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imagodespira 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 8:00:09
#21 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Sep-2009
Posts: 251
From: Germany

@Kronos

So Peg2 compared to Tabor:
- it is 10 years old !
- still expensive as old used system
- no longer available for purchasing (expect used rarely)

My hope is that it performes a bit better than sam460 and i am happy!

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TheDaddy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 8:37:49
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4499
From: Quattro Stelle

Mini-itx...finally! This is going to fit inside my latest X500 Pro...excellent! We need the full specs.

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pavlor 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 9:12:59
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9120
From: Unknown

@imagodespira

e500v2 offers higher integer performance/MHz than 460EX and supports more RAM. However, FPU is sloooow even with native binaries. I dont think it is so big problem - I used similar setup with WinUAE/OS4 - but some applications (eg. 3D games) depend on FPU performance.

Interesting enough P1022 SoC is more expensive than (much faster and fuly compatible) T1042 SoC... I hope 700 EUR price is for entire system, not just motherboard, still expensive.

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Trixie 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 9:14:52
#24 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1948
From: Czech Republic

I've been asking for a MiniITX-format solution for years, so I'll definitely be getting one of these to replace my Sam.

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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pavlor 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 9:20:15
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9120
From: Unknown

@TheDaddy

From what I see on picture(s):

AmigaOne A1222
P1022 1.2 GHz (2x e500v2 cores)
1x PCIe x16 (2.0?? x16/x4)
1x RAM (DDR3; 8 GB max)
2x SATA 2.0
1x DVI?? (from integrad GFX: DIU LCD controller; cant see details of this port between serial and audio)
Audio (again integrated via I2S of P1022 SoC)
2x USB 2.0 extern, 1x intern
1x Serial port
LAN port?? (next to USB)


Edit2: From P1022 fact sheet it looks like PCIe 1.0.
Edit3: LAN
Edit4: 2x USB 2.0 extern, 1x intern; max 8 GB RAM (info form os4welt.de by Xeno.
Edit5: Added full board name. Im the only one seeing "AmigaOne A1222" in Trevors AmiWest presentation?
Edit6: SATA seems to be 2.0

Last edited by pavlor on 25-Oct-2015 at 09:32 AM.
Last edited by pavlor on 20-Oct-2015 at 03:29 PM.
Last edited by pavlor on 17-Oct-2015 at 01:33 PM.
Last edited by pavlor on 11-Oct-2015 at 10:26 AM.
Last edited by pavlor on 11-Oct-2015 at 09:35 AM.
Last edited by pavlor on 11-Oct-2015 at 09:22 AM.

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Tuxedo 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 9:20:51
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2324
From: Perugia, ITALY

@imagodespira

Well...you are right but was pretty nonsense(or do you prefer weird?) to get a new mobo after about 4 years(?) and still same performance no?
I really hope that was T and not P based...and however at 1.2 GHz ateast 50% faster than G4 samw speed(also on fpu...)

Hope that on linux we can get some blender 2.48 render test soon...

EDIT: really gope that Tabior stands fir T....

Last edited by Tuxedo on 11-Oct-2015 at 09:22 AM.

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pavlor 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 9:23:48
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9120
From: Unknown

@Tuxedo

As I wrote, it is P1022 based, so e500v2 = slooow FPU.

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TheDaddy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 9:30:24
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4499
From: Quattro Stelle

@pavlor

Thanks pavlor...PCI-Express 16x, YES!

Once I've finished the Amiga keys project I *should* be able to pay for the second and last prototype of the X500 Pro, so much of it depends on these Amiga keys project.

But, if anyone is interested, these are the X500 Pro specs:

-Tiny bit smaller/compact than the previous X500 Plus and Evo.

-Support for a DUAL SLOT, FULL SIZE graphics card (up to 17-18cm in length)- unlike the X500 Plus and Evo (low profile, single slot).

-Support for a flex-atx PSU (150W-500W) - unlike the X500 Plus/Evo picoPSU 80W to 160W.

-Support for up to 4 50x50x10mm silent fans (2 per side).

-New, redesigned base (it holds everything so no wires going from the top to the base).

-New, redesigned cover with a surprise...

-Two LEDs moved to the right (as requested).

-Full size mechanical keyboard as standard.

-Optional Amiga keys...you can get them via the Kickstarter page.

So happiness all round.

Last edited by TheDaddy on 11-Oct-2015 at 09:31 AM.

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bennymee 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 9:50:01
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 595
From: Netherlands

@pavlor

Interesting, the P and T series both use the

689 pin 31X31 TePBGA-II (wirebond)

Socket, why would they use a cpu with an incompatible cpu ?

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marko 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 9:53:23
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Dec-2007
Posts: 1805
From: Gothenburg, THE front side of Sweden ;), (via Finland), EU

@K-L

Quote:
Ok, nice but what will it bring that Sam460 has not ?

8 GB RAM vs 2 GB
2 Sata vs 1 Sata
2 cores vs 1 core
...

Last edited by marko on 11-Oct-2015 at 09:56 AM.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FEu1 on Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM
C128, A500+, A1200, A1200/40, AmigaForever 2008+09+16, 5 x86/x64 boxes
Still waiting (or dreaming) for the Amiga revolution...
m4rko.com/AMIGA

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pavlor 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 9:55:01
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9120
From: Unknown

@bennymee

I think when they started developement, T10xx SoCs werent yet available.

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bennymee 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 10:00:21
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 595
From: Netherlands

@pavlor

Maybe, at least 3 years ago.

I took a look at the prices at digikey, indeed T is cheaper, but socket is listed as 780 fbga.

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TRIPOS 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 10:04:26
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1043
From: Unknown

@Zylesea

Quote:

Zylesea wrote:
A new PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon with two cores, 8 GB RAM, miniITX and between 700 - 1000 EUR.


Ah, so this was Christian Zigotzky's "P1022 Custom board"?

https://community.freescale.com/thread/339022
https://community.freescale.com/thread/342970
https://community.freescale.com/thread/357813

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Everblue 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 10:05:38
#34 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Posts: 641
From: Amigaland

I am very interested in this if it will sell around 700 Euro for the complete system. There is no point in buying "another SAM" if it just as slow, but costs the same. Sure it has dual core, but what's the point if Amiga OS only supports 1?

Also, hopefully this thing will support dual booting between Amiga OS and MorphOS.

Last edited by Everblue on 11-Oct-2015 at 10:07 AM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 10:06:39
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1043
From: Unknown

@Zylesea

Quote:

Zylesea wrote:
@Fransexy

Yeah, got it about the P1022 - disappointing!


Yes, really disappointing and very surprising given the fact that this was what killed off the "UltimatePPC accelerator" a few years ago. Didn't anyone learn from the discussions back then?



It would have been much better if it had been "PowerPC" CPU instead of "PowerPCSPE", since the entire OS4/MorphOS Eco System ranging from the old PowerUP to X5000 (including all the PPC Macs) was "PowerPC" and all S/W is compiled for this. With "PowerPC" I of course mean the proper Book-E/PowerISA.

This was the ultimate reason to why the "UltimatePPC" project was scrapped:

"Our original plan to fix these incompatibilities in software turns out to have more impact that we had foreseen. For this reason, we will reconsider the choice of PowerPC CPU"
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=828684

I predict that this board will ended up being scrapped as well, and will never reach any consumers.

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TRIPOS 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 10:07:58
#36 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1043
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Quote:

tonyw wrote:

don't think any code will become unusable. The kernel will simply trap to a different set of functions for that FPU (as it used to do with the 68060).


A quote from Andreas Wolf (3 years ago):

"Emulating standard Book-E/PowerISA FPU on e500v2 might be hard (or impossible even?) as this is not simply about missing instructions here but about instruction overlappings, i.e. same instructions doing different things on different cores. This seems similar to m68k vs. ColdFire. For an exhaustive and detailed comparison of the programming models of e500v2 vs. e600, refer to:

http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/app_note/AN3531.pdf

Btw, even the (ex-)maintainer of Debian for PowerPCSPE calls it a "braindead FPU design":

http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2012/05/msg00025.html "



Didn't Debian as a result of this incompatible CPU start a special effort/fork, a "Debian PowerPCSPE" in parallel to "Debian PowerPC"?

Is the same solution plausible for OS4? I.e. "OS4 PowerPC" for all existing PPC H/W (and all current PPC applications), and "OS4 PowerPCSPE" for this board?

Last edited by TRIPOS on 11-Oct-2015 at 10:14 AM.

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pavlor 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 10:09:07
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9120
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Or maybe it will allow realisation of UltimatePPC. Must take off my rose-tinted-glasses...


Edit: Linux emulates FPU on e500v2 - so it is possible to use plain PowerPC binaries, but that means even slower FPU performance.

Last edited by pavlor on 11-Oct-2015 at 10:10 AM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 10:11:19
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1043
From: Unknown

@imagodespira

Quote:

imagodespira wrote:
@Kronos

So Peg2 compared to Tabor:
- it is 10 years old !
- still expensive as old used system
- no longer available for purchasing (expect used rarely)


So Peg2 compared to Tabor:
- More expandable (AGP slot and 3x PCI, changeable CPU card)
- More powerful (Altivec SIMD and a usable HW FPU)
- Better compatibility (proper Book-E/PowerISA)
- The Peg2 was never really expensive at the time (where prices for computers generally was higher than today even). The price lowered over time and the last price for a complete Pegasos2 motherboard with a real 1GHz 7447 G4 CPU card was $399/350


Quote:
My hope is that it performes a bit better than sam460 and i am happy!


It will probably be more like a move sideways in performance. Neither has Altivec, the not much higher clock will quickly be swallowed by the unusable H/W FPU.

So...

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elwood 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 10:11:19
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3425
From: Lyon, France

@marko

Quote:

@K-L

Quote:
Ok, nice but what will it bring that Sam460 has not ?

8 GB RAM vs 2 GB
2 Sata vs 1 Sata
2 cores vs 1 core

DDR3 vs DDR2
MiniITX vs FlexATX

_________________
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Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
Amiga Translator Organisation

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pavlor 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 11-Oct-2015 10:15:43
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9120
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
More expandable (AGP slot and 3x PCI, changeable CPU card)


AGP slot that cant use Radeon HD cards...

Quote:
It will probably be more like a move sideways in performance. Neither has Altivec, the not much higher clock will quickly be swallowed by the unusable H/W FPU.


As I wrote, WinUAE/OS4 is in the same situation (no FPU) and this really is not unbearable hurdle. Sure lame is slooooow and Quake (software rendering) runs only in low resolution, but all other main tasks are more than fluid (internet browsing, emulation etc.). So no reason to exaggerate.

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