@outrun1978

Quote:

Realistically what do people feel they are missing out on the current version of Odyssey 1.23 on AmigaOS 4 and 1.25 on MorphOS when it comes to Internet usage and do they think what they are missing out on encompasses your average Joe user of the Internet?

For me things simply working. The following sites work partially or are corrupted but are unusable:
https://github.com
https://www.xda-developers.com

There are others I find by just searching for things. So it become easier to just use a modern browser. Even reporting a YAM bug can't be done in AmigaOS anymore so it kinda forces you just do it on a PC and forget about internetting on OS4.

@simplex

Quote:

I loved the feel of the Amiga keyboard, the Amiga mouse, the way it seems to move across the screen in a completely different fashion than it does on Windows and the rest, .

errm, and hows that preserved on ng machines which have technically more in common with windows and mac pcs than with genuine amiga?

@kas1e

Quote:

but somebody else should fix all fo them :)

unfortunately, with os4 (or morphos) you have not much opportunity to fix anything yourself even if you was able and wanted.

@simplex

Quote:

simplex wrote: 32-bit AROS or 64-bit AROS?

doesnt matter, its >90% the same code base. simply pick your preference.

@paolone

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paolone wrote: @all Every year the same sadness, the same argumentation, and the more time lasts, the more it gets sadder. I will repeat it once again: why you people so boldly refuse to look at the bare truth and to get real? What are you waiting for? Please stop this whole madness and start supporting, helping and adopting the AROS project as much as you can. There is NO OTHER chance. That was true 10 and 15 years ago, figure it now.

I used to care about the situation on the AmigaOS side. Worry and hope. In the end I realized that for me it is just a dead end unless a miracle happens. Now I am doing what I can to move towards AROS and I no longer have any worries. Granted, I regard it as my hobby platform, I expect to be using macOS or Linux as my main OS.

For me the salvation was to give in and face reality. Besides, I have only been back to the Amiga for 9 months, it did not take me years to figure it out.

@wawa

Quote:

errm, and hows that preserved on ng machines which have technically more in common with windows and mac pcs than with genuine amiga?

It's probably not, which is one reason I don't own a NG Amiga.

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@wawa

Quote:

doesnt matter, its >90% the same code base. simply pick your preference.

As I recall, it matters a great deal to the developers, who are committed to 64-bit, while all the distros continue using 32-bit. I understand the reasons, but when I was trying to get up to speed with how to develop for AROS, the devs strongly urged me not to work on 32-bit AROS. IIRC the two are incompatible.

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@simplex
Quote:

As I recall, it matters a great deal to the developers, who are committed to 64-bit, while all the distros continue using 32-bit. I understand the reasons, but when I was trying to get up to speed with how to develop for AROS, the devs strongly urged me not to work on 32-bit AROS. IIRC the two are incompatible.incomptible.

no, you mix that up (a bit).

aros has two abis, v0 (which current i386 32bit distros are based upon) and v1 (which is being worked on, among others m68k and x86_64).

in fact these are binary incompatible, same as m68k is not compatible with x86. but the source is common. v0 is simply a branch in repository which is mostly abandoned even if improvements are being backported or pushed to it time to time, when it is possible and desirable and of course when it doesnt break the compatibility.

what concerns abi v1 it isnt stable yet. the only platform that can be considered stable to certain extent is m68k as it is defined by genuine amiga compatibility and this reference remains valid.

@simplex

so to clarify, i dont know what you have been told exactly, but it might burn to that working for i386 (pc) may really not make much sense today, if there isnt a legacy that needs to be kept up. however we will keep to have 32bit platforms in aros, say ppc or m68k. so 32bit wont be lost, if yyou care for that. you have probably been urged to help with abi v1 instead of v0.

@wawa

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... it might burn to that working for i386 (pc) may really not make much sense today, ...

AROS x86 ABI V0 is the AROS version you can really use on a PC. It is available as a complete distribution has ready compiles applications, browsers, games and everything.

So if you are an application or game programmer you should go to AROS x86 first.

AROS 68k might by something different but AROS 64 is not very useful for users, it is a project for system programmers.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 15-Dec-2018 at 09:41 PM.

@wawa

Quote:

no, you mix that up (a bit).

Well, let's compare what I wrote with what you wrote:
Quote:

Quote: the developers, who are committed to 64-bit, while all the distros continue using 32-bit. aros has two abis, v0 (which current i386 32bit distros are based upon) and v1 (which is being worked on, among others m68k and x86_64).

Insert the word "abi" in my comment, and we have substantially the same assertion.
Quote:

Quote: IIRC the two are incompatible. in fact these are binary incompatible

Insert "binary" in my remark and we have the same assertion. You may have thought I meant "source" but of course I didn't since the whole point of AROS is to be source compatible with AmigaOS 3. Of course it shouldn't be source incompatible with itself.
Quote:

Quote: the devs strongly urged me not to work on 32-bit AROS. working for i386 (pc) may really not make much sense today, if there isnt a legacy that needs to be kept up. ...you have probably been urged to help with abi v1 instead of v0.

How does this differ with what I wrote?!?

BTW, I don't mean any of that as a criticism of AROS. I think it's the only future an Amiga-style OS really has. (maybe MorphOS; I haven't looked at that for various reasons) But what I wrote is so accurate that you basically restated it. If you think I am mistaken, then by all means elaborate, but please don't just repeat what I write and claim I have mixed things up.

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@simplex
Quote:

but please don't just repeat what I write and claim I have mixed things up

i have written: "(a bit)", or maybe it red like that to me.
because it seemed like you suggest that 32bit or i386 is exclusive to abi v0, which is kind of deprecated. sure it is still base for the current distributions.

the thing as i see it, how to proceed with the transition to abi v1 is to prepare rather sources that can be (re)compiled for aros future targets, whatever they be, than simply delivering an architecture specific binary and throwing the sources in the bin.

@wawa

Well I should need to fix things, that payed for, I expect the stuff I pay for to be beta tested and working, when buy software from AEON or Hyperion; I expect the software to work.

As for development tools, I kind of expect that Hyperion has invested in third-party developers write software for AmigaOS, so it make sense that they spend time on updating and making sure tools work like Grep.

Then when we have tools we need, it there be lot more developers working on things, but when development tools are not good, it's really hard to fix anything.

it's like having to fix the wrench before you fix the bike.

Note I don't need buggy X-Dook or AmiDook, I have written my own Excalibur, but I payed for X-Dook and AmiDook, I expect the things I buy to work.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Dec-2018 at 11:38 PM.

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@terminills

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terminills wrote: @AP Raspbian is the official OS of the Raspberry PI. Quote: Raspbian is our official operating system for all models of the Raspberry Pi. https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/

But we can agree, that it is nevertheless just a Linux-distro? Which was the whole point of my argument. As I said before: There are also customised Linux distros for A-EON hardware (and I know, that PPC isn't the best platform for Linux).

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@NutsAboutAmiga

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Note I don't need buggy X-Dook

X-Dock is very stable and over the course of the last year we have eliminated identified bugs quickly and released updates. Your statement suggests that the software is otherwise so if you have identified a specific bug then report it to me so I can get it resolved.

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edit: ah whatever..

Last edited by wawa on 16-Dec-2018 at 01:12 PM.

@simplex

Quote:

simplex wrote: @wawa Quote: doesnt matter, its >90% the same code base. simply pick your preference. As I recall, it matters a great deal to the developers, who are committed to 64-bit, while all the distros continue using 32-bit. I understand the reasons, but when I was trying to get up to speed with how to develop for AROS, the devs strongly urged me not to work on 32-bit AROS. IIRC the two are incompatible.

What are you talking about? AROS is AROS and its source base is common for every platform. The idea is that if you start coding without the target in mind, but using common techniques to ensure PORTABILITY, then you can compile for any target. There's no 'urgence' to 'not work' for 32 bit AROS, that should be a complete madness since M68K is a 32bit target and i386 ABI v0 is a 32 bit targetr, and both are the most used AROS flavours at all. You just should code for the platform you like but KEEPING IN MIND that also other platform and targets exist.

@paolone

Quote:

What are you talking about? AROS is AROS and its source base is common for every platform. ...There's no 'urgence' to 'not work' for 32 bit AROS...

That was been elaborated in later posts, mostly by wawa, so you can read his posts yourself. My point is simply that, while I was trying to get up to speed to developing for it, I was asked not to work on the ABI v0, because it was considered obsolete. If I could recover my earlier posts from AROS Exec (I'm quite sure that's where the conversation took place) then I would quote some of that here.

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@simplex

Yes, that is kind of right. AROS 64, AROS for arm, AROS 68k. All are abi v.1 only.
The reason the distributions like AspireOS and Icaros stick to abi v.0 for now is that
its been around for a long time. Lot's of programs been ported to abi v.0 and would need
a recompile to work on abi v.1. That might not seam to difficult but there are programs where we don't have the source code etc. It is also a fakt that abi v.1 will be broken again before considered a stable branch and then all software need to be compiled again.
It is correct to work on abi v.1 regarding OS features. It is where updates gone for many years now. Some times stuff been backported to abi v.0
For software it is different. Most compile for abi v.0

This is little confusing and eventualy I hope everything will be abi v.1

Last edited by nikosidis on 16-Dec-2018 at 07:51 PM.

@simplex

Quote:

@wawa Quote: errm, and hows that preserved on ng machines which have technically more in common with windows and mac pcs than with genuine amiga? It's probably not, which is one reason I don't own a NG Amiga.

Clearly the keyboard is different, but mouse behaviour is somewhat preserved, the mouse on my SAM gets bogged down much less than the mouse on the linux laptop when the machine is under heavey load for example.

Not identical to classic hardware but neither is windows/linuxlike, some where in between I guess.

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