they could make a product that they could call an Amiga, without been able to slap the word Commodore (their company name!) on it.

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@terminills
@paolone

Have either of you ever used OS4?

Thought not.

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@DAX

Quote:

Yes we are entering the "heterogenous computing" age, and as I said many times what X-mos chip will end up being on board, will not be important as far as processing power go, that chip will be there just to tinker and learn, to make the Amiga platform the only community of developers perfectly fluent in parallel C.

XMOS is not a GPU. The original Commodore-Amiga's custom chipset focused on workloads that the current GpGPU are focusing on i.e. graphics. Most HDMI GPUs are equipped with HDMI Audio support.

Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:15 PM.

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@Wizzard_o

i hope ppc is making a come back we can all sit back and watch apple switch back to ppc lol
while we are at the front of techno again.

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@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote: @Hammer Quote: On graphics/parallel data processing, all dead on arrival i.e. AMD Llano (cGPU) comes with GpGPU 480 stream (Integer/Floats) processors (~1 TFLOPs). In another thread I was the first to say you don't need powerful CPUs to run Word Processors, and that parallel data processing should be handled by dedicated HW. The X1000 will have no troubles there.

Old school word processors doesn't need powerful CPUs, but Office 2010's PowerPoint uses GPU(1).

1.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/office-2010-word-powerpoint-gpu,10447.html

Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:22 PM.

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@Hammer
I'm not saying they are GPUs, but as 1980s console like/raster graphics chipsets are no longer the way to go, i wanted to point out that future generation (2nd/3rd gen) chips might be used to handle Floats and Vector math along with a graphic card and openCL (the CURRENT way to go) in a heterogeneous way.
This is a very open architecture as far as heterogeneous computing goes, good for the x1000 but also leaving room for further improvements in an eventual x2000.

And being that the X1000 is just a first step aimed at Developers and AOS power users, I'd say it a good start to create a platform that in very Amiga tradition, offers different and/or complementary solutions to computing problems.

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@Hammer
It's good for PP users, maybe we'll get an OpenCL (or 2nd/3rd gen Xmos) accelerated version of Hollywood Designer

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Quote:

g01df1sh wrote: @Wizzard_o i hope ppc is making a come back we can all sit back and watch apple switch back to ppc lol while we are at the front of techno again.

It's unlikely they will be switching back i.e. Intel Sandybridge has a build-in GPU that beats AMD Radeon HD 5450 (80 stream processors). Intel Sandybridge's GPU handles both integer and floating point data. Intel Sandybridge's GPU has direct access to X86’s on-chip caches. Intel Sandybridge's also includes 256bit wide AVX SIMD (in addition to SSE4).

PS; Modern GPU includes hardwired specialised units(e.g. Early Z-Cull, Z-Cull, TMUs, ROPS, MSAA, Z-buffer lossless compression, 3DC+/BC6H/BC7 data compression and 'etc') and large register storage size i.e. it makes VMX128's 128 registers to be insignificant.

This is how the X86 world would boost their integer/floating point performance.

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@paolone

Quote:

15+ years of progressive shrinking of this community, and perpetual lack of competitive products weren't enough to prove them being wrong?

Clearly the painful truth.

C=USA is going forward. It may not be the popular choice amoung this crowd, but we should look to ways to leverage it to grow other popular AOS related projects.

All interations of Amiga Inc. have squandered their opportunities. This one might actually turn a profit, though it's not how many here would like to see it done. I hope at the same time it finds a way to bring life back to AOS also. The best of both worlds.

BTW, sorry if my typical twist of sarcasm annoyed you. Not intentional, that's just me.

Plaz