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pavlor 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 10:31:36
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9177
From: Unknown

@Overflow

Quote:
Indeed. I was a bit puzzled over pavlors reaction.


Dont get me wrong. I thought more direct approach would be better. However, my posts keep this thread in front, so even I serve purpose of this thread.

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amigakit 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:02:58
#22 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2380
From: www.amigakit.com

@K-L

What can I say?

AMIStore project has been a mammoth undertaking, personally I have put well over 1000 hours of my family time into developing the application, the download php functions, the server back office. That is not counting the more mundane admin work such VAT returns, accounting, invoicing and customer support.

Then there is the hundreds of pieces of correspondance I have sent to former developers who have left the Amiga trying to encourage them to consider working on paid projects again. A lot of these guys either did not get paid in the past so are very cautious or simply have too busy lives with their real jobs and families. Consequently, I am reliant on these developers finishing projects in their free time also. To help them, I beta test their applications and provide feedback which all takes valuable time.

You are forgetting the many projects that have successfully been released over the last few months and I suspect you do not realise how much work and effort it is to manage software projects in your spare time. Remember, my day job is AmigaKit and at home, I work on the AMIStore project, amongst countless other A-EON related tasks.

This is the reason in Amiga-land why things take longer: human resource, specifically, the lack of.

Last edited by amigakit on 13-Jun-2015 at 11:10 AM.
Last edited by amigakit on 13-Jun-2015 at 11:07 AM.

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BSzili 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:06:15
#23 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 397
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Your purpose seems to be popping up in threads like this, trying to stifle the discussion when someone voices criticism. I didn't see you complaining in the "AmigaKit a great company" thread, because they didn't send their praises directly to A-Eon/AmigaKit.
This thread was started to discuss whether filling up AmiStore with TBA apps is a good idea or not. You can already see pro and contra opinions.

edit:
Plus K-L got an official response too. Not bad for such a horribly ineffective way of communication.

Last edited by BSzili on 13-Jun-2015 at 11:07 AM.

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TiredofLife 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:09:45
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1667
From: Here

@amigakit

My advice would be to be more honest/realistic with announcements.
Add some sort of timescale instead of simply adding T.B.A to everything.

I contacted A-EON on the 21st of January and got a response the next day, which was great.

What wasn't so great was the actual reply, which was the Radiance iso is being generated at the moment.

Considering it's now June and there is no sign of it, that wasn't a very acuarate response.

Cheers.

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Overflow 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:12:43
#25 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1627
From: Norway

@TiredofLife

I would be surprised if they even knew when they will be done with the programs they have acquired.

Unless Lyle, Andy and Matthew completely forfeights sleep Im thinking they are operating under Blizzards mantra "Its done when its done".

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K-L 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:13:06
#26 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1387
From: Oullins, France

@amigakit

I was pretty sure you'd take it personally.

You haven't understood AT ALL what I was meaning.

Where did I say that AmiStore is rubbish ?
Where did I say that you did not take time to develop such a big app ?
Where did I say that many projects were not successful ?

What did you not understand in my first question ?

Why are you so much on the defensive whenever someone asks some simple questions ?

Don't you think that criticism is part of the debate instead of trying to portay me as en evil person ?

I will just try to reiterate my fist question : why not put away from AmiStore softwares that will never be released, that cannot be released or will be released in a few years ? What is the purpose to let them with "TBA" while you know that, for some of them, they will never be released ?

As you see, these 2 questions have nothing to do with all what you've answered above.

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pavlor 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:13:21
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9177
From: Unknown

@BSzili

Quote:
Your purpose seems to be popping up in threads like this, trying to stifle the discussion when someone voices criticism.


Im trying to have positive approach to all Amiga projects/undertakings. When I see some progress, I aplaud it - be it for classic or NG hardware, AmigaOS, AROS or MorphOS.

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amigakit 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:13:42
#28 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2380
From: www.amigakit.com

@TiredofLife

It is not about "honesty": sometimes when you are reliant on other people and other factors, things go wrong and projects slip. Unforeseen circumstances can impact projects for the reasons I have outlined above.

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pavlor 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:16:35
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9177
From: Unknown

@K-L

Quote:
, for some of them, they will never be released ?


What software you have in mind?

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Overflow 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:16:50
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1627
From: Norway

@K-L

Reading what Matthew wrote, I don't see him as overly defensive. Hes just outlining the workload vs what they got on the TBA list.

As such titles will be TBA for an unknown amount of time.

If anything, maybe they can add a option to filter out titles that are not released yet, but I don't see the big problem tbh.

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TiredofLife 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:27:26
#31 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1667
From: Here

@amigakit

I totally understand and accept that.
But to say the iso is being generated at the moment, suggests that those obstacles had been overcome in the case of Radiance.
This clearly wasn't the case.

Perhaps a blog on all upcoming software could be helpful here.
Then if there is some slippage, that could added to the blog.
Doesn't have to be overly technical, juts a few lines to say what the latest position is.

Cheers

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K-L 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:44:42
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1387
From: Oullins, France

@pavlor

Quote:
What software you have in mind?


Mplayer for sure will never be released on AmiStore (and some already paid for it).

And I guess DvPlayer will never be updated either.

@All

Thanks for your suggestions. My concern is : if I'm a new AmigaOS 4.1 user, I launch AmiStore and most of the software I want to buy are TBA. I wait for weeks and still the same without any explanation. Not really serious.

These software should be put away from AmiStore until real release and I'm pretty sure it can easily be done. I'd rather launch AmiStore and see new releases than new TBA...

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pavlor 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 11:55:00
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9177
From: Unknown

@K-L

In case MPlayer I agree.

What about new cathegory "comming soon to AmiStore" ("soon" ) separated from really available titles?

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newlight 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 12:57:53
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Sep-2007
Posts: 1730
From: Somewhere in Spain

@Overflow

I too.I agree with you because TBA programs are sometimes necessary to understand the needs of the market being a bit risky to release products that noone knows where will they reach or go

_________________
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AMIGA 500 German
CD32 unexpanded
Amiga 1200 Tower on AmigaKit since years
AMIGA 1300 030/50 Mhz/32 MB WB 3.9 with lots of games&demos
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lylehaze 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 12:57:56
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1128
From: North Florida - Big Bend area.

@K-L

Quote:
I'm wondering if it's a joke or anything else :


Score is not a joke.
It's a personal project that I have a great deal of time in.

Things like family and a job sometimes interfere with my Amiga time. That's called "life". It does not make my personal projects any less real, it only delays their completion.

Quote:
I was pretty sure you'd take it personally.

You haven't understood AT ALL what I was meaning.


You opened a topic titled after a personal project of Matthews, and opened with the sentence.
Quote:
I'm wondering if it's a joke or anything else :


Then you blame HIM for taking it personally??

I believe his response was far better tempered than your insult called for.
If you choose to spend your spare time insulting others, don't be too surprised if you get less than cheerful answers.

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Daytona675x 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 13:14:08
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2011
Posts: 491
From: Germany

@lylehaze
Quote:
Score is not a joke.

As far as I can see K-L did not say that Score was a joke.
His "joke or what"-statement simply refered to the long term TBA status of some titles. And calling that an "insult" is a bit over the top, don't you think?

Quote:
It's a personal project that I have a great deal of time in. Things like family and a job sometimes interfere with my Amiga time. That's called "life". It does not make my personal projects any less real, it only delays their completion.

No doubt on that. But that was not what he asked or what he was interested in.
He simply wanted to know why such programs are shown at all if they aren't done yet or if it's well known that it'll take some more month until they are done.
That's all.

Quote:
You opened a topic titled after a personal project of Matthews, and opened with the sentence... Then you blame HIM for taking it personally??

The topic's title clearly is "AmiStore: TBA".
If it had been "AmiStore: sucks" then I'd understand your problem
But this was not the case.
There was nothing personal at all. The topic is a very valid title for what to come:
a question about why there's so much TBA for so long.

My personal guess on TBA:
it simply makes AmiStore appear more "full".

And after all: it doesn't really hurt. A dedicated TBA filter / section like pavlor suggests might be a good solution, but I guess it's not really vital.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FE (sam460ex Radeon 9200 / RadeonHD), MorphOS 3.8 (PowerMac G4 733MHz Radeon 9000), AROS (x86), A1200 (060 80MHz Indivision MK2), A500, A600, CDTV
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lylehaze 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 13:31:18
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1128
From: North Florida - Big Bend area.

@Daytona675x

Quote:
And calling that an "insult" is a bit over the top, don't you think?


I think that opening a thread with the text "I'm wondering if it's a joke or anything else :"
is intended to insult, unless he is describing the work performance of a stand-up comedian.

Following that with enough "qualifiers" so he can pretend he didn't intend an insult is simply chicken shit.

He opened the thread with the intent to insult, and he succeeded.

Then he claimed he was misunderstood when offense was taken.

You are free to draw your own conclusions.

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Daytona675x 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 13:45:37
#38 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2011
Posts: 491
From: Germany

@lylehaze
IMHO you are massively overreacting. To me it looks like you read something into it that simply isn't there (there isn't one single word against AmiStore itself or Score, he only listed it as one of the titles with TBA status).
Even if you really wanted to interprete his (IMHO pretty harmless) words as an insult, then that insult would certainly neither be directed towards the application AMIStore nor against Score nor against the respective developers. It would be directed towards the guy who decides which apps get TBA status and which not.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FE (sam460ex Radeon 9200 / RadeonHD), MorphOS 3.8 (PowerMac G4 733MHz Radeon 9000), AROS (x86), A1200 (060 80MHz Indivision MK2), A500, A600, CDTV
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Bugala 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 14:27:58
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Posts: 636
From: Finland

Personally I didnt see neither the topic itself insulting nor AmigaKits answer defending.

Seemed to me like he was simply stating what is the reality behind Amistore, that it is not Itunes, and hence reasons for some things might not be so well based as Itunes decisions are.

maybe TBAs made it seem fuller like Daytona suggested, maybe he thought its good marketing, maybe he wanted for people to be able to check just from Amistore and be aware of what is coming...

Whatever it is, in the end it probably sticks to the point of, theres only one (or at least not too many) person responsible for whole store. He maybe thought it originally as being good idea, then the plan failed, and you can do only so much, hence fixing that situation wasnt the priority over other things, as after all, theres no real harm from that, except that it might seem bit funny and strange.


I would also like to point out that Amazon had Brian Bagnalls Amiga years book for preorder, then project got delayed etc. until finally cancelled. During long time Amazon didnt mention anything (despite date having passed for long), until finally (i suppose) cancelled the orders. Then got preordering back again (i suppose, i didnt check). Of course big difference was that Amazon wasnt involved in developing that book, unlike Amistore is from those programs, but main point being, that even Amazon wasnt too informative when considering that book, and Amazon has much more personnel, although much more products too.

All in all, answer is probably "it seemed like a good idea when I did it, but not so much anymore + i didnt really even notice that among all the rest of the stuff i have to do".

But I would also like to still point out that despite answer probably being what it is, it was still a valid question anyway.

Last edited by Bugala on 13-Jun-2015 at 02:29 PM.

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ExiE 
Re: AmiStore : TBA
Posted on 13-Jun-2015 14:44:06
#40 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

I think that putting software that is not yet available to AmiStore is (very) bad idea and there is in fact no reason to do so. There is no competition what so ever, so hyping products there is not the case. An announcement on AW.net/Amiga.org should be more than enough. Being Amigans in last 15 years means waiting "when it is done" and as you said

@amigakit
Quote:
sometimes when you are reliant on other people and other factors, things go wrong and projects slip.


...so there is no reason to make things even worse with unfulfilled promises, missed release dates, etc. Apps should pop in AmiStore when they are ready, with nice release announcement and big "buy now", not sooner.

BTW making nice small web presentation for each app in AmiStore on amistore.net would be far better way to promote AmiStore, apps, Amiga, AmigaKit and A-EON

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