Quote:

kolla wrote: I doupt very much that it is doable to make a cheap stand-alone with Apollo Core, unless you move out of FPGA and onto ASIC, but that requires quite an economic effort and guaranteed sales. I seriously doubt that there is a large enough market for such a product.

How large volume is needed to make it viable?

@hth313

Well, estimates on an ASIC start at 500K and go up from there (to over 1Million). Let's be optimistic and say 500K. And a per unit cost after that of $20.

Current thumb-suck cost of FPGA of $80 in some sort of volume. Single-unit price is $88 from Mouser (5CEBA5F23C8N).

Cost savings per unit = $60. 500,000 / 60 = 8333 units to break even.

@BigD

Are you sure Pagestream is available?

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@DiscreetFX

Deron Kazmaier now lives in north western South Dakota and take an age to respond to his emails but PageStream is still technically for sale!

Buy PageStream

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

PageStream is scam. Don't buy it, you'll never get a plausibly working version. I've burnt my fingers twice with it: the OS4 version (which is in alpha state at best), and the Windows version (which is a lot better but still quite unstable). No version of PageStream has been updated in eight years, which speaks volumes.

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@Trixie

Quote:

the OS4 version (which is in alpha state at best),

There are stable versions of Version 4 which you'll have acess to if you buy the latest version. Version 3.2 is good enough for me but 4 has some enhancements but 5 is buggy. The last version of Photogenics was a bit buggy too sadly.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

I am (still) using PageStream on a professional level, 68k Version 4.0r1 10/21/99 works really stable on my OS4.1 FE / X1000.
Normally Derons E-Mail responstime is 3-5 workdays.

This for example was done with PagesStream:

http://www.geobiz.de/images/uploads/data/geobiz-leporello-2013.pdf

_________________
Geomarketing at
www.geobiz.de
www.gebietsplanung.net
www.geomarketing-consultant.de

@gerograph

Thinking about it he said my email must have got lost in his inbox and he did apologise when he eventually found it. I'dalready bought 3.1/3.2 off eBay so he lost a sale off me.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Trixie

Quote:

Trixie wrote: @BigD PageStream is scam. Don't buy it, you'll never get a plausibly working version. I've burnt my fingers twice with it: the OS4 version (which is in alpha state at best), and the Windows version (which is a lot better but still quite unstable). No version of PageStream has been updated in eight years, which speaks volumes.

From his website:
http://www.faroutliving.com/

Quote:

"No one on their death bed every said 'I wish I had worked more'!" - Deron Kazmaier

I guess he doesn't regret giving up working on PageStream

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

There are stable versions of Version 4 which you'll have acess to if you buy the latest version.

Yes I know, but the thing is - I bought PgS version 5, not version 4. The fact that you get access to a 20-year-old version does not make it less scam.

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@Trixie

Quote:

Yes I know, but the thing is - I bought PgS version 5, not version 4.

They've stopped updating 5 so it will stay buggy, hence use Version 4! No scam just common sense IMHO.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@ne_one

Quote:

We've hit the point where preserving the legacy is a given. It's time to start forward moving forward.

I agree, but there's no consensus on how to "move forward."

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@gerograph

You did a nce job on that, it looks professionally done.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@bison

Quote:

there's no consensus on how to "move forward."

I would say that the consensus is quite obvious, as most developers and users have simply moved to other platforms and left amiga behind.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @bison Quote: there's no consensus on how to "move forward." I would say that the consensus is quite obvious, as most developers and users have simply moved to other platforms and left amiga behind.

May I suggest that you might prefer to follow those developers to threads of said 'other' platforms. You may be able to muster a more positive outlook on the 'forward' direction of a 'mainstream' platform rather than AmigaOS. I'm really struggling to see what you are bringing to THIS discussion other than generally just give up?!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Your right.
Thumb Up.

@ribdevil
@BigD

Where is the "Like" button when we need it?!

Cheers!

_________________
Tygre
Scientific Progress Goes Boing!

@kolla

Quote:

I doupt very much that it is doable to make a cheap stand-alone with Apollo Core, unless you move out of FPGA and onto ASIC, but that requires quite an economic effort and guaranteed sales. I seriously doubt that there is a large enough market for such a product.

Relative to a market where books and cases manage to get crowdfunded for $100k at a time?

The technology and the money are minor challenges.

@bison

Quote:

I agree, but there's no consensus on how to "move forward."

Which isn't actually the problem but rather the cause of it.

Since Commodore exited the market there hasn't been a single guiding authority. Successful commercial initiatives take into consideration community feedback but don't use it as the basis of a business plan.

@BigD

Quote:

I'm really struggling to see what you are bringing to THIS discussion other than generally just give up?!

+1

I don't think the Amiga community has ever had a shortage of cynicism.