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      /  AmiWest 2019 clarifications
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PosterThread
ssolie 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 23:28:04
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Alberta, Canada

@mr2
Quote:
Is X-kernel part of ExecSG now or is not used at all?

The so-called "x-kernel" was a branch of the trunk used to experiment with multi-core. We don't use it any more.

I just had a chat with Thomas and he doesn't think we'll use much of the code from the x-kernel branch but instead reimplement that functionality on the trunk. I want small incremental changes towards multi-core on trunk myself which (fingers crossed) don't break compatibility.

Quote:
How do you plan to release updates for general public, with Enhancer, with AmigaOS update or a separate new product?

I prefer to stay lock step with Hyperion on releases. But we do have the option to do our own releases if it becomes necessary.

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ssolie 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 23:29:26
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Alberta, Canada

@KimmoK
Quote:
Do you have any info is someone is trying to get the audio working via RadeonHD cards?

Yes, I do.

However, that project is not really mine to speak about in public.

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ssolie 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 23:32:04
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Alberta, Canada

@bennymee
Quote:
Is there anything new in the RadeonHD drivers besides bugfixes Nova on Polaris ?

I can't really speak about A-EON's graphics drivers. Sorry.

Last edited by ssolie on 29-Oct-2019 at 11:34 PM.

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mr2 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 8:19:12
#24 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 644
From: Poland

@ssolie



Quote:
I prefer to stay lock step with Hyperion on releases.


Any idea about a payment for such releases? I would gladly pay if they bring some new features.

Thanks for your time

Last edited by mr2 on 30-Oct-2019 at 08:20 AM.

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Gregor 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 10:34:53
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2011
Posts: 141
From: Unknown

@ssolie

What is the latest U-Boot version for X5000/20? What fixes/new does it have compared to the original oct-2016 version? Will there be soon the option to have Kickstart on boot SD?

Could U-Boot updates put available also via the Updater? Currently only the customers's of certain dealers (=AmigaKit) has been able to get those. A-Eon has not delivered updates to some other dealers, even if they have requested them (e.g. Amedia, GGS Data).

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Petah 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 10:50:45
#26 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 362
From: Unknown

Quote:
AmiWest 2019 is now over and I'm pretty sure there are some unanswered questions. Please post your questions below and I'll do my best to answer them.


Thank you for reaching out like this - I have a feeling it's much appreciated. Here are my two questions:


  1. Percentage-wise, how much work on the drivers and other software exclusive to the A1222 Tabor is completed and how much remains to be done?


  2. Are any major hurdles concerning the remaining work on the A1222 Tabor software expected to show up, or will the final stretch be more about smooth sailing and less about obscure, hard-to-find bugs?

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BigD 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 11:07:03
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5029
From: UK

@Petah

Quote:
Are any major hurdles concerning the remaining work on the A1222 Tabor software expected to show up, or will the final stretch be more about smooth sailing and less about obscure, hard-to-find bugs?


How about you give them until the end of Q2 2020 and reassess whether you still want to keep on waiting at that point. The main delay currently is due to the hardware revision required due to obsolete components and additional testing being required before production (itself due to the 'exotic' choice of FPU and other driver delays). If the software driver / OS4.x ISO status creates further delays beyond the hardware availability timeline then A-EON really do have problems!

As always this will come down to...

"WHEN IT'S DONE!! "

The question to ask is HOW LONG CAN YOU WAIT?

The closer to Christmas 2020 it gets the more inviting a PS5 purchase will be with that sort of money but we're all different and some of us are slaves to punishment!

_________________
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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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Lou 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 14:54:36
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3996
From: Rhode Island

Now that ExecSG is under *good* ownership...

What are the odds of back-porting to 68k?
What are the odds of the port everyone and their mother wants (ARM)?

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aperezbios 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 16:22:22
#29 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2008
Posts: 25
From: Silicon Valley

@Gregor

I'd like to understand what evidence you have that "A-Eon has not delivered updates to some other dealers, even if they have requested them (e.g. Amedia, GGS Data)."

Are you one of those dealers? Do you even own an X5000? I don't have any reason to believe you.

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coldacid 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 17:15:04
#30 ]
New Member
Joined: 27-Oct-2019
Posts: 9
From: Candinavia

I may not be ssolie, but I think I can answer these...

Quote:

Lou wrote:
Now that ExecSG is under *good* ownership...

What are the odds of back-porting to 68k?

Almost entirely zero.

Quote:

What are the odds of the port everyone and their mother wants (ARM)?

Infinitely more likely than a 68k backport, but it's probably quite far down the backlog if it's on there at all.

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KimmoK 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 17:46:20
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5156
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Lou

>What are the odds of back-porting to 68k?

OS components and apps work only on PowerPC, so that would be futile.

>What are the odds of the port everyone and their mother wants (ARM)?

OS components (eg drivers) and apps works only on PowerPC, so that would be futile.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 18:15:10
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11166
From: Norway

@KimmoK

I don't 100% agree to that, just because ExecSG is made for PPC, does not mean it can't be compiled for 680x0, the question is if you really want too, the OS3.x Exec is assembler optimized for 680x0 CPU, while ExecSG is not, it be slow and bloated, it won't make lot of sense. but I can imageine some of ExecSG features being backported to Exec.library.

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Skateman 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 18:44:56
#33 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2017
Posts: 88
From: Netherlands

@aperezbios

Hi Alex,

Could you please let me know what the latest U-Boot version for the X5000 is?
Is it already possible to probe the Mac addresses from the Cyrus board, or write the correct Macs to the boards eeprom using u-boots mac ?

Thanks


_________________
AmigaOne X5000 -> 2GHz / 16GB RAM / Radeon R7 250 / M-Audio 5.1 -> AmigaOS 4.1 FE / Ubuntu Linux
Amiga 1200 -> Recapped / 68ec020 ACA 1221ec / CF HDD / RetroNET connected to the world

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coldacid 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 18:47:21
#34 ]
New Member
Joined: 27-Oct-2019
Posts: 9
From: Candinavia

@NutsAboutAmiga @KimmoK

Backporting to 68k for AmigaOS 4.x is definitely achievable (abandoned PPC-only software projects aside) but I don't think there's any desire from the OS devs, nor enough demand from users, to warrant the process. There are much better things on which time and money can be spent for AmigaOS, rather than trying to travel back in time. As it is, even with AOS4 on 68k, there's no way to emulate other processors on one of those at a speed anyone could accept. You'd be stuck with just those apps which are already 68k.

Regarding ARM, technically it shouldn't be that big of a deal. We already have proven emulation for 68k and thanks to UAE, PPC emulation is certainly doable as well. I could see the existing 68k emulation in AOS4 being updated to target ARM, and adding support for PPC emulation as well. And if ExecSG and other system components are primarily written in high-level languages with only minimal architecture-specific code (like most OSes are written these days) then porting shouldn't even require that much effort. But again, the question comes down to the value of such work compared to everything else desired of ExecSG and the rest of the operating system.

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kamelito 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 19:03:24
#35 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 707
From: Unknown

@ssolie

How did Microsoft managed to be very compatible with all previous versions of Windows (even before win95) and be able to have true SMP/memory protection and so on, why it is not possible on Amiga? This mean that technical solutions exist right?

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pavlor 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 19:57:24
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9014
From: Unknown

@kamelito

Give me 20 millions EUR and I will give you what you dream of.

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Gregor 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 20:42:55
#37 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2011
Posts: 141
From: Unknown

@aperezbios

Quote:
I'd like to understand what evidence you have that "A-Eon has not delivered updates to some other dealers, even if they have requested them (e.g. Amedia, GGS Data)."

Are you one of those dealers? Do you even own an X5000? I don't have any reason to believe you.


I really cannot understand your hostile attitude towards me and my question addressed to Steven...

I'm only referring to the information I have got from those dealers, and I cannot see why they would have lied to me. Also AOTL informed me they have not got U-Boot updates from A-Eon, but I do not know whether they have specially asked for them.

I could of course forward the messages and a bill of my X5000 purchase to you, but I do not see any reason for that... Your suspects are your own problem.

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kamelito 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 20:43:03
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 707
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Im speaking about technical solutions not money.

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pavlor 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 20:52:16
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9014
From: Unknown

@kamelito

Then you will never get the answer you seek.

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Snorg 
Re: AmiWest 2019 clarifications
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 21:42:03
#40 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Feb-2018
Posts: 117
From: Unknown

@kamelito

Whereas I am not an Amiga developer, I have not exhaustively studied the problem, however I am familiar with a least some of the public chatter about the issues and I am well versed in concurrency, parallel programming, locking, lockless, etc. from a software perspective.

Multi-processing implies true concurrency, whereby multiple threads/processes may actually execute at the same time, not simply taking turns as granted cpu time by the scheduler. When this is coupled with memory re-ordering, a number of problems emerge.

For AmigaOS, the fundamental problem is that memory cannot be protected in the sense of isolating address spaces because the OS cannot know, apart from broad categories, what memory can be considered shared between processes (and the kernel for that matter) and what is 'off limits.' In particular, the message passing scheme, while quick, did not place sufficient restrictions on what could be exchanged - for instance you can pass pointers around (a reference to values rather than copies of values). Why is this a problem? It assumed a common, shared memory space instead of private, per-process address spaces. In other words, it's kind of all or nothing.

So that is water under the bridge for AmigaOS

Last edited by Snorg on 30-Oct-2019 at 09:50 PM.

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