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      /  Recommendations for new gaming PC build
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elwood 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 29-Sep-2012 18:13:13
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3420
From: Lyon, France

@BrianK

Quote:
With Windows8 just around the corner I'd probably wait to buy a new OS.

Well I would not wait. I'd say buy Win7 before it's too late!

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ExiE 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 29-Sep-2012 19:30:25
#22 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

@elwood

Quote:
Will it be worth it to install WindowsXP Pro 64bit for a couple of weeks if this computer is only used for playing GuildWars2 during that time, or should we install the 32bit version of XP Pro, as recommended earlier in this thread?


Yes avoid 64 bit version of XP and stick with 32 bit WinXP and quickly jump to Windows7 64 ASAP. Actually if you plan to install computer with WinXP and buy Windows 7 next month, it is just pure wasting of time install computer twice.

About the speed, average FPS can be OK but once the game framerate occasionally dropping under 20, the PvP player is "attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis"...

Last edited by ExiE on 29-Sep-2012 at 07:40 PM.

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damocles 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 29-Sep-2012 19:45:54
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

BTW, the AMD A85X motherboards are out in the wild, including ASUS. According to AnadTech AMD is going to do an announcement on Oct 2 (Tuesday). Looking at what the A85X supports, you may want to hold off till Tuesday on deciding on buying which APU. If you check out that AnandTech link, it shows the gfx is on level with a GT 440 which should be good enough for GW2 till he can afford a higher end AMD GFX card.

Dang, I want one now.

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BrianK 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 29-Sep-2012 20:19:52
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@amigadave

Quote:
Llano APU
I have an A8 system. It's a great little machine. In the pages I linked to you may be able to get 29fps out of it.


Since current Llanos use the FM1 socket and new one's (coming in a week or less) use the FM2 socket I'd say if Llano is your game then hold off a week. Look at the newer Virgo which replace Llano. AMD said Kaveri (replaces Virgo) will use FM2 also. While it may cost a bit more your investment would be more future proof going with FM2.

Virgo A10 vs the Llano A8 - early reports are ~50% better graphics and ~30% faster CPU. Estimated cost for the A10 is under $150. If you want to try without a video card and use the built in video - Virgo A10 is a good call.


Quote:
ASRock A75 Extreme6 mobo
There are A75 FM2 and A85X FM2 motherboards coming out. I'd said check in a week.

Quote:
Kingston 8GB RAM
If you're trying to eek out gaming performace 4GB should give you ~2% better performance. Over 8GB. Also is this a single stick? Don't forget you want pairs of memory 2chips x 2GB is better than 1chip x 8GB.

Quote:
It should still be enough power, even after my Son purchases a discrete RadeonHD 6xxx, or 7xxx video card in a month or two, to improve the overall performance of demanding 3D games and other software.
Starting out with a much higher chip GPU performance if the buys a 7xxx card in a couple of months then he'll be even better off.

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_Steve_ 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 29-Sep-2012 23:10:10
#25 ]
Team Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2002
Posts: 6745
From: UK

@BrianK

There is no point in getting more than 4GB if using a 32bit OS though as the extra ram is ignored by the system. May as well just get a 64 bit Windows 7 and use that.

I wouldn't use XP for modern gaming, as the lack of DX10/11 support affects the titles looks. In some cases games are now dropping support for DX9 entirely (the last supported DX on XP machines).

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BrianK 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 30-Sep-2012 1:55:59
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@_Steve_

All in agreement with you. One of AmigaDave's goals is to save money. The game will run on 32bit Windows XP, which he has. So he wouldn't immediately need Windows 7. If he's going 8GB Memory it makes little sense to not use it and he should get Win7 64bit. But, he could wait and get it in the future.

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amigadave 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 30-Sep-2012 8:05:33
#27 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1551
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@_Steve_

All in agreement with you. One of AmigaDave's goals is to save money. The game will run on 32bit Windows XP, which he has. So he wouldn't immediately need Windows 7. If he's going 8GB Memory it makes little sense to not use it and he should get Win7 64bit. But, he could wait and get it in the future.


The reason for the 8GB of RAM is that it comes in two 4GB sticks and is intended to be there for the future when more programs will need more RAM, plus I figured since the design of an APU system does not have dedicated memory for graphics/video and must share the system RAM, instead of having a dedicated video card with 1GB, 2GB, and now I see some video cards with even 3GB of VRAM, I would put 8GB of combined RAM in this new build to be sure.

I know that the 32bit version of any OS cannot access more than 4GB (actually IIRC, is actually 3GB) of RAM, but I plan on trying to use the old 64bit version of WindowsXP Pro that I have had for a long time, but never really got used, due to the problem of lack of drivers and perhaps some other incompatibilities. If for any reason we can't use XP Pro 64bit to start out with so we can save some money for a few weeks, or up to 2 months, before we buy Windows7 Pro, then we will be forced into buying Windows7 Pro right away.

Thanks for the tip regarding the soon to be released A10 APU chips. If they are really released and available to purchase, along with a few motherboards to choose from, and if the price is not too much higher for the FM2 motherboard and A10 APU, it would be foolish if we did not go with that combination.

I also did more research on what Hybrid CrossFireX is and how it works. When I first started thinking of using the Llano APU, I was unaware that it was possible to combine the power of the video unit within the APU, with a real video card in the PCIe x16 slot, so finding that this is possible makes this decision to buy an APU system more desirable and makes even more sense. Hybrid CrossFireX allows my Son to buy a lower priced video card in the future and end up with greater video card performance than he might otherwise be able to afford on a low cost system.

I wonder if a triple CrossFireX video system can be created with two real video cards in PCIe x16 slots, combined with the video card portion of the APU? That would be sort of a crazy setup, but if two $75 video cards can be combined with the GPU portion of a $85 to $140 APU chip to add up to the video performance of a single $250 to $300 real discrete video card, that would be great, because it allows you to build up to that system slowly over time when you can afford to spend the cash in your pocket, instead of going into debt by using a credit card (which I stopped using 5 years ago).

I might use an A10 APU based system to upgrade my existing 3.0GHz Core2Extreme, quad core PC with a pair of SLI video cards a year or two from now, as I never want to spend the money that top of the line i7 systems cost. I paid top dollar 6 years ago for my Windows PC and was lucky that I decided to buy an extended warranty, because it died 3 or 4 times within 2-1/2 years, so they replaced it with a different model that was smaller, but had a more advanced and more powerful CPU, and I guess a more reliable design, as I have not had another motherboard failure since agreeing to the change.

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BrianK 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 30-Sep-2012 14:11:38
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@amigadave

If you want to go 8GB then get Windows 7 64bit edition immediately. The other reason I say that is the dual graphics (card + APU) requires DirectX10 or 11. In the future you'd have to just snap in the card.

In Llano the dual graphics mode gives about a 10-15% boost over graphics itself. As it's early this info is a bit harder to come by for the A10 Trinity chip. 3 GPU's would be cool but it appears the A10 chip won't do this either.

The other thing A10 has is the new RamDisk option.. (Hmm where was that
from?) One can use Ram as a drive, keep the game loaded in there and it'll all play out of memory. Supposedly this works with up to 64GB in the system. Though it looks like most motherboards will max out at 32GB.

Here's a comparision of the A8 chips. A10 is even better (of course)

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Darrin 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 30-Sep-2012 17:54:37
#29 ]
Team Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 1941
From: Lake Charles, USA

@ Dave:

How about this little beastie:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1889633&CatId=5138

•AMD Dual-Core A4-3400 2.7GHz processor; powers up the system
•6GB of DDR3 memory; enhances system management
•1TB HDD; provides massive storage for your data
•DVDRW; burns and plays CDs and DVDs
•AMD Radeon HD 6410D; enhances graphics performance
Windows 7 64bit included

$365

Tell your son to save his pocket money and he can always add a bigger graphics card later.

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thinkchip 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 1-Oct-2012 0:52:59
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 1113
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

@Aminicle

A lot of computers being sold now can't handle Windows 7 so they are sold with XP. This looks like a good opportunity for my usual rant about Windows bloat. It's gotten totally out of hand.

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Darth_X 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 1-Oct-2012 1:24:26
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2003
Posts: 2997
From: Vancouver Island, Canada

@amigadave

I know you're gonna hate me for saying this, but why don't you give your son some $$$ and let him buy what he wants?

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BrianK 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 1-Oct-2012 20:39:07
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@thinkchip

Quote:
A lot of computers being sold now can't handle Windows 7 so they are sold with XP. This looks like a good opportunity for my usual rant about Windows bloat. It's gotten totally out of hand.

Microsoft end of XP Retail sales was June 30, 2008. (over 4 years ago). Windows 7's minimum requirement is a 1Ghz processor and 1GB RAM. Maybe bloated to a computer that's 5 years old but not bloated on anything new you'd buy today.

Yes the Enterprise (business/government) can still get Windows XP. Many businesses haven't made the switch yet. That's the reason new PCs come with XP. The reason isn't 'can't handle 7' as you've written.

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BrianK 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 1-Oct-2012 20:41:43
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@AmigaDave,

With the advant of Windows8 one of the questions is how long will Windows 7 be good? Windows 7 is the most popular OS on the Internet. The 2nd being XP. Microsoft stated earlier this year they'll support Win 7 until Jan 14, 2020.

One can only guess but if Windows8 and Windows9 don't take off then I suspect Microsoft will extend the Windows7 EndOfLife Date as they did to WindowsXP. So Windows 7 still has many years of usefulness ahead.

Last edited by BrianK on 01-Oct-2012 at 11:49 PM.

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_Steve_ 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 1-Oct-2012 23:07:20
#34 ]
Team Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2002
Posts: 6745
From: UK

@BrianK

Windows 8 has managed to divide opinions quite a bit. It seems to be another "marmite" OS, people either love it or hate it. From the onset it seems to be aimed more at touch screen devices, and borrows heavily from the whole "app" thing (which is odd for a desktop OS).

Many are writing Win 8 off as another ME/Vista fiasco. To be fair, Windows 7 isn't that old and is very stable and well supported. There isn't really any great necessity to rush off into a newer version at this time.

I haven't used Win 8 myself, only seen some write-ups in magazines and many online experiences of it and the release candidates. I can't say as I was interested in the whole "Metro" look or app store idea.

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BrianK 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 1-Oct-2012 23:47:31
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@_Steve_

Sounds like we're in agreement again Steve. AmigaDave wants a good platform for his kid to game. We know Windows7 can do it. What changes or impacts Windows8 has is too soon to tell.

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thinkchip 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 2-Oct-2012 1:06:07
#36 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 1113
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

@BrianK

The minimum disk space for 64-bit Windows 7 is 20 GB. Vista was bigger. You don't call that bloat?

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Amiga 4000/1200/500/2500/1000 / VIC20 / C64 / SX64 / C128 / C16 / C116 / Plus/4 / PET B500
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Amiga_3k 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 2-Oct-2012 4:46:33
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Jun-2006
Posts: 817
From: Assen, Nederland

@amigadave

If it's buying time you're looking at with the use of WinXP then there is also the possibility to download and install Windows 7 (does it need to be pro?) and ignore activation for 30 days. This gives roughly a month to save-up the money for a license. There's even a way to extend the grace period to 120 days which gives you even more time to decide if you want it or not.

If you're really brave, you could also settle for one of the RCs of Windows8 although I can imagine that you will be left without support pretty soon.

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BrianK 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 2-Oct-2012 5:56:46
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@thinkchip

Quote:
The minimum disk space for 64-bit Windows 7 is 20 GB. Vista was bigger. You don't call that bloat?
Yup it's bloat.

However, it doesn't support your claim that.
Quote:
A lot of computers being sold now can't handle Windows 7 so they are sold with XP
Go to Dell.com and look at the computers. $339 is their lowest price for a computer and comes with 1TB of harddrive space. Roughly, 50x bigger than the Win7 requirement. That computer ships with Win7 64bit Home Edition not Windows XP as you tell us these computers exist that 'can't handle Windows 7'.

NewEgg has a 320GB drive (16x bigger) for $60. There's some smaller one's too but their price goes up because they make less of them, making them harder to come by.

I'm all against OS Bloat so yeah hate it. However there's lots of good reasons to hate Windows 7. Let's make sure we're being honest about why and not falsely claiming things such as a lot of modern systems sold today can't handle it.

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OldFart 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 2-Oct-2012 7:28:25
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 2925
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@BrianK

Quote:
I'm all against OS Bloat so yeah hate it.

Don't forget that people want 'something' for their money. If you up the size you can up the price (hm, rather nice salesman's wisdom...). Maybe MS is very well capable of downsizing the offering, this would not surprise me, but then they would not be able to do so for that same price, would they? People don't want to pay pay more for less, although they can be persuaded to shell out a little more money, provided they get much more content. Don't forget we're living in a era where 'quantity' yields more then 'quality'.

From IBM it was said that their adagium sounded like: "Big machines, big profits". Likewise from MS it can be said their's to sound like: "Big files, big profits".

Give the people what they *think* they want and plunder their bank account accordingly. They need not buy it, but they do.

OldFart

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amigadave 
Re: Recommendations for new gaming PC build
Posted on 2-Oct-2012 8:03:04
#40 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1551
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@Amiga_3k

Quote:

Amiga_3k wrote:
@amigadave

If it's buying time you're looking at with the use of WinXP then there is also the possibility to download and install Windows 7 (does it need to be pro?) and ignore activation for 30 days. This gives roughly a month to save-up the money for a license. There's even a way to extend the grace period to 120 days which gives you even more time to decide if you want it or not.

If you're really brave, you could also settle for one of the RCs of Windows8 although I can imagine that you will be left without support pretty soon.


Thanks for that link. It does not make any sense to install XP Pro 64bit, when we can use a free trial version of Windows7 Home Premium for 30 to 120 days free of charge and just buy the activation key any time before the free trial runs out. So that is what we will do. I just need to learn what the easiest way and where to download the Windows7.iso from, so I can delete the mentioned file that makes installing any version of Windows7 that you want to try out, and then burn the .iso to a DVD to do the actual installation with.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed so much to this thread. I knew that this was the right place to get advice, as Amiga users are always the smartest computer users I have ever found anywhere.

Hopefully the info regarding the A10 APU's is now released, since it is officially the 2nd of Oct. now, so I will go searching for what ever I can find, and see if pricing and where to purchase these for DIY computer builders, is available.

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