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paolone 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 27-Apr-2017 22:23:34
#61 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 984
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:

And, btw, there are no 15 watt i7 cpus, if there were, you wouldn't need anything but passive cooling.


No?

https://ark.intel.com/it/products/97540/Intel-Core-i7-7560U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz

that's one. But in the range between 12 an 20W you can find several alternatives

https://ark.intel.com/it/Search/FeatureFilter?productType=processors&MaxTDPMin=12&MaxTDPMax=20

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 28-Apr-2017 7:00:41
#62 ]
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Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3401
From: Unknown

@iggy

Btw, although A-eon or Acube are not directly involved (or partially involved as Acube), i wish they were cause i trust both Acube and A-eon. They're doing their best

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iggy 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 28-Apr-2017 13:33:00
#63 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:
i trust both Acube and A-eon


Yes, so do I. And it was quite a surprise to find out that Acube had agreed to work on the schematics (the price quoted is quite reasonable).
And I have been in contact with Aeon's designers at Varisys since before I was aware that they were working together.

Great firm.

@paolone

Quote:
No?


Apparently there are now.
My apologies, I was waiting for someone to quote a figure that relied on underclocking (while using an i7 laptop, that has a cpu that draws MORE than 15 watts), BUT they HAVE introduced some recently.

In any case, I'M already using an NG OS with a roadmap for a future move to X64.
Its you guys relying on Hyperion that have to worry about this issue.

That, AND, while I quite like the X5000, you DO all realize now that it performs worse than a G5 PowerMac, right?
Because we were displaying full screen HD video on G5s before the X5000 was introduced, without gpu assisted decoding.
However, we should have better solutions for this than brute force cpu decoding. We could use the gpu, a second (or third or fourth) cpu in an ASMP configuration, or a dedicated decoding IC/board.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 5-Nov-2017 20:17:10
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3401
From: Unknown

@iggy

https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2017/11/powerpc-notebook-block-diagram-done/

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Beans 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 5-Nov-2017 20:56:55
#65 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@AmigaBlitter

Yes, there has been a fair amount of work completed.
Only one or two component decisions to be made, the basic design features are now mapped out.
But a little over 5000 euros still needs to be raised to finish paying Acube for the initial schematics.

As over 7000 has already been raised, I'm personally hopefully that Stage 1 will be reached.

And then its on to stage two.
Consider the current features planned, T2080 cpu, MXM graphics, SATA3 with an eSATA port, and USB3.

I can't discuss the actual details, but its shaping up to be really cool.
And many of the team members are interested in maintaining Linux ports for this system.

With support for Radeon HD gpus via MXM graphics expansion, it could be possible to port NG OS' to this platform.

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fishy_fis 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 6-Nov-2017 10:08:03
#66 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1824
From: Australia

@iggy

I missed this 1st time around, but found it so stupid I just had to respond......

Quote:
@fishy_fis

Sure...try starting an i7 or Ryzen system without a cooler and find how far THAT idea gets you.
Personally, I value my investment too much to be that DUMB.

You make SO many statements based on opinions or faith, occasionally you ought to let reality settle in.

And, btw, there are no 15 watt i7 cpus, if there were, you wouldn't need anything but passive cooling.


Firstly, that's some might creative interpretation of what was said.
NO-ONE said it was a good idea to run an i7 without a cooler. NO-ONE said they were going to do it. Personally Im baffled that an interpretation could be that DUMB.
ALL that was said, was me correcting you with your false claim cpus will just die without proper cooling, with an implication that this was a shortcoming of x86.
It's blatantly obvious that *any cpu* designed for mainstream usage isnt going to cope well beyond it's suggested heat threshhold. Despite this your implication was just plain wrong. Modern cpus (anything made in last 10-15 years) have internal diodes. If cpus go beyond the bios/firmware specified heat the system will shut down, preventing damage. It's why it's there.

So, there you go, in that regard your wrong, regardless of how much you try to twist what was said.

And btw, there's been 15w and sub 15w i7's since Sandy Bridge. Theyve existed for YEARS.
Perhaps do some research before making such black and white claims?
Even without having researched figures it's pretty obvious. Some Apple super thin i7 laptops use just heatsinks, lots of Windows and Android tablets, etc. are obviously passively cooled and so on.

Now, given that everything I've said is accurate, and you basically exercise creative writing perhaps it's *YOU* who ought to take a walk in reality from time to time?

Or alternatively show me *A SINGLE* case where I've corrected someone with inaccurate information (to qualify your statements about me).

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olegil 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 6-Nov-2017 11:21:48
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5887
From: Work

@paolone

While technically an i7, the 7560U might not be the best example, as it has a lower passmark rating than even the i5-7360U, which is clocked 100MHz slower. Not sure why, though. Alltough the i5 has a very low sample space, only 6 machines benchmarked. The i7 was more, and I can't really see how the i5 would score extra high if someone ran it with a weird config.

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paolone 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 6-Nov-2017 15:36:59
#68 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 984
From: Unknown

Quote:

olegil wrote:
@paolone

While technically an i7, the 7560U might not be the best example, as it has a lower passmark rating than even the i5-7360U, which is clocked 100MHz slower. Not sure why, though. Alltough the i5 has a very low sample space, only 6 machines benchmarked. The i7 was more, and I can't really see how the i5 would score extra high if someone ran it with a weird config.


I must admit I haven't really understood your message but, if I have correctly interpreted it, then the answer can be simple. The main difference between i7s and i5s is the SMT technology enabled on the former and disabled on the latter: they are exact same processors, only the HyperThreading feature is different. There are benchmarks which heavily rely on IPC results (or better call them single-thread performances), rather than on multi-processing grunt, so a 4-core i5 can score better than a 4-core+HyperThreading i7, if the i5 has a higher clock frequency than the i7.

But... hey... what are we talking about? World has moved on. Now it's time for Ryzens!

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Rob 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 6-Nov-2017 20:44:54
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5708
From: S.Wales

@Beans

Quote:
With support for Radeon HD gpus via MXM graphics expansion, it could be possible to port NG OS' to this platform


I assume that Freescale used the same peripheral controllers on the P and T series so SATA and USB are covered and NIC should by the time this board will be production ready so it should be fairly trivial for Hyperion to support it compared to other releases.

Hans' chunky Tabor laptop may lead to the implementation of power saving features by the same time too.

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asymetrix 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 12:23:29
#70 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 805
From: United Kingdom

@AmigaBlitter

lets hope this laptop can also be used as a low power (watts) games console, under Android.

Why Android ?

http://www.jetbrains.com/research/devecosystem-2017/

Most developers are working in the Android ecosystem, its these developers that can push software ports in a big way.

For example, getting the popular & powerful Android IDE cross compiling for Amiga would be a bonus.

https://developer.android.com/studio/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAbQgLGKd3Y
Android development video, 2 Million views.

This 'popular' ecosystem is where the hardware could also be sold & gain momentum & awareness.

Separate developers for separate builds, make the profit by software to fund the next round.

Amiga Incs Amiga DE (Elate) is in fact the vision that is Android today.

Portable software that just works.


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Hypex 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 8-Nov-2017 14:36:30
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9243
From: Greensborough, Australia

@asymetrix

Quote:
Amiga Incs Amiga DE (Elate) is in fact the vision that is Android today


I actualy wonder if AmigaOS would have been a good base for what become Android. The reason I say this is because the average Android device, like a phone, is a single user system. I'm not experienced with tablets but generally a phone doesn't allow for another user to log in. It's designed to be personalised for one being. Perfect for AmigaOS which is a single user system and hasn't progressed beyond. Perhaps the one feature it has left that actually is useful in todays world, of all things.

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BigD 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 8-Nov-2017 15:10:39
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4442
From: UK

@Hypex

Making a Mac into a single user system is a nightmare. I attempted to migrate files from both a Snow Leopard and El Capitan partition on an external hard drive and attempted to give access to all the files via a 'shared' user folder on El Capitan and then created an additional Mountain Lion partition which I also wanted to give read and write access to. I've pretty much managed it but the 'security' features don't allow Mountain Lion to create a folder on the shared folder on the El Capitan partition from within an application even though it can save a single file to the shared folder itself. The solution is to use Finder and enter the password to create a folder then go back into the Application and THEN save it! Rubbish!

It's like they can't envisage you wanting other members of your family to have access to your files or needing to use a different version of MacOS with your files on a different partition with no barriers! Yet they care very little for backwards compatibility beyond Apps written for the previous version of MacOS which forces people like me to use multiple version of MacOS! The switch to 64-bit apps only in the next MacOS will be a big reason to avoid the platform all together IMHO.

Last edited by BigD on 08-Nov-2017 at 03:12 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 08-Nov-2017 at 03:12 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 08-Nov-2017 at 03:11 PM.

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billt 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 8-Nov-2017 18:16:24
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3073
From: Maryland, USA

@Hypex

Quote:
I actualy wonder if AmigaOS would have been a good base for what become Android. The reason I say this is because the average Android device, like a phone, is a single user system. I'm not experienced with tablets but generally a phone doesn't allow for another user to log in. It's designed to be personalised for one being. Perfect for AmigaOS which is a single user system and hasn't progressed beyond. Perhaps the one feature it has left that actually is useful in todays world, of all things.


Well, security would be more of an issue than it already is with Linux-Android. AmigaOS really doesn't have a concept of security... I would also want other robust features like resource tracking for more stability.

I do actually have several accounts on my phone. I have a "game" and "app" account, which does not give real email data to nosy things, as my email account is a different one. It also allows me to play multiplayer games with my kid on the family ipad, which would otherwise also use my same username. Some games require different usernames for multiplayer over network.

There are reasons to avoid a single-user phone concept.

As you said, Android is very much like AmigaDE - Linux with basically everything running in a Java VM, which is basically what DE/Tao Intent was. Really too bad they found a way to screw that up...

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 8-Nov-2017 21:53:38
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10881
From: Norway

@billt

I don't think security is issue, when security problem is hidden under Java, but on the other hand access to driver, power management and modern network stack support for WIFI, GPRS and all other mobile standards. As well as good USB stack, this thins are not so good in AmigaOS compared to Linux, and yes I think choosing less stable OS, is bad choice. When trying to diagnose and billions of mobile users.

On the other hand, AmigaDE was not running on AmigaOS, it was running on Linux. I guess it might have been what Android is, but AmigaDE focused on games, not the user interface experience.

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Leo 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 9-Nov-2017 7:38:04
#75 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1585
From: Unknown

Quote:

I actualy wonder if AmigaOS would have been a good base for what become Android.


If the OS doesn't allow different user sessions it doesn't mean it's not multi-user as in different different privileges, different user level.

All the "single user" mobile OS you talk about (Android, iOS,...) are actuality multi-user and make use or it although they may not allow multi user "sessions". Lots of OS processes run as a different user with different privileges. This makes sure current user doesn't have full write access and cannot screw up everything.

AmigaOS cannot do that. The fact it's only single user is another drawback, not an avantage in this case. And I don't see any reason why it would have been a better base than Linux as a base for Android.

Android is also heavily based on Java, which didn't run on AmigaOS (and still doesn't).

I'm not even talking about the fact that Linux is portable (Android runs on x86, ARM, MIPS), supports SMP (most Android machines have several core), 64bit (most ARM cpus are 64bit and most phones now come with 3-4Gb RAM) etc...

You can defintely stop wondering.

Last edited by Leo on 09-Nov-2017 at 10:30 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 09-Nov-2017 at 10:27 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 09-Nov-2017 at 10:26 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 09-Nov-2017 at 10:25 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 09-Nov-2017 at 10:24 AM.

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asymetrix 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 9-Nov-2017 8:33:33
#76 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 805
From: United Kingdom

@Hypex

Yes an no, problem with Amiga is slow development software and a rigid old GUI.

Everytime we want a new system we redesign to fixed device, it slows development time.

Microsoft (windows 10 HTML GUI ) , mobiles, tablets have moved onto javascript/html/css based interface.

They have a C/C++ core that binds with javascript to create the GUI/UI, even software is being built like the advanced designer software Sketch app.

Alot of ladies love Sketch app - because it looks pretty and makes designing things faster.

They like the User Interface look - fresh and new, the UI look they are aiming for is the bold flat look that is being designed in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiCXg17CwIY&t=689s

Hard to believe its being run by a Javascript engine + css + html widgets, for fast light, dynamic settings.

Its like a browser UI and its plugins for all the OS and its software.

I think Elate did not 'die', the company was sold - its technology was surely absorbed. (maybe to stop us).

Last edited by asymetrix on 09-Nov-2017 at 08:36 AM.

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gonegahgah 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 9-Nov-2017 10:09:07
#77 ]
Member
Joined: 5-Dec-2008
Posts: 93
From: Australia

@asymetrix

This probably gives the best insight into what happened to Elate:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9806607

Basically Elate is sitting in some lawyer's basement!!!

The thing I like most about it is the VP language with its macros.

I believe Amiga must have passed along my adaptclass function.
A very similar looking dynamicclass appeared in the Taos 1.5 release.

Chris Hinsley, former chief programmer, is still doing his own things over at:
https://github.com/vygr?tab=repositories

He's creating a variant of VP it would appear called ChrysaLisp:
https://github.com/vygr/ChrysaLisp

Seems to have changed a bit since I last took a look...
I prefer the old VP language. I would like to improve upon it...

By the way I believe Taos restarted up as Antix Labs.
A reference link is: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/antix-labs
I'm not sure if their web pages are archived somewhere?

It appears that Antix Labs went largely unnoticed by the Amiga community...

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 21-Mar-2018 10:43:19
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3401
From: Unknown

@thread

many progress....

https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2018/03/electrical-schematics-and-donations-progress-winter-activities/


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klx300r 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 21-Mar-2018 19:08:41
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3368
From: Toronto, Canada

Quote:

iggy wrote:
@klx300r

Ah! Good f'ing K...rist. Its NOT an Aeon project, NOR is it an Acube project.

Its being explored by a group of us that have contacted Acube to contract for their assistance.
Acube has offered to create the schematics necessary for a T2080/e6500 cored laptop motherboard, buy we have to PAY for those (the price IS very reasonable though).

Funding for this part of the project was supposed to commence about April 30th, but has been postponed until mid-May.

SO, you should see some announcements about it very soon.

In the meanwhile, could you please give credit where credit is due?
We definitely don't want this mistaken for any of the failed projects in the past.



ah just noticed now you tagged me so sorry for the late reply, I donated as soon as I heard ACube was involved

PPC notebook= Power to the People

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OneTimer1 
Re: super interesting (PPC-Notebook - Acube Collaboration)
Posted on 21-Mar-2018 20:53:35
#80 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 360
From: Unknown

@gonegahgah

Quote:

This probably gives the best insight into what happened to Elate:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9806607


This was really interesting, it looked like TAO saw Amiga as a last straw for their product, it all sound very interesting but it was not Amiga to us. And there was no hardware in the pipeline making it look like an Amiga.

Quote:

I think they were trying to exploit the Amiga brand to leverage synergies, or something.


And the idea of promising an TAO Elate / AmigaDE on AmigaOS 4.x as the next generation Amiga did not catch either.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 21-Mar-2018 at 08:55 PM.

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