@Fab

Well, even if i don't agree at all with him i think to have understand what Slayer trying to say with the "native" term.

Currently MUI OWB is just a plain porting from MorphOS, as is of course it doesn't use any OS4 internal feature, nor optimizations and so on .. sure TW is even less and less so if i must say a 100% "integrated" browser with tons of OS4's specific feature at the end i wil say NetSurf

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@samo79

There's no real need for optimisations, actually (except if you mean hw cairo of Javascript JIT, but it's not available or specific to OS4, anyway). The baldly needed speedups were done in OS4 itself, with the accelerated P96/gfx driver routines that were much slower before update 4.

As for the specific OS4 features, i can only think of Ringhio notifications (I added support for MagicBeacon notifications in OWB MorphOS). What kind of OS4 "feature" could you possibly think of?

Last edited by Fab on 22-Feb-2012 at 01:11 PM.

@Fab

Well i admit i used a non correct term, as "optimisations" i didn't argue about speed, i meant mostly the various small MUI issues that comes during the porting procedure.

As you know Roman and Denill worked side by side with Thore in order to port the browser and the same time update the MUI 3.9 framework in order to support the various MUI4 APIs deps

It was of course a great job at the end, however many little glitch still (bookmark panel crash for example), also the browser in itself is not finished/refined yet, a stupid example: What happen if i try to start MUI OWB with AmigaOS 4.0/4.1 with an old MUI 3.9 release ?

It will crash badly or for example it will give to user a proper alert error and then skip ?

If MUI OWB was born on AmigaOS4 surely all these things would have been treated well at beginning, sure at the end all can be done and fixed later but still ..

Quote:

The baldly needed speedups were done in OS4 itself, with the accelerated P96/gfx driver routines that were much slower before update 4.

Accelerated P96/gfx driver routines comes with Update 3 not 4, however in general i didn't see all that speed difference.
Even before (with Update 2 + an uptodate MUI) all was fine and fast for me

Quote:

As for the specific OS4 features, i can only think of Ringhio notifications (I added support for MagicBeacon notifications in OWB MorphOS). What kind of OS4 "feature" could you possibly think of?

Well a proper support for URLOpen would be good, right now mailto address are not usable, just to say the first one comes in mind

Last edited by samo79 on 22-Feb-2012 at 01:37 PM.
Last edited by samo79 on 22-Feb-2012 at 01:35 PM.

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@samo79

Quote:

It will crash badly or for example it will give to user a proper alert error and then skip ? If MUI OWB was born on AmigaOS4 surely all these things would have been treated well at beginning, sure at the end all can be done and fixed later but still ..

Given the design of MUI, when you run on an older MUI version, you generally get an incomplete or degraded behaviour, but rarely a crash. Anyway, requesting a newer muimaster.library version now that it's actually available is of course doable (and it's about a 1s job).

Quote:

If MUI OWB was born on AmigaOS4 surely all these things would have been treated well at beginning, sure at the end all can be done and fixed later but still ..

Let me doubt it. Especially when i see Timberwolf still requires the user to guess the stack by himself (ok, the stack-guess game is funny for some). It's really not serious...

About URLOpen, why not, though i don't see why a new standard had to be invented there. All other apps use OpenURL. Maybe URLOpen should come with some OpenURL wrapper, at least.

@cha05e90

Quote:

Who's "we"? Daniel, Thore, Fabien and you?

"we" mean that i ask Fab if he agree if we will make some money on his work, and split it with him (as he original author), and because money will motivate me to work on os4.
Sure we will split money and with Deniil who help with mui porting, and to Thore who do a lot of work on mui itself , but that our internal problems.

@Spectre
Thanks a lot ! You are second one.

So, as far as i see, currently just 2 users in interest to say me "thanks" for previous work i do, you both for sure will be first ones who will have anything new.

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@Fab

Quote:

Let me doubt it. Especially when i see Timberwolf still requires the user to guess the stack by himself (ok, the stack-guess game is funny for some). It's really not serious...

Well you can't compare it with Timberwolf, this one is aswell a port from another platform, even more is a port from mainstream platforms with a completely different framework, attitude and so on .. TW is a project for an indefinitive future, we all know that it will need a LOT of time to be 100% usable and well integrated on an Amiga/Amiga like OS ..

Conversely I will compare MUI OWB with YAM or any other MUI related project
Say: if one started from scratch a MUI browser for OS4 (with all its specific functionalities) and then port as is to MorphOS

Quote:

About URLOpen, why not, though i don't see why a new standard had to be invented there. All other apps use OpenURL. Maybe URLOpen should come with some OpenURL wrapper, at least.

Personally i find URLOpen mechanism a lot better and friendly than the openurl.library, however a wrapper would be surely good

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@samo79

Quote:

Well you can't compare it with Timberwolf, this one is aswell a port from another platform, even more is a port from mainstream platforms with a completely different framework, attitude and so on .. TW is a project for an indefinitive future, we all know that it will need a LOT of time to be 100% usable and well integrated on an Amiga/Amiga like OS ..

The difference is that all this time and effort has already been put into OWB but not into TW

@kas1e


Quote:

So, as far as i see, currently just 2 users in interest to say me "thanks" for previous work i do...

Please make some kind of announcement in a NEW thread. I'm sure you will not wait for the next donations too long. Your request is hardly noticeable here...Many people use MUI-OWB everyday and like it. You were not so clear about developement for many months, do not expect that sudenly everyone will react so fast.

BTW. I can't use Polish specific characters...any chance to fix this important bug, did you track it down?

Last edited by mr2 on 22-Feb-2012 at 02:44 PM.

_________________
Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM R9250 128MB SB Live!

@mr2
Quote:

BTW. I can't use Polish specific characters...any chance to fix this important bug, did you track it down?

Sure everything can be tracked down and fixed. I just currently trying to finish some programming-book-related stuff (soon will make a news about), and after i will worry about muiowb with all that bountyes, etc

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@all

"Markku Heikkinen" make a donation to me as well, thanks for you as well ! Who is you here ?

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@samo79

Quote:

What happen if i try to start MUI OWB with AmigaOS 4.0/4.1 with an old MUI 3.9 release ? It will crash badly or for example it will give to user a proper alert error and then skip ? If MUI OWB was born on AmigaOS4 surely all these things would have been treated well at beginning, sure at the end all can be done and fixed later but still ..

If I recall correctly, it was stated that the public TW beta can crash on any OS4 version older than the current (which is afaik X1000-specific for now), no idea what would happen if you now tried to run it on the FIRST OS4 version that was released...

Sure, it's beta (and might be more likely to crash due to other bugs) but I wouldn't be surprised, if the final version requires features (Think of Cairo for starters) only available on the more recent versions (which includes at least one paid update, I think)

Also, as the code will be "as closed as possible", it won't probably be possible for any "outsider" developers to improve the compatibility with older versions.

@kas1e

Please start a new thread and open a new entry in amigabounty.net with details.

I'll also donate..

_________________
AmigaOS4 Beta-Tester
----------------------------------
Amiga X5000 8GB Radeon RX 560
Amiga A1222 2GB Radeon RX 550
Sam 460 2GB RadeonRX 550

@SinanG
Soon, but you feel free to donate without bounty as well :))

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@Fab

Quote:

It already supports lots of HTML5 features, you know. HTML5 isn't just about video and audio.

OWB-MUI has the weakest support for HTML5 in AmigaOS - 191 points (html5 test).
OWB 3.32 - 203 points.
TimberWolf 4 - 281 + 9 bonus points.

@kas1e

Hey, it's me!
I hope this little donation will make you even more motivated.
Your work for Amiga and Mui-OWB is worth of supporting.

_________________
5*C-64, C128, A500, A1200 PPC, Micro-A1(sold).....and X1000

@samo79
Quote:

Personally i find URLOpen mechanism a lot better and friendly than the openurl.library, however a wrapper would be surely good

I prefer OpenURL because it supports browser ARexx commands. If a browser is already open, OpenURL can send the URL to the already running browser along with commands to open a new window, use the current browser window, bring the window to the front etc. Granted, some of the newer browsers don't have the complete ARexx support needed to get full use of OpenURL. URLOpen loads a browser every time you send a URL which is just a waste of time an resources.

_________________
X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

@Mufa

It's only about compilation options if the old OWB versions scores less than Reaction OWB, since they're based basically on the same webkit revision (well, OWB MUI was actually 2 months newer).
But for your information, Odyssey on MorphOS scores 325 points + 15 bonus points.

FireFox 10 scores "only" 317 (+9 bonus), which is rather bad, because they didn't have to disable WebGL, workers, geolocation and a couple other things like i had to in OWB... :)

Last edited by Fab on 22-Feb-2012 at 04:01 PM.
Last edited by Fab on 22-Feb-2012 at 04:00 PM.

@Fab

Quote:

i can only think of Ringhio notifications

Oh, I really would appreciate the usage of the OS4 font system (which - in contrast to MUI OWB - Timberwolf already uses). I don't like having different font installs and subsystems used all over the system. This is no problem of your work of course - it is something the porters should adapt. I assume that this task shouldn't be that hard, 'cos in the end both are very similar and should be maintainable by some #IFDEF's...

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@cha05e90

Quote:

This is no problem of your work of course - it is something the porters should adapt. I assume that this task shouldn't be that hard, 'cos in the end both are very similar and should be maintainable by some #IFDEF's...

Fontconfig are fontconfig, and it used by the Fab initially. On morphos it also take time for first run to make a font cache and then use it. And it also and of course use the same "non native font system" , as on os4.

As for hard it or not: check the sources of muiowb on fab's page and you will see how easy is it. I.e. replacing of fontconfig on native font rendering are not that easy , and it for sure not ifdefs (you can check it for yourself). Joerg do it for ra-owb, but together with it he bring rendering bugs as well.

@Breed
Quote:

Hey, it's me!

Thanks :)

Last edited by kas1e on 22-Feb-2012 at 04:09 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 22-Feb-2012 at 04:05 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 22-Feb-2012 at 04:04 PM.

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@cha05e90

I agree getting rid of fontconfig would be a good thing. The problem is our OSes font API still lack a couple things to be fully up to what WebKit requires. Even fontconfig/freetype still lacks a couple things regarding complex rendering like ligatures (pango should be used instead to handle them).

And the job to replace the font system is not totally trivial, even if it's quite well isolated in webkit platform backend.