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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4 Hardware
      /  Tabor/X5000
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PosterThread
Hypex 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 8-Jan-2020 13:38:37
#141 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9771
From: Greensborough, Australia

@michalsc

Quote:
You say it was so cool on classing AmigaOs. Let's have a look at adding two double numbers together. When using mathieee* libs, you just call IEEEDPAdd. This is how it looks behind the scenes:


And this is for FPU optimised code. I can only imagine how bad it would be for 68000 code. But at least it shouldn't need the stack.

Does it really need to use stack? They didn't provide an instruction to move to/from data and FPU registers?

They made the same mistake on the PowerPC!

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Hypex 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 8-Jan-2020 13:44:14
#142 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9771
From: Greensborough, Australia

@tlosm

Thanks, it almost works on Odyssey. It just looks like a pixelated, left rotated view of 80 column text from a C64 in low res.

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michalsc 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 8-Jan-2020 19:22:21
#143 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 262
From: Germany

@Hypex

Quote:
And this is for FPU optimised code. I can only imagine how bad it would be for 68000 code. But at least it shouldn't need the stack.

Does it really need to use stack? They didn't provide an instruction to move to/from data and FPU registers?


They did. You can move signed byte, word or long (with conversion to/from floating point) or 32-bit float type between CPU and FPU reg. But you cannot move double - here you need the stack.

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matthey 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 8-Jan-2020 19:55:09
#144 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 657
From: Kansas

Quote:

Hypex wrote:
And this is for FPU optimised code. I can only imagine how bad it would be for 68000 code. But at least it shouldn't need the stack.

Does it really need to use stack? They didn't provide an instruction to move to/from data and FPU registers?

They made the same mistake on the PowerPC!


The 68000-68060 only have 32 bit integer registers and floating point doubles are 64 bit. This would require an instruction which specifys 2 integer registers for conversion to double. An instruction using a 64 bit integer format like this is possible but does not exist for any 68k FPU. The C language used double exclusively before C99 added single precision floating point support. Without a 64 bit double integer register conversion format, the function to do the FADD.D would look something like the following.

add_double:
move.l d0,-(sp)
move.l d1,-(sp)
fmove.d (sp)+,fp0
move.l d2,-(sp)
move.l d3,-(sp)
fadd.d (sp)+,fp0
fmove.d fp0,-(sp)
move.l (sp)+,d1
move.l (sp)+,d0
rts

Registers d0 and d1 are trash on function calls so do *not* need to be saved and restored from the stack. Registers d2 and d3 are unchanged so do *not* need to be saved and restored from the stack. Register fp0 is trash so does *not* need to be saved and restored from the stack. Extra stack usage compared to using an FADD.D instruction is 12 bytes (4 bytes to save the return address of the JSR).

An FADD.S like function is simpler as a 32 bit single precision floating point number fits in a 32 bit integer register and the format is supported for conversion. The conversion function can look like the following.

add_single:
fmove.s d0,fp0
fadd.s d1,fp0
fmove.s fp0,d0
rts

Extra stack usage for a single precision add compared to using an FADD.S instruction is 4 bytes for the return address of the JSR.

Last edited by matthey on 09-Jan-2020 at 04:43 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 08-Jan-2020 at 08:21 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 08-Jan-2020 at 08:20 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 14-Jan-2020 14:25:09
#145 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2685
From: Amiga land

@Signal

I had been update my bech with your x1000 datas. i dont have your fft result.
because the GPU drowing test i assume your is hardinfo 0.6 or 0.61

bench

_________________
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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
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Amigo1 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 15-Jan-2020 6:16:36
#146 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1539
From: the Clouds

@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote:
@Everblue

if they was kind ... i will ask they for free but ...

one of my last free gift http://www.nonnaiole.it/


nice one.

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virgolamobile 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 15-Jan-2020 22:51:33
#147 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2004
Posts: 174
From: Somewhere in Northern Italy

@tlosm

A quick update on hardinfo benchmark using a T2080 CPU for your stats

Board NXP T2080RDB
Kernel 5.4.11 ppc64

Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid


CPU Blowfish 5.66
CPU CryptoHash 329.60
CPU Fibonacci 2.34
CPU N-Queens 3.54
FPU FFT 8.44
FPU Raytracing 2.63

Want a laptop based on this CPU?

The best you can do is donate to pay an engineer for its PCB design
https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/campaigns/donation-campaign-for-pcb-design-of-the-powerpc-notebook-motherboard/

Last edited by virgolamobile on 15-Jan-2020 at 10:56 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 15-Jan-2020 23:29:11
#148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2685
From: Amiga land

@virgolamobile

the debian sid/bullseye have the hardinfo 0.61 it use all the cpu for make the benchmarks in smp. pratically now the perfornances of 2080 are near the pi4 that have only 4 cpu :(
this is why im sure is time to switch to arm.

Last edited by tlosm on 15-Jan-2020 at 11:30 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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virgolamobile 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 16-Jan-2020 7:23:56
#149 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2004
Posts: 174
From: Somewhere in Northern Italy

@tlosm

To me it does not matter if there are more powerful CPUs out there, none of them is moving me any closer to have an AmigaOS 4 based laptop.
AmigaOS 4 is, and will be for the next years, available for PowerPC only, full stop.
Yes, AROS is the closest thing possible to AmigaOS on other platforms, but having tried that, I still largely prefer the feel of the original thing.
And yes, I have tried emulating AmigaOS 4 both using WinUAE and QEMU even on very powerful PCs, but still, the feel is crap compared to running it natively on PowerPC.

Last edited by virgolamobile on 16-Jan-2020 at 07:28 AM.

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wawa 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 16-Jan-2020 7:38:52
#150 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@virgolamobile

Quote:
none of them is moving me any closer to have an AmigaOS 4 based laptop.


has support for that potential ppc laptop been actually secured with os4 vendors?

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virgolamobile 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 16-Jan-2020 8:35:50
#151 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2004
Posts: 174
From: Somewhere in Northern Italy

@wawa

There is no board yet, not even the PCB design of it, so there is nothing tangible to talk about which is required to settle any kind of agreement.

That's why I am asking those interest in having a ppc laptop to support the donation campaign.
The sooner we will get the PCB, the sooner we can start discussing about it.

Being a fully open hardware project, anyone that is not happy with a specific component, or simply with the shape of the board, will be able to change it.

What did since the beginning of the project, was to carefully select a series of electronic components for which there are already open source drivers for Linux that works with the devkit T2080, and possibly, drivers for AmigaOS.
The CPU is very much similar to the one in the X5000 plus Altivec and more cores.

Here you may find the electrical schematics that came out of the first campaign
https://gitlab.com/oshw-powerpc-notebook/powerpc-laptop-mobo

Last edited by virgolamobile on 16-Jan-2020 at 08:43 AM.
Last edited by virgolamobile on 16-Jan-2020 at 08:40 AM.
Last edited by virgolamobile on 16-Jan-2020 at 08:37 AM.

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Amigo1 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 16-Jan-2020 9:38:35
#152 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1539
From: the Clouds

@virgolamobile

I will very likely buy one of these.
But at the moment I can not donate to the cause. I hope it will not fail because of me.

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KimmoK 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 16-Jan-2020 10:04:38
#153 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Is there OpenCL available for PowerPC Linux?

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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tlosm 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 18-Jan-2020 8:53:41
#154 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2685
From: Amiga land

@KimmoK

last test i did was negative. ppc BE is out of play in linux world if we dont count ports . everything is available on ppc LE.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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Zylesea 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 18-Jan-2020 10:38:46
#155 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2171
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@virgolamobile

wawa has an important point here. Before promoting this laptop project as an OS4 target better secure OS4 support in front of actually making a pcb. Hyperion did not support available laptops before - why should they provide support for this hypothtical laptop?
I fully understand the desire for an Amiga laptop - but with some will there would have been enough options. Why can MorphOS and AROS support _existing_ laptops, but OS4 not..?
Adding support for laptops was work, but it was a good investment. I use MorphOS on my Powerbook since more than 7 happy years now and OS4 is still dreaming about laptops in some future that eventually may or may not get supported by Hyperion...

Plus, this laptop project is doomed anyway. If it will ever get finalized (still some years!) it will probably be prohibitive expensive due to low production volume.
I mean ppc was/is a good ISA, but it failed on the market (except some niches to which personal computing does _not_ belong). I am sorry for that and wish it would have been different, but continuation of riding a dead horse is simply denying the reality!

_________________
My programs: www.via-altera.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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Rose 
Re: Tabor/X5000
Posted on 18-Jan-2020 13:12:23
#156 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 674
From: Unknown

@Zylesea

Not to mention that at the rate that they have managed to collect money. And how much they have said that they will need total to get those 5 prototypes manufactured and certificated T2080 will most likely be already EoL. Also there will be minor thingys like availability of MXM modules.

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