@kolla

I'm gonna give you my attempt at 2015s best out-of-context quote here now:
Quote:

AmigaOS had a long list of features

God jul

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Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

God jul til deg også

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@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote: Hardware dependence is different than scalability. AmigaOS 68k can be cut down to operate with less than half a megabyte of memory or can be scaled up to a fairly modern and powerful GUI environment. Most dynamic multitasking operating systems do not scale down as far as the AmigaOS.

That's normal: the Amiga o.s. lacks any kind of modern feature, and this requires execution time and more code.
Quote:

The 68k AmigaOS could probably be 15%-30% smaller with better optimization and maybe 5%-15% smaller with the ISA changes I wanted to make so yes, it could have been smaller.

But the main problem here is that the Amiga o.s. uses a lot of assembly code. So it's already pretty efficient.

However this makes it very difficult to upgrade and maintain.

Rewriting it mostly in C would work well, however this will generate much fatter binaries. AROS/68K is a clear example: it requires 1MB (albeit there's some space left empty) offering more or less the same features, whereas the Amiga o.s. 3.1 occupy half...
Quote:

New features can be added where the AmigaOS is lacking to scale it up. Minimal changes have been necessary to allow the AmigaOS to be a fairly modern OS and it has been able to keep good compatibility so far. We will see if that holds when adding SMP and 64 bit addressing support.

64-bit means dropping compatibility, whereas SMP is hard to accomplish, but an FPGA can help (monitoring the infamous o.s. counters for tasks and interrupts).

But there are still missing resource tracking, memory protection, and multiuser.

I think that a modern o.s. should allow all 5 features.

BTW, isn't it better to open a thread and talk about 68K et similia?

@matthey

Quote:

We will see if that holds when adding SMP and 64 bit addressing support.

You need to run a 32bit and 64bit kernel side by side, to do that, you need some virtualization, to make seamless, It be a lot of work, can be done.

Just think of as running shapeshifter on AmigaOS, but imagen you do not need to a different screen or different device drivers and things like that.

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@NutsAboutAmiga: that's what AROS already does with Amibridge/Janus.

@cdimauro

So you finally admit it can be done

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@NutsAboutAmiga: that's totally different from running 64-bit and 32-bit applications together, like "first citizens".

@cdimauro

If you did not know the difference, then will you care?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Dec-2015 at 07:55 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga: try to compare the Petunia user experience with RunInUAE on your OS4, and make your conclusions.

@cdimauro

Quote:

try to compare the Petunia user experience with RunInUAE on your OS4, and make your conclusions.

Both serve (really well) different purpose.

You may create clever emulation where user will not know what is and what is not native application without direct integration like in case of Trance/Petunia. Eg. emulated enviroment would display its windows on native screen and both native and emulated enviroment could share default UI look. Some resources could be even shared between both enviroments without too much work (eg. clipboard).

@pavlor: yes, but moving to a 64-bit platform you lose the strict integration, and have only the emulation.

Can an OS4 user live without Petunia?

@cdimauro

Quote:

Can an OS4 user live without Petunia?

Petunia should work in visualized 32bit box just as well.
Petunia is just a translator nothing more.

In my option, we are not seeing the full potential of Petunia right now; many 680x0 programs can be fixed to work without Paula & CIAA/CIAB timers, and AGA graphics, if the assembler was available, for fixing.

On the other hand, who wont's to use programs that cannot display 800x600 resolutions in true colors?

I write my own programs it's not problem for me.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Dec-2015 at 08:25 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Dec-2015 at 08:24 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Dec-2015 at 08:18 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Dec-2015 at 08:16 PM.

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@cdimauro

As NutsAboutAmiga wrote, Petunia would work in emulated enviroment in all but look separated from native enviroment (if I stick by my terminology ).

Last edited by pavlor on 21-Dec-2015 at 08:19 PM.

@NutsAboutAmiga & pavlor: of course, it continues to work running inside UAE.

But the point was another: on 64-bit platform, you cannot have the same integration of 32-bit/legacy applications, like the one that Petunia currently offers for the 68K ones to the PowerPC.

In short: is it OK to use OS4/64-bit using only a tool like with RunInUAE, for the old platform?

@cdimauro

Quote:

In short: is it OK to use OS4/64-bit using only a tool like with RunInUAE, for the old platform?

It should be a little bit better integrated than current RunInUAE which is best suited for game emulation. But yes, such scenario is imaginable.

@cdimauro

I don't see the problem with having shared memory inside 31bit space, between 64bit kenerel and 32bit kernel, and even things like messages can be repacked and requed with out program knowing, how do you think rawkeys are injected into UAE?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Dec-2015 at 08:28 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga: then show how to do it, and you'll make OS4, MorphOS, and even AROS users happy to better integrate the legacy 32-bit apps on a 64-bit version of the o.s..

P.S. No, it's not that simple like your example.

Last edited by cdimauro on 21-Dec-2015 at 08:32 PM.

@cdimauro

Do you remember OS4EMU for MorphOS?

This can be done provide there was 64bit version of AmigaOS4.1, to run it on.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Dec-2015 at 08:41 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Dec-2015 at 08:39 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga: I never know before, but I took a look at it.

It works with MorphOS and OS4, only because they are 32-bit and share exactly the same common data structures from the original Amiga o.s.. For the differences, simple adapters can be easily made.

But you cannot do the same work for a 64-bit o.s.. Absolutely.

You're free to take one of the examples which I made on this thread, and show me concretely how to do it.

@cdimauro

Who says I have time for that?

I have wonted to virtualize 32bit PowerPC, and move virtual program pointer to my base address, it can be fun to run AmigaOS4 on AmigaOS4 / EUAE.

But there is not that many hours in a day, and most hours I have free, I seem to west argue with you. You have at least stolen 3 or 4 hours from me today

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Dec-2015 at 08:53 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Dec-2015 at 08:52 PM.

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