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/  Forum Index
   /  General Technology (No Console Threads)
      /  Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
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amigang 
Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 14-Sep-2020 15:48:09
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1506
From: Cheshire, England

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54142567

So Nvidia has bought Arm for $40 billion, do you think this will help or hurt Arm to take over x86?

I think it will kinda help as long as Nvidia is smart about it and keep the way Arm opreates now, and not try and do locked down verison of Arm like they like todo with there GPU.

What do Amiga users think?

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billt 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 14-Sep-2020 15:55:53
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3156
From: Maryland, USA

@amigang

it puts them in a position to shut down a number of their competitors in the ARM SoC market...

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matthey 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 14-Sep-2020 18:15:53
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 809
From: Kansas

Quote:

amigang wrote:
So Nvidia has bought Arm for $40 billion, do you think this will help or hurt Arm to take over x86?


There is an agreement now but it is possible that the deal will not be completed.

Quote:

I think it will kinda help as long as Nvidia is smart about it and keep the way Arm opreates now, and not try and do locked down verison of Arm like they like todo with there GPU.

What do Amiga users think?


The success of ARM has largely come from open licensing and independence. Nvidia has a history of restrictive licensing and tight protection of intellectual property. Big competitors of Nvidia who use ARM are likely trying to foil the deal and are looking at alternatives to ARM now. The majority of ARM customers will probably wait and see what Nvidia does. ARM will likely have significant independence as a division of Nvidia but I don't see Nvidia changing philosophies overnight. I'm not sure how two opposite philosophies can coexist from the same company and this would be a major challenge to the combined company. I expect ARM will initially lose customers under Nvidia and Nvidia will be tempted to raise licensing fees to offset these losses. The deal could turn into an opportunity for non ARM architectures.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 14-Sep-2020 19:21:30
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3452
From: Unknown

@amigang

Semiaccurate thinks differently
https://www.semiaccurate.com/2020/09/13/nvidia-will-be-the-end-of-arm/

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KimmoK 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 14-Sep-2020 20:01:36
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5191
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

I doubt it will be any easier for small niche to write graphic drivers for small ARM devices in the future ... it will remain nearly impossible, like it has been.

But AROS for ARM might become able to use nvidia binary drivers on ARM... perhaps.


I wonder if nvidia is hoping for ARM+nvidia game consoles...

Last edited by KimmoK on 14-Sep-2020 at 08:03 PM.

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matthey 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 14-Sep-2020 20:43:56
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 809
From: Kansas

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote:
Semiaccurate thinks differently
https://www.semiaccurate.com/2020/09/13/nvidia-will-be-the-end-of-arm/


That article is very pessimistic but it is true that Nvidia has burned bridges in their relationship with some major ARM using companies. China is worried about the U.S. control of ARM as the Reuters version of the article goes into.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-arm-holdings-m-a-nvidia-industry-anal/nvidias-arm-deal-sparks-quick-backlash-in-chip-industry-idUSKBN2650GT

There are too many companies and customers who are dependent on ARM for it to disappear quickly. ARM has made it so easy for a la carte chips that it would be difficult for customers to return to complex logic design and development. All three articles mention RISC-V as benefiting which is likely especially from the improving open hardware designs which can now be used as a lower risk alternative to ARM designs. I don't think the RISC-V architecture is the preferred ARM alternative as much as the open hardware is attractive. Maybe we will even see new organic architectural research and development looking for competitive advantages as die shrinks become more expensive and less frequent.

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bison 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 14-Sep-2020 20:55:58
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1667
From: N-Space

@amigang

I wonder what's going to happen with Mali as a result of this.

Last edited by bison on 14-Sep-2020 at 08:57 PM.

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Rose 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 14-Sep-2020 22:53:37
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 715
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Quote:
I wonder if nvidia is hoping for ARM+nvidia game consoles...


Ever heard about Nintendo Switch?

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Rose 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 14-Sep-2020 23:00:35
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 715
From: Unknown

@amigang

Quote:
So Nvidia has bought Arm for $40 billion, do you think this will help or hurt Arm to take over x86?


Or... Might they have bought it to for using in their products which already use ARM like nvidia Drive...

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Hammer 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 15-Sep-2020 5:11:50
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4029
From: Australia

@amigang

Existing NVIDIA's ARMv8 compatible CPUs didn't change the desktop PCs situation.

Intel Tigerlake and Icelake already beat Nintendo Switch's Terga X1 mobile SoC (with iGPU similar to GeForce 920MX).

AMD's K12 is ARMv8 compatible CPU clone that leverages Zen's R&D.

Last edited by Hammer on 15-Sep-2020 at 05:18 AM.

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Hammer 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 15-Sep-2020 5:21:45
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4029
From: Australia

@matthey

Well, NXP (Netherlands, EU) owns 68K instruction set and it's IP.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 15-Sep-2020 7:39:07
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 352
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

This is what headlines reported:

Quote:
Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion


This is what I read:

Quote:
Hammer and Matthey to resume ranting about teraflops and registers for the next 25 years


MRJM!!!!

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amigang 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 15-Sep-2020 7:54:38
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1506
From: Cheshire, England

@Hammer

Quote:
Existing NVIDIA's ARMv8 compatible CPUs didn't change the desktop PCs situation.


Desktop market is tiny, server and laptop is where it at, more and more server are switchImg to arm due to cost saving in power and there is a slight rise in arm use on laptop too, I think when Apple switch, I expect to see more windows laptop powered arm chip out in the wild to.

Plus if 5g as good as everyone claims, (u can do this now but it a little slow) I see the rise of dumb devices that in them selves are not that powerful, but basically just stream either a game or desktop to your device.

Plus now nvidia owns arm I wouldn’t be surprise if we see more gpu work being the focus of arm.

Last edited by amigang on 15-Sep-2020 at 07:56 AM.

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Wol 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 15-Sep-2020 10:07:05
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 970
From: UK.......Sol 3.

@amigang

I was hoping that a decent company like Huawei would buy arm.

Wol.

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Hammer 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 15-Sep-2020 13:56:58
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4029
From: Australia

@amigang

Quote:

amigang wrote:
@Hammer

Quote:
Existing NVIDIA's ARMv8 compatible CPUs didn't change the desktop PCs situation.


Desktop market is tiny, server and laptop is where it at, more and more server are switchImg to arm due to cost saving in power and there is a slight rise in arm use on laptop too, I think when Apple switch, I expect to see more windows laptop powered arm chip out in the wild to.

Plus if 5g as good as everyone claims, (u can do this now but it a little slow) I see the rise of dumb devices that in them selves are not that powerful, but basically just stream either a game or desktop to your device.

Plus now nvidia owns arm I wouldn’t be surprise if we see more gpu work being the focus of arm.

1. Intel is the largest semiconductor company in the world which mostly sells to laptop and desktop markets.

2. Your non-desktop argument is a red herring to my argument and this topic i.e. x86.

Last edited by Hammer on 15-Sep-2020 at 01:58 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 15-Sep-2020 at 01:57 PM.

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matthey 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 15-Sep-2020 17:48:36
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 809
From: Kansas

Quote:

Hammer wrote:
Well, NXP (Netherlands, EU) owns 68K instruction set and it's IP.


Patents usually expire after 20 years so all 68k patents should be expired. The Innovasic Fido is sold using the CPU32 ISA which is a subset of the 68020 ISA. The SuperH architecture with patents expired was revived as the J-core architecture with support from some of the original designers. The 68k was much more popular with better support though.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion, end of x86?... part 2
Posted on 15-Sep-2020 18:47:55
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 352
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

MEGA_RJ_MICAL wrote:
This is what headlines reported:

Quote:
Nvidia buys ARM for $40 Billion


This is what I read:

Quote:
Hammer and Matthey to resume ranting about teraflops and registers for the next 25 years


MRJM!!!!


...

Quote:

matthey wrote:
Quote:

Hammer wrote:
Well, NXP (Netherlands, EU) owns 68K instruction set and it's IP.


Patents usually expire after 20 years so all 68k patents should be expired. The Innovasic Fido is sold using the CPU32 ISA which is a subset of the 68020 ISA. The SuperH architecture with patents expired was revived as the J-core architecture with support from some of the original designers. The 68k was much more popular with better support though.



I am starting to think that matthey and Hammer are actually the same person.
You know...

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