Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5904 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
66 crawler(s) on-line.
 13 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 mobileconnect2:  5 mins ago
 deadduckni:  24 mins ago
 Vidar:  30 mins ago
 Akiko:  31 mins ago
 ilbarbax:  44 mins ago
 freak:  46 mins ago
 Gregor:  47 mins ago
 MEGA_RJ_MICAL:  1 hr 3 mins ago
 Musashi5150:  1 hr 29 mins ago
 Trekiej:  2 hrs 27 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  New message on amiga.com
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread
cdimauro 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 24-Oct-2020 20:31:53
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@OlafS25

Alexander Kneer and Tobias Abt wonted to sell it, they found buyer's.

https://oldschoolgameblog.com/2017/04/13/amiga-picasso96-sold-to-individual-computers-and-hyperion-entertainment/

And then? AFAIR Michele Battilana (Cloanto's owner) show the one-time payment that he maid to one of them to get the rights to distribute Picasso96.

That should be enough to understand how is the situation.

And I recall very well that it was Jens (I think just after that he bought P96), that menaced of legal actions against the company (read: Cloanto) which will not pay him.

This just to put the all REAL facts on the table.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 24-Oct-2020 20:40:48
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5794
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

I am aware of this

I do not understand what you mean. That does not change what I wrote... Jens S. obviously expected to get license fees and that did not happen

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 24-Oct-2020 20:44:38
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5794
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

to be precise he accused Cloanto to illegal distribute P96 and asked them to sue him. A little strange... if he would be sure about it he could simply sue Cloanto for it. Instead he wanted them to take the risk about it. Why should they?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 24-Oct-2020 20:49:38
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1713
From: N-Space

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Cloanto does not have roadmap, he has no clue.

How do you know this?

Mike is very cautious and guarded in his statements, so unless you have inside information it seems impossible to know what his plans are. He did say he would like to see OS3.1 open source, but not much beyond that, as far as I recall.

Last edited by bison on 24-Oct-2020 at 08:51 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cdimauro 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 24-Oct-2020 20:53:21
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@OlafS25 Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@cdimauro

to be precise he accused Cloanto to illegal distribute P96 and asked them to sue him. A little strange... if he would be sure about it he could simply sue Cloanto for it. Instead he wanted them to take the risk about it. Why should they?

AFAIR Jens was menacing a lawsuit against Cloanto (without citing it).

@bison Quote:

bison wrote:
@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Cloanto does not have roadmap, he has no clue.

How do you know this?

Mike is very cautious and guarded in his statements, so unless you have inside information it seems impossible to know what his plans are. He did say he would like to see OS3.1 open source, but not much beyond that, as far as I recall.

*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 24-Oct-2020 20:53:29
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5794
From: Unknown

@bison

we do not know what Cloanto will do when they have won the lawsuit and will not know before is finally decided. There is no real roadmap from Hyperion either (except the unfilled promises regarding 4.2 including SMP and 64bit).

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rob 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 24-Oct-2020 21:55:52
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5954
From: S.Wales

@OlafS25

Quote:
There is no real roadmap from Hyperion either (except the unfilled promises regarding 4.2 including SMP and 64bit).


Do you have a source for the promises Of 64-bit support. I have not seen this before.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rob 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 24-Oct-2020 22:03:33
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5954
From: S.Wales

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Cloanto does not have roadmap, he has no clue.


At the moment they a restricted to what the amiga Forever license allows and what Amiga Inc were able to do while respecting the 2009 settlement agreement. Since they are suing Hyperion for an alleged breach of the agreement it certainly wouldn't make sense to breach it themselves.

It makes no sense for them to release any kind of roadmap until this matter is settled. Regardles of this neither company has any obligations to release a roadmap since they are both privately owned.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 24-Oct-2020 23:04:11
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 843
From: Kansas

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
Thomas Richter is very special, I do not know if he would be interested to work for Cloanto. But that can only answer Thomas R. at that time


ThoR and Olsen are both special and make the core of a good development team. It would be a sad day in Amiga land to lose either of these invaluable developers.

Quote:

Additional there are legal problems. As far as I know they used 4.X sources and improved and integrated them. Nevertheless those sources are owned by Hyperion. So the problem would be that then there are 3 parties involved. I do not know what in this situation would happen. In a sane world all would come to a agreement because of the chance to earn money but who knows.


Michele has recognized Hyperion's rights for the code they have written but Hyperion has not recognized the rights of (the new) Amiga Corporation which owns (or will own) the Amiga IP and C= source code. Most of the Hyperion 68k AmigaOS release is still a compile of the C= source code.

Quote:

Cloanto also said they would open source 3.1 and Thomas R. said he is only interested in something closed.


ThoR does *not* want the AmigaOS falling into fork hell like Linux. There should be one organized official AmigaOS development effort. The source can be open with restrictions which would discourage publicly distributed forks and encourage contributions. Open code is important for proliferation in some markets. For example, availability of source code is the most important factor for choosing an OS in the EETimes embedded survey for 2017 and 2019.

Amiga hardware would likewise have a better chance as a few official organized efforts with the Amiga name. We need a sustainable roadmap and business model that will not tarnish the Amiga name. Simply putting a label on a Raspberry Pi with UAE or a cheap Amiga FPGA project is only a short term nostalgia fix. Trying to enter the desktop market with the Amiga is also very difficult as can be seen with the broken Hyperion business model. Maybe Michele just wants to sell Amiga ROMs forever as retirement income but then why would he be paying to put the pieces of Amiga back together again? I expect he would choose to make Amiga great again over a little retirement income. It is obvious that he is passionate about the Amiga. I really don't understand who wouldn't welcome change for the Amiga at this point.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 24-Oct-2020 23:26:13
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1713
From: N-Space

@matthey

Quote:
ThoR does *not* want the AmigaOS falling into fork hell like Linux.

That's a bit hyperbolic! There are some Linux forks: Android, which has not yet been completely merged back into the mainstream kernel is one. But it's certainly not fork hell.

Last edited by bison on 24-Oct-2020 at 11:27 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 25-Oct-2020 3:18:44
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 843
From: Kansas

Quote:

bison wrote:
That's a bit hyperbolic! There are some Linux forks: Android, which has not yet been completely merged back into the mainstream kernel is one. But it's certainly not fork hell.


What is the standard flavor of Linux so I can download the correct binary for my Linux computer?

Why does less than 2% of the desktop market use Linux when it is free while Windows and OS X are not?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DiscreetFX 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 25-Oct-2020 5:37:53
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1916
From: Chicago, IL

@matthey

If you count Android which you should since its Linux, then Linux is the most popular OS in the world. Deep in is a really nice version of Desktop Linux if you want to give it a try.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cdimauro 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 25-Oct-2020 5:53:00
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@Rob Quote:

Rob wrote:
@OlafS25
Quote:
There is no real roadmap from Hyperion either (except the unfilled promises regarding 4.2 including SMP and 64bit).


Do you have a source for the promises Of 64-bit support. I have not seen this before.

They talked several times about 64-bit with AmigaOS4.2, but at least here's something on their blog:

https://blog.hyperion-entertainment.com/happy-easter/
64 bit address space awareness

It's interesting to notice other features:
separate address spaces
Gallium

@matthey Quote:

matthey wrote:
Quote:
bison wrote:
That's a bit hyperbolic! There are some Linux forks: Android, which has not yet been completely merged back into the mainstream kernel is one. But it's certainly not fork hell.


What is the standard flavor of Linux so I can download the correct binary for my Linux computer?

Why does less than 2% of the desktop market use Linux when it is free while Windows and OS X are not?

*

@DiscreetFX Quote:

DiscreetFX wrote:
@matthey

If you count Android which you should since its Linux, then Linux is the most popular OS in the world. Deep in is a really nice version of Desktop Linux if you want to give it a try.

Let's say that I'm a newbie, never saw/known Linux before, and I want to try it: please can you tell where I can download it?

Last edited by cdimauro on 25-Oct-2020 at 05:54 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 25-Oct-2020 15:15:06
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1713
From: N-Space

@matthey

Now you're just trolling!

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 25-Oct-2020 15:18:20
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1713
From: N-Space

@cdimauro

Quote:
Let's say that I'm a newbie, never saw/known Linux before, and I want to try it: please can you tell where I can download it?

Linux Mint seems like a reasonable place to start.

Download Linux Mint 20 Ulyana

Last edited by bison on 25-Oct-2020 at 04:17 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 25-Oct-2020 20:42:11
#36 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 843
From: Kansas

Quote:

DiscreetFX wrote:
If you count Android which you should since its Linux, then Linux is the most popular OS in the world. Deep in is a really nice version of Desktop Linux if you want to give it a try.


Why should I count Android? This is an Amiga site and the embedded market is not an Amiga target. The Amiga only targets old embedded hardware for the desktop.

The AmigaOS is more responsive and has a smaller footprint than Android on low end hardware which is important for the embedded market. AmigaOS 4 is older than Android and could have been used. Instead we have AmigaNowhere with practically no market share anywhere. What happened? Has the business model that brought us here changed? How many more decades will it take to realize the world rarely changes to make a broken business model work?

Quote:

bison wrote:
Linux Mint seems like a reasonable place to start.

Download Linux Mint 20 Ulyana


I have Linux Mint on a backup computer. It's not as fun or friendly as an Amiga but at least it has a modern browser.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cdimauro 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 25-Oct-2020 20:50:05
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@bison Quote:

bison wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
Let's say that I'm a newbie, never saw/known Linux before, and I want to try it: please can you tell where I can download it?

Linux Mint seems like a reasonable place to start.

Download Linux Mint 20 Ulyana

"Seems"? For you, right?

I'm not trolling, but I'm trying to make people understand the difference between Linux and the others consumer (so, quite well known) o.ses. if I want to use Windows or MacOS X, you have ONE version of them. If you want to use Linux... enjoy trying to figure out which distro to use.

And as usual, a Linux user will tell something based on HIS personal experience. Mint for you, Ubuntu for another one, Kubuntu, OpenSuse, Fedora, Debian, etc. etc. etc.. One of my colleagues, which is a Debian maintainer, told me to use... Ubuntu (talking about a "lightweight" distro to use on the first MacBook Air).

What's certainly true in the Linux world is that once you have some issue with the distro that you chose (either by searching yourself or because a friend/cousin/whoever told it) and you ask for help, you'll be blamed because your distro is the wrong one and you should have used another one which the "right" one...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 25-Oct-2020 23:10:01
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1713
From: N-Space

@cdimauro

Quote:
If you want to use Linux... enjoy trying to figure out which distro to use.

I don't think it's too much of a problem for most people. It's nice to have choices.

It's like buying a car. I recently had to decide between a Honda, a Mazda and a Volkswagen. I'm glad I had the choice, instead of "you're going to drive a Ford, and you're going to like it."

Last edited by bison on 25-Oct-2020 at 11:11 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cdimauro 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 26-Oct-2020 5:32:43
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@bison Quote:

bison wrote:
@cdimauro Quote:
If you want to use Linux... enjoy trying to figure out which distro to use.

I don't think it's too much of a problem for most people. It's nice to have choices.

It's like buying a car. I recently had to decide between a Honda, a Mazda and a Volkswagen. I'm glad I had the choice, instead of "you're going to drive a Ford, and you're going to like it."

The right comparison would be that you have to decide between a Ford, Honda, Mazda, and a Volkswagen. The first three offer one, two, and three models, whereas the last one offers a thousand (literally) of them...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: New message on amiga.com
Posted on 26-Oct-2020 9:44:51
#40 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1559
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

https://www.kernel.org

https://github.com/torvalds/linux

(And if you wish to display your ignorance about how workflows are done with git by pointing at the thousand of forks of the repo on github, then go ahead)

Oh - the sources above also build and run on real Amiga hardware.

Last edited by kolla on 26-Oct-2020 at 10:04 AM.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle