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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Is AmigaOS still in active development?
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bison 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 22:06:31
#41 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1172
From: N-Space

@Micam

Quote:
Now making, let's say "AmigaOS 5.x" a clean x86 OS that can run on all available hardware would make a difference.


Many have dreamed of this -- myself included -- but the task is nearly impossible.

You could create another Amiga-like OS with limited functionality, but it would have limited software support and not many people would use it. The canary is Haiku; they are further along than AROS, and it will be intersting to see how they do.

If you want a modern replacement, the only practical stategy is to start with Linux or BSD and build on (and take away from) that.

You can't start with Windows of Mac OS, since they are closed systems, and the best you can do is tweak a few things here and there.

It took Linux 27 years and thousands of developers to get where it is today. The situation with BSD is smiliar, if on a smaller scale. That's in insurmountable head start -- no one can catch up starting from scratch, however badly they may want to.

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eliyahu 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 22:21:31
#42 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1760
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Micam

it's not all dead, it's only mostly dead. there's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. mostly dead is slightly alive.

-- eliyahu

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kolla 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 4:14:09
#43 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1051
From: Trondheim, Norway

@bison

Quote:

If you want a modern replacement, the only practical stategy is to start with Linux or BSD and build on (and take away from) that.

You can't start with Windows of Mac OS, since they are closed systems.


You are aware that macOS _IS_ a BSD, and certified UNIX system? :)

That is kind of the whole point of the BSD license - you can do what Apple does, take BSD code and pretty much do whatever you want with it. You cannot do that with GPL code, like Linux.

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ilbarbax 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 7:42:00
#44 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2010
Posts: 158
From: Italy

@bison

Quote
The canary is Haiku; they are further along than AROS, and it will be interesting to see how they do.
Quote

I wander how Haiku development can be ahead Aros one. Original BEOS user base was negligible compared with the Amiga userbase. Where did they got the resources?

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wawa 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 8:11:04
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6098
From: Unknown

@ilbarbax

aros userbase is a fraction of amiga user base. would there be more engagement for aros among amiga userbase the situation would probably be different.

besides im not that infomed, in what areas is haiku ahead, or how is this judged?

Last edited by wawa on 09-Jul-2018 at 08:18 AM.

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SHADES 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 12:50:34
#46 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 631
From: Melbourne

@ilbarbax

I love that you mentioned Haiku, although if the canary in the room is Haiku, then the Elephant in the room would be ReactOS (A windows Clone) I mean, why would you want a Windows clone right? Just use Windows.
M$ isn't short of money and the OS is as up to date as you can mention, yet, it has huge development, a large user-base in comparison to Amiga, and is completely Open Source, just like Haiku.

I agree Haiku sees more development than AOS or AROS, all you need to do is look at the nightly build commits on their page to see that however, they still haven't got the smp stuff working.

Last edited by SHADES on 09-Jul-2018 at 12:51 PM.

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SHADES 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 13:07:16
#47 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 631
From: Melbourne

@Micam

Personally speaking, i'd go ARM native. (already ARM emulators like ARMIGA, that work just fine)
It's cheap, it's affordable, it's not x86 (If that's still a sticking point)
It has a very active development.
It has the ability for design your own IP
It's not strangled Intel/IBM IP based.
It's RISC multi CPU and power friendly.

I just bought a Renegade from Libre computing. Its an ARM quad core with 4 GB DDR4, USB3, 4k Decode built in with h264/5 assisted instruction. It fits in a Raspberry Pi case with breakout headers. It has gigabit Ethernet, all onboard. It was $60 Australian.

It has more power than an 060 AMIGA, faster USB, BUS design. There is no reason why you can't embed a FPGA as either an add-on to the BUS or, just design a motherboard with PCIe connection. There are plenty of PCI->USB3 devices already.

It keeps you out of x86 land, is constantly being developed and is very cheap to buy.

Powerful graphics are no issue. 4k HEVC at 60 fps. Can any AMIGA do that currently?

The sound is all 16 bit.

Anyway, it's easy to invest in, runs off the USB port power and can be serious fun in developing for. Want a Zena? chuck it in.

The design costs to bring a dev board into the market are far less than a x86 and ARM is not dying any time soon.

Otherwise, x86 is the only real choice for cheaper, well-developed hw platforms IMO.

Last edited by SHADES on 09-Jul-2018 at 01:20 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 09-Jul-2018 at 01:09 PM.

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bison 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 13:26:48
#48 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1172
From: N-Space

@kolla

Quote:
You are aware that macOS _IS_ a BSD, and certified UNIX system? :)

Yes, but... Darwin never went anywhere to speak of. It's a footnote.

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bison 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 13:31:46
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1172
From: N-Space

@ilbarbax

Quote:
Original BEOS user base was negligible compared with the Amiga userbase. Where did they got the resources?

That's a good question. I haven't followed them close enough to know the answer.

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remotenemesis 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 14:36:26
#50 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2018
Posts: 83
From: SF Bay Area, California

I imagine a Kickstarter backed by a singular vision of the future and with the right licenses would raise substantial funds. It sounds so easy when I write it like that.

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Micam 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 18:17:26
#51 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Aug-2004
Posts: 91
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@ASiegel

This is a very good question

I do not have all the answers, but to start with a must is an internet browser capable of loading and showing all websites.

It's not easy to do, but be the first OS that always works (no problem with driver issues etc.).

If the OS is focused on gaming, then focus on game development (making partnership with gaming software houses), and having a focus on high gfx and audio performance (also in VR) at a low cost.

Full compatible OS that works on desktop, in the cloud and on tablets/smartphones. AmigaOS as a native smartphone OS.

This is just a few and I know that they are very hard to realise, but you asked

Quote:

ASiegel wrote:
@Micam

Quote:
When I am talking about AmigaOS, I am not talking about the old OS that lacks in more than one way.

Do you have any coherent thoughts on what it is you want exactly and how it must be different from existing choices to attract your interest?

You keep bringing up Ubuntu. If someone slapped a Spanish name and a bunch of boing balls on it, would that qualify as the solution you are seeking? If not, what would be lacking exactly?

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Micam 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 18:21:12
#52 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Aug-2004
Posts: 91
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@bison

I know it's going to be very hard, but some of the lack of programs might be solved by making AmigaOS capable of running Windows and Linux software natively (like you can run Wine in Linux, but better).

Quote:

bison wrote:
@Micam

Quote:
Now making, let's say "AmigaOS 5.x" a clean x86 OS that can run on all available hardware would make a difference.


Many have dreamed of this -- myself included -- but the task is nearly impossible.

You could create another Amiga-like OS with limited functionality, but it would have limited software support and not many people would use it. The canary is Haiku; they are further along than AROS, and it will be intersting to see how they do.

If you want a modern replacement, the only practical stategy is to start with Linux or BSD and build on (and take away from) that.

You can't start with Windows of Mac OS, since they are closed systems, and the best you can do is tweak a few things here and there.

It took Linux 27 years and thousands of developers to get where it is today. The situation with BSD is smiliar, if on a smaller scale. That's in insurmountable head start -- no one can catch up starting from scratch, however badly they may want to.

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Micam 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 18:33:11
#53 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Aug-2004
Posts: 91
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@SHADES

You have some good arguments, but I would still say that x86 is a safer choice. It's cheep and AMD to some extent, keeps Intel pushing the limits and price point. Other CPU's have some great features, but creating a new AmigaOS is a waste if the marked is limited in CPU speed and price. There is a big demand for x86, and that's why it makes sense to base an OS on that CPU, also we can use cheap x86 laptops (and expensive ones if you like).

I see very little downside to stop PowerPC development and make the source code open source and available. Then AmigaOS can go on as x86 with a potentially bigger user group (since the hardware is and has been available for many years).

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Micam 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 18:35:34
#54 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Aug-2004
Posts: 91
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

I guess I sidestepped myself here

Do anyone of you know for a fact if AmigaOS is still in development by Hyperion?

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Rob 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 19:04:48
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5728
From: S.Wales

@Micam

Quote:
Do anyone of you know for a fact if AmigaOS is still in development by Hyperion?


I should think that developers still actively work on the OS just we don't hear about it.

My understanding is that updates on the beta server are almost daily. I think Hyperion should set up a twitter account which relays the files and version numbers as and when they are available to beta testers. Most of the time it's probably not going be particularly interesting but at least the rest of us will be able to see that work continues on the OS.

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Chris_Y 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 19:57:10
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3123
From: Beds, UK

@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote:

Personally speaking, i'd go ARM native.


I'd agree with that. Even Microsoft is heading towards ARM (it is possible, although unsupported, to run full Windows 10 on a Raspberry Pi. At some point it is likely that an ARM-based Surface will *ahem* surface, athough I daresay x64 will be the choice for a power desktop system for some time yet). Even Apple were considering another CPU switch, this time to ARM. If AmigaOS should be ported anywhere it is to ARM.

But quite frankly the platform doesn't have the resources to do it, so it won't happen.

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wawa 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 20:22:10
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6098
From: Unknown

@Chris_Y

Quote:
ARM-based Surface


there was am based surface from ms. surface 1 namely. useless. i still have surface 1pro with intel i5 that has proven greatly useful and is still in sevice.

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amigang 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 20:46:52
#58 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1407
From: Cheshire, England

I really hope Os4 is not dead, its a great update to the classic Amiga and I felt it was very close to what a Next Gen Amiga should be like, I still feel it needs a bit of polish but its not a bad effort at all considering the lack of resource and developers when you compare it too the huge resource mac/windows and linux must have.

I kinda think the best option now would be do something similar to Amos and have Os4 host on linux so it could access its apps and make them feel native, dont get me wrong i would love full ports or more native software title for Os4 and I have run on its own, but I just feel the Amiga community lack the resource to get all the ports done and keep up (like the browser/internet apps have proved even after big kickstarters and port of Firefox and Odyssey a few years later were starting to fall behind again).

i said it before, but I will say it again just encase Hyperion or Cloanto read this I just hope not too much time and money is wasted on who owns what and the can work together to make the AmigaOS and Amiga scene better, not worst.

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number6 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 9-Jul-2018 20:59:42
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10401
From: In the village

@Micam

Quote:
Do anyone of you know for a fact if AmigaOS is still in development by Hyperion?


ask these folks

#6

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SHADES 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 10-Jul-2018 0:20:15
#60 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 631
From: Melbourne

@wawa

That was a long time ago. Things have moved a lot since then and the ARM sector is leaping in bounds.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12025/qualcomm-launches-48core-centriq-for-1995-arm-servers-for-cloud-native-applications
^^ Still less than x86 computers and it's high end server type products.

As for devlopers like, Trevor, making ARM based products requires far less resources and can still be custom H/W addons like Zena, plus, it's different! it's not x86 and locked down by Intel etc.

Here's the $60 board I just got.
http://en.t-firefly.com/doc/download/index/id/34.html

Just saying, you could make a motherboard with all the expansion and a plugin module and woosh, off you go.

Anyway, it's only a thought. Personally, watch the ARM space, its creating a lot of waves and has been for quite some time that even Intel are getting interested.

Last edited by SHADES on 10-Jul-2018 at 12:22 AM.

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