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PosterThread
kas1e 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 15-Aug-2018 15:36:05
#141 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3527
From: Russia

@nubechecorre,spectre, elehau

Regal is dead end and not worth of worry. Just Hans advice it before in hope its good enough, but is not. Reassons are:

1. No more in develop since long time. No bug fixing (while reported a lot). And safe to assume there will be no developing or bug fixing as it already in limbo for good few years.

2. Not feature full even as opengl 2x, taking aside 3x and of course 4x.

3. It is slow. I know it as i made it works for os4 (there was dedicated thread on amigans).

4. It is also use constructs like x[x] for shaders which Hans added only recently, and that to be tested.

All of this mean for us 100% non-go. As we always want everything be bug free and fast enough. More of it we have no developers resources for this, so if none from other world works on it, then none will.

Through, there another opengl-ogles2 wrapper: gl4es. That one good enough for us, almost bug free now, and developed independed of us, lazy and busy amigans :) Author always fix bugs i report, doing always everything fast, help to find and to fix bunch of issues in our ogles2 and warp3dnova library.

And that one not dropped, i wait just when ogles2.library with some fix daniel do lately will be released, togethet with latest warp3dnova, so i can release some games already, as well az SDK for os4.

And also, amigadeveloper's bugreport page die too, so i cant report bugs anymore , instead i need to write directly to Hans and to Daniel in hope it will be not forgotten.

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Lou 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 15-Aug-2018 17:31:39
#142 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4137
From: Rhode Island

I think I will announce a new card for OS[Whatever]
Surely everyone will buy it and wait for drivers to appear out of no where.




FYI, the reason you can plug in ANY graphics card into a PC and have it work is because ALL graphics cards support VESA modes. Hypothetically, any Amiga could use any AMD/NVIDIA card if a VESA driver for Amiga existed. The drivers typically expose the extra functionality of the cards...but PCs will still boot into a VESA mode without drivers for video. I mean - why do you think UBOOT can show you a display at all?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_BIOS_Extensions

Last edited by Lou on 15-Aug-2018 at 11:23 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 15-Aug-2018 at 11:09 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 15-Aug-2018 at 05:36 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 15-Aug-2018 at 05:35 PM.

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vision 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 16-Aug-2018 0:32:27
#143 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 480
From: Unknown

@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote:

Starting with GLES2 was absolutely the best way forward to get Warp3D Nova and modern GL out the door. Of course we want MiniGL reloaded for existing apps, and I repeatedly suggested Regal (didn't know about GL4ES) as the path forward to get full OpenGL multiple times while you were on your "crusade."

My apologies if you find what I say patronizing, but we really do have more data to base our decisions on than you. And I'd appreciate it if you could stop continually telling me/us that our priorities and/or decisions are wrong and you know it better.

Hans


You can have all the data in the world, but it won't change the fact that the best way to update the3D support was to abandon GLES and go for the full OpenGL implementation, like Bzsili did. I know it's a lot more work, but the difference is so abysmal... What games/apps are gles worth it? small indie spare time projects? going to full OpenGL brought a lot of benefits to AROS, and that case proved that IT CAN BE DONE (well: AROS proved so many times that can be done so many things that here were repeated like mantras "that can't be done" for years).

Last edited by vision on 16-Aug-2018 at 12:33 AM.

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amigakit 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 16-Aug-2018 0:38:41
#144 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2435
From: www.amigakit.com

@kas1e

Thanks for your good work

Quote:
amigadeveloper's bugreport page die too


I have fixed this tonight. It has been migrated to the new Amiga Developer server and updated.

_________________
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Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | X5000

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 16-Aug-2018 14:28:47
#145 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2121
From: Trondheim, Norway

@vision

Quote:

(well: AROS proved so many times that can be done so many things that here were repeated like mantras "that can't be done" for years).


Indeed. The true shame is that even as AROS is the better choice, any OS3/OS4 developer who may want to jump ship, is legally prevented to do so. Praise Hyperion and their NDAs.

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Mr_Capehill 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 16-Aug-2018 18:40:14
#146 ]
Super Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2003
Posts: 1932
From: Yharnam

@vision

What is meant by "full OpenGL"? In terms of version numbers I mean.

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hth313 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 16-Aug-2018 21:47:26
#147 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 159
From: Delta, Canada

@kolla

Quote:

Indeed. The true shame is that even as AROS is the better choice, any OS3/OS4 developer who may want to jump ship, is legally prevented to do so. Praise Hyperion and their NDAs.


Is that true? Please tell me more.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 16-Aug-2018 22:03:44
#148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2121
From: Trondheim, Norway

@hth313

Anyone who has seen original Amiga OS source code, risk compromising AROS code with their "inside knowledge", and hence put AROS at risk of being legally attacked by Hyperion.

Last edited by kolla on 16-Aug-2018 at 10:04 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 16-Aug-2018 at 10:04 PM.

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Nonefornow 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 16-Aug-2018 23:33:32
#149 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 307
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

@kolla

In what form of an attack do you think it could be?

Is there reciprocity there?

Does anyone who has seen original AROS source code risk compromising Amiga OS code with their "inside knowledge" and hence put Amiga OS at risk of being legally attacked by AROS?.

AROS is free and open source.

Last edited by Nonefornow on 16-Aug-2018 at 11:38 PM.
Last edited by Nonefornow on 16-Aug-2018 at 11:37 PM.

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hth313 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 17-Aug-2018 2:07:51
#150 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 159
From: Delta, Canada

@kolla

But this as you mention has nothing to do with any NDA of Hyperion.

If you make a cleanroom reimplementation you cannot risk having people on the project that have seen the original source, or worse, worked on it. This is the whole meaning of doing it cleanroom.

It is the other way around, AROS and MorphOS do not want these people. It is not that Hyperion forbids them from working there, because if it did, I would be shocked.

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tonyw 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 17-Aug-2018 2:37:15
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3229
From: Sydney (of course)

@hth313

Yes, the suggestion is absurd. As an experienced hardware/firmware/software designer, I can work on any project I please. My NDA with Hyperion won't stop me from working on other projects, only sharing private code from OS4. Anything that is in the SDK is, of course, public knowledge.

It's the controllers of clean-room projects that have to prevent people like me from contributing to their projects.

_________________
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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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realize 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 17-Aug-2018 3:58:21
#152 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@K-L

Quote:
So even if the Enhancer Pack is great, it won't update the core of the system and we'll get stuck with nothing new regarding SMP or memory.


Please PLEASE all os 4 users and fanboys get smp out of your. it cannot and will not ever happen. it would break all the legacy compatibliity rendering os4 useless, might as well use linux. every time someone posts this I reply with this , yet no one believes it. This is due to the false hype. its retarded.

also, what in the world would you need smp for with os4. What program? Lol there is no software that needs it. My peg2 g4 is plenty fast for any os4 app.

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realize 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 17-Aug-2018 4:00:35
#153 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@kas1e

Quote:
And that Tabor thing, which was from very beginning bad choice of CPU, which make it all spend developer's time to nothing and loose precius resources ..


almost the entire os4 effort has been wasted with this problem. All the developer resources going to porting to alien hardware instead of software for the platform which is sorely needed. they should have went with mac ppc like morphos bad management.

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realize 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 17-Aug-2018 4:02:42
#154 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@amigakit

Quote:
Finally, apart from members of the Amiga Developer Team, let us not forget the talents of other great developers like Daniel Muessener, HunoPPC and Entwickler-X who also contribute to keep software flowing.


this is true. even if 'hyperion' went away development would still continue. As a matter of fact, I think the best thing to happen would be to get OS4 out of its hostage position with ben hermans.

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realize 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 17-Aug-2018 4:05:17
#155 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@Trekiej

Users like you keep os4 alive! There needs to be more software for purchase. The amiga app store is the future.

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realize 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 17-Aug-2018 4:08:52
#156 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@fishy_fis

Quote:
Why? OS4 hardware is too weak to push 10 year old video cards, let alone newer ones and the api is waaay too simple and outdated to support features from the last 10 or 15 years as well.


I dont understand all the hype on modern gfx cards when there is virtually no software to run on them.

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AdvancedFollower 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 17-Aug-2018 9:27:21
#157 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Aug-2017
Posts: 79
From: Sweden

@realize

Quote:
almost the entire os4 effort has been wasted with this problem. All the developer resources going to porting to alien hardware instead of software for the platform which is sorely needed. they should have went with mac ppc like morphos bad management.


From what I understand, the FPU code has worked fine for some time. The networking drivers however have been taking literally YEARS to complete. If it takes years to write a simple Ethernet NIC driver, the problem isn't the hardware, it's the developers, which still ultimately falls on the management however...

Quote:
I dont understand all the hype on modern gfx cards when there is virtually no software to run on them.


Main reason would be to allow the OS to support GPU's you can actually buy in a store today. After buying your $2500 system, having to scavenge Ebay for a second-hand GPU that actually works is not a good first impression.
You can buy a low-end version of a newer GPU, it doesn't have to be the high-end $599 version.

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Trixie 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 17-Aug-2018 9:44:47
#158 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2058
From: Czech Republic

@AdvancedFollower

Quote:
The networking drivers however have been taking literally YEARS to complete.

AFAIK the A1222 (Tabor) Ethernet driver was completed about four months ago and is currently being betatested.

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Kremlar 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 17-Aug-2018 11:16:02
#159 ]
Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2010
Posts: 99
From: Milford, MA

@kolla

Quote:
Anyone who has seen original Amiga OS source code, risk compromising AROS code with their "inside knowledge", and hence put AROS at risk of being legally attacked by Hyperion.


LOL!

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 17-Aug-2018 11:38:12
#160 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2121
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Nonefornow

Quote:

Does anyone who has seen original AROS source code risk compromising Amiga OS code with their "inside knowledge" and hence put Amiga OS at risk of being legally attacked by AROS?.


No, because...

Quote:
AROS is free and open source.


and also because (iirc) there is a clause in the AROS license that specifically allows AROS code to be used in the other Amiga OSes.

Last edited by kolla on 17-Aug-2018 at 12:01 PM.

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