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BigD 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 14:01:37
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5029
From: UK

@Lou

Quote:
Besides, the stock gpu can stream 4k video - what PPC hardware is doing that?


The Tabor is nearly here. Buy it or the game is up. A-EON / Trevor is struggling to thrash out a workable SMT capable kernel and Hyperion are struggling to survive generally. No company has the health / money to jump to ARM without the Tabor / AmigaOS 4.2 / Enhancer package / ImageFX PPC being a success! None of the future is a given.

Last edited by BigD on 25-Oct-2019 at 02:03 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 14:11:36
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@BigD

there is no indication that there will be ever a ISA change even if Tabor will be a success

then there might be new batches of Tabors at best

Where do you read Trevor D. might be interested to finance a ARM-Port of AmigaOS?

And (how one of the two developers of 3.1.4 a little ironic stated) development of AmigaOS is more or less dead at the moment

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terminills 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 14:22:57
#43 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1376
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
You use the past tense. When is the release date?


I'm hoping before the end of the year tbh. But I still refuse to set a firm release date until I know for sure it's at least mostly bug free.

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BigD 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 14:25:14
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5029
From: UK

@terminills

Do a deal with A-EON for a Tabor bundle package. It would benefit you both.

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bison 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 14:25:33
#45 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1457
From: N-Space

@Lou

Quote:
Port everything to ARM.

ARM would be a nice Amiga platform, especially RPi4.

Quote:
Stop dependency on dead end and/or over-priced hardware.

PPC, now what it has been open sourced, isn't as bad a prospect as it was last year. It might be dead, but maybe it's just resting. If someone releases a PPC SoC with a GPU, that could change everything.

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Lou 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 15:21:42
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3996
From: Rhode Island

@bison

Quote:

bison wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
Port everything to ARM.

ARM would be a nice Amiga platform, especially RPi4.

Quote:
Stop dependency on dead end and/or over-priced hardware.

PPC, now what it has been open sourced, isn't as bad a prospect as it was last year. It might be dead, but maybe it's just resting. If someone releases a PPC SoC with a GPU, that could change everything.

PPC is still over-priced.

RPi is a nice platform where there are constant upgrades while keeping costs down.

...

For the performance market, the A77 can hit 3Ghz.

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KimmoK 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 15:58:52
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5156
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Lou

>I can hack on a PCIe port onto a Raspberry Pi 4 for ~$100.
>...for $35...

So that is $135 for RadeonHD capable RPi... I doubt.

(using main hard drive and RadeonHD via USB3 does not sound too compelling)

>Besides, the stock gpu can stream 4k video - what PPC hardware is doing that?

All PPC systems can do that with proper drivers and GPU.
Just like ARM.

>PPC is still over-priced.

CPU plays minor part in computer price.

>RPi is a nice platform where there are constant upgrades while keeping costs down.

Minimalized design but with high volume, those are the keys.

RPi kind of PPC system costs ~$199, but the there is no good SOC integrated GPU in PPC market.

IMO: AMD64 looks like a far better option if ISA would be changed, for now.

------

Perhaps it can be agreed that AmigaOS remain on PPC, AROS will focus on ARM and AMD64 is for MorphOS -> Peace ?

Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Oct-2019 at 04:28 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Oct-2019 at 04:12 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Oct-2019 at 04:06 PM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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OlafS25 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 16:23:29
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

I already mentioned it regarding Aros, but the same is true for AmigaOS

RPi is better because you have defined cheap hardware that is good enough for many tasks and produced (without changes) for years

AMD64 has (as X86 had) lots of different hardware you must support with drivers. Even Linux is not able to. Aros certainly had a number of weak areas but one of the worst was missing drivers. MorphOS might avoid that by only supporting selected systems, we will see how successful this concept will be.

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bison 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 16:28:16
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1457
From: N-Space

@Lou

Quote:
RPi is a nice platform where there are constant upgrades while keeping costs down.

RPi is very good in all respects but one: you can't boot it without proprietary firmware. The RPi Foundation has done what it can to make it as open as possible, but ultimately this goes back to ARM.

Edit: This may in fact be an issue with Broadcom and not ARM.

@OlafS25

Quote:
RPi is better because you have defined cheap hardware that is good enough for many tasks and produced (without changes) for years

Yes, this is one of the best things about RPi.

Last edited by bison on 25-Oct-2019 at 04:33 PM.
Last edited by bison on 25-Oct-2019 at 04:31 PM.

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number6 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 16:33:05
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10743
From: In the village

@terminills

Well, if the question was "what do you want 'for' Amiga", I think many would sum it up in this 12 seconds...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE

#6

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KimmoK 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 16:36:09
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5156
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@OlafS25

>RPi is better because you have defined cheap hardware that is good enough for many tasks and produced (without changes) for years

Drivers need to be started from 0?
No SATA.
Is UMA enough?
New Rpi appears every year, what to support?

>AMD64 has (as X86 had) lots of different hardware you must support with drivers
>....MorphOS might avoid that by only supporting selected systems, we will see how successful this concept will be.

Yes, on AMD64 "AmigaOS niche" should only support one board at a time and one GPU to start with. (some long term supported one, not the cheap ones)

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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bison 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 17:49:20
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1457
From: N-Space

@KimmoK

Quote:
New Rpi appears every year, what to support?

Most of these are minor updates. There was a 3 year interval from the release of the 3 B to the release of the 4 B. I don't think that's much of a problem.

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Lou 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 17:56:46
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3996
From: Rhode Island

@KimmoK

I've used these for crypto currency mining multiple gpus on one motherboard...

https://www.walmart.com/ip/USB-3-0-Pcie-PCI-E-Express-1X-To-16X-GPU-Extender-Riser-Card-Adapter-BTC-ETH/807865307?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=18757&adid=22222222227242188493&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=289682749833&wl4=pla-491158377039&wl5=9002152&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=125211065&wl11=online&wl12=807865307&veh=sem&gclid=CjwKCAjwusrtBRBmEiwAGBPgE98K9YTLXKVdnf4UF1_goxkG53V5w7ZPY7IS_TC4kNcaGDggKPUaEhoCMSAQAvD_BwE

https://www.hackster.io/news/pci-express-on-the-raspberry-pi-4-9b03c59f7a04

Last edited by Lou on 25-Oct-2019 at 05:57 PM.

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outlawal2 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 18:21:39
#54 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2010
Posts: 66
From: Unknown

@BigD

"The Tabor is nearly here."

Where did that information come from? I have read the latest Amiga Future issue and there is nothing in there (despite what Trever said about reading the update there) and I have not seen anything posted stating a release date.

Do you (or anyone for that matter) have any real information or is this just more conjecture?

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terminills 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 19:24:30
#55 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1376
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
Do a deal with A-EON for a Tabor bundle package. It would benefit you both.


If they want an OEM copy they can contact me. Otherwise it's purely up to the end-users if they're even interested. Typically software companies aren't the ones who contact the hardware manufacturers.

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klx300r 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 19:54:46
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3493
From: Toronto, Canada

I'm quite amazed with the new Amiga games/programs that have been coming out the past 5 years or so both classic and NG. Hardware wise all the new stuff for classics is again is crazy awesome.

be nice to clear up the legal mess with Cloanto (new Amiga Inc.) & Hyperion as I both use and love OS3.x and OS4.x. I hear that OS3.2 is in the works but what about OS4.2? A more updated Odyssey or TimberWolf would be top of my list for OS4.x software hands down.

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spudmiga 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 22:02:36
#57 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2002
Posts: 810
From: England, United Kingdom

@thread

Quote:

nikosidis wrote:
It would be good to hear what people want from Amiga. Does not matter if it is classic, NG, MorphOS, AROS.

Do you want more powerfull hardware?


Yes - AMIGA has always been a HARDWARE platform and it must continue to be so. Otherwise why would people give a second look to the Amiga when there are countless Linux distros that will do a much easier job for users wanting a Windows alternative for their x86/x64 systems - a wider range of software, a much larger user base and development community etc.

I think the way that new hardware has been brought about has been a little back to front. It seems to have been about getting ther most powerful expensive hardware available - which will limit sales. Amiga was always at its most successful when it brought value for money, and while I am not naive enough to think that with such smaller user base now it is achievable for mass produced cheap machines, the decision with the X1000 and X5000 priced at 2000 is a little odd to me.
With a Mac computers being still on the expensive side, there is still phenomenally a gap in the market for a more affordable hardware alternative to x64 systems.

The AmigaOne while also not exactly cheap was nearer to the price point we should be looking at. From what I have heard about the Tabor, this is the sort of thing we should have been looking at 10, 15 years ago. THEN look at more powerful expensive systems... for people who are in a position to afford it and when there is more chance of the OS / software being able to actually utilise its power.

At present we have the X5000 with apparently no "full support" of the OS and 2 cores only one of which can be used... it's a bit like splashing out on a Ferrari and having the engine limited to 50 miles per hour.

Quote:
Are you just happy about what it is?

I have never used OS4 but I like what I have seen from it. It definitely looks Amiga like - I would like it to succeed on more widely available, affordable hardware.

Quote:
Do you see any future?


As long as there are passionate, dedicated fans/users there will always be some form of future. Though inevitably, in decades to come, the original user base will be getting older and starting to die (sorry for being so dark) - you have to ask yourself will people born in 2019 really be that interested in the Amiga. They will not know what it is, and will have parents who don't know what it is. It sucks getting old but there we are.

Quote:
Do you want new games?


Yes, the AMIGA was best known for its games during its prime, and while the PS4/Xbox One era we will never be "blown away" by graphics anymore from an Amiga, that is not to say it cannot have some kick ass games with good playability and addictability.

Quote:
Do you want new software?


Without new software a platform is dead. So yes!

[B]Conclusion[/B]
It sounds so simple but is always so complicated to achieve in our community - we need a roadmap with hardware catering for the low end and power user and OS developed for it. The development and user base will all fall into place if we can get the foundations solid - that means getting all the legal mess sorted out once and for all.

Spud

Last edited by spudmiga on 25-Oct-2019 at 10:08 PM.

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Livebyfaith 
Re: What do you want from Amiga
Posted on 25-Oct-2019 23:17:25
#58 ]
New Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2010
Posts: 7
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

While I would ultimately want powerful hardware, without software it is pointless. So I think we should start with something affordable that could been made more powerful later. Once we can get affordable hardware out it will create a demand for software developers to create new software or port older software to it.

I think the main thing to get me back into Amiga fully, would be if I could see a clear roadmap to the future, affordable starter hardware and a modern web browser to actually be useful for the basic uses of computers today.

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