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      /  What is happening with MUI?
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Hitman 
What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 6:23:57
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jul-2005
Posts: 99
From: Berlin, Germany

Hello all.

I have been setting up my Vampire and needed to install MUI. The "newest" version I could find is 3.8 on Aminet from 1997 (!). I tried to run a program that needs MUI3.9 and it wouldn't run, but the MUIDev.de site seems to be in a broken state at the moment so I can't download it. It's been like this for a while.

https://github.com/amiga-mui/muidev

Anyone know anything about it and where I can get MUI 3.9?

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 7:21:33
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2298
From: Minnesota, USA

@Hitman

You could try a nightly build.

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LarsB 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 13:05:52
#3 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2019
Posts: 99
From: Unknown

@Hitman Hm,.. I thought they are meanwhile at version 5.x

And its one thing to download it and another to get they keyfile.

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Hitman 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 26-Apr-2021 7:52:33
#4 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jul-2005
Posts: 99
From: Berlin, Germany

I have a key file that I bought way back in the 1990's. I just need to find a 3.9 archive to download. I'd prefer to avoid MUI 5.0 as I read a big thread somewhere where there was a lot of talk of it being slow.

TBH 3.8 is fine for me, but there is just one program that requires 3.9 that I'd like to run.

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Kotler 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 8:01:02
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 27-May-2005
Posts: 255
From: Sweden


It would be great if the downloads would come back online.
At least for MUI 3.9... Anyone have these?

I checked out the nightly MUI 5.0 for 68k, the files are absolutely HUGE!
muimaster.library is 13MB while the old 3.8 library is about 150 kB.
The rest of the files are also really big. I'm not sure why that is,
debug code? Anyway, I don't think I could start it, even.

Regards
Kotler

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amigang 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 11:23:56
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1646
From: Cheshire, England

You likely better off asking at English Amiga Board. They have a pretty good FTP sever that hold some stuff I was not able to find any where else.
http://eab.abime.net/forumdisplay.php?f=12

Amikit come with I belive a specail version of MUI you could ask the dev of that to provide you with it, or a long way round you could download Amikit X free off there site that I think come with MUI 5.

Last edited by amigang on 27-Apr-2021 at 12:39 PM.

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monstercoder 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 12:53:17
#7 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2017
Posts: 68
From: Unknown

@Hitman

MUI5 is developed for fast PPC amigas with many heavy features that might feel unresponsive on old amigas.
The vampire is AmigaNGNG, so it's even faster than that ppc crap and runs MUI5 just fine.

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samo79 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 21:43:47
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3437
From: Italy, Perugia

@monstercoder

Vampires will hardly achieves the performance of a Sam440ep ..

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monstercoder 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 9:30:01
#9 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2017
Posts: 68
From: Unknown

@samo79

That is not true.

The vampire beats the sam very easy.

http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=9195&order=&x=0&z=tnLUkr

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jPV 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 10:59:33
#10 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Apr-2005
Posts: 733
From: .fi

@monstercoder

Beats in this arbitrary test that compares 68k emulation speed of the systems, not the speed of the native code. And compares only one selected value of the whole test. This has nothing to do with the real world performance.

If you don't know, there's a PPC native MUI on these PPC systems, so this test doesn't tell anything about the speed MUI works.

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monstercoder 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 11:29:41
#11 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2017
Posts: 68
From: Unknown

@jPV

The thread is quite old by now and the vampire is even faster by now but you really should read all posts from BigGun and maybe then you will figure out that it's time to scrap that crapple computer :)

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kolla 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 13:52:14
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1805
From: Trondheim, Norway

@monstercoder

I have both Vampire cards and SAM440... guess what.

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LarsB 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 14:03:32
#13 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2019
Posts: 99
From: Unknown

@kolla Dont torture me :) Whats faster? :)

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jPV 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 17:21:41
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Apr-2005
Posts: 733
From: .fi

@monstercoder

No matter how fast Vampire would be, it's still missing updated OS and software, and that should be fixed to get me interested.

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pavlor 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 17:57:08
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9247
From: Unknown

@monstercoder

Benchmarks you linked show great memory performance, but they say nothing about speed in applications demanding raw CPU power (eg. emulators, 3D games).

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Hitman 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 20:59:04
#16 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jul-2005
Posts: 99
From: Berlin, Germany

@monstercoder

I shouldn't get sucked into this pointless discussion, but I must say that I have a Vampire 4 SA and sitting next to it on the desk is a 20 year old AmigaOne with 800 mhz G3. And the AmigaOne absolutely kills the Vampire performance wise.

I didn't buy the Vampire for performance. I bought it for the SAGA chipset and because I wanted a new Amiga.

Both systems are very nice and each have their pros and cons. I will get a Tabor board if and when it comes out so that I can enjoy both OS3 and OS4 on new systems.

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kolla 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 29-Apr-2021 8:22:24
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1805
From: Trondheim, Norway

@monstercoder

Quote:
you really should read all posts from BigGun and maybe then you will figure out that it's time to scrap that crapple computer


You may also come to quite different conclusions. There are very good reasons for why so many developers, both hardware and software developers, have left the Apollo team over time, or simply have stated that they will never ever get involved or simply prefer to ignore the whole project.

And now they hope the Raptor for A1200 will attract demo sceners... I doubt it, all the Vampire products are for "consumers", not for people who wish to push the limits of Amiga hardware.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 29-Apr-2021 19:00:05
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11858
From: Norway

@monstercoder

This is maybe something you should look at before you draw any conclusions.

"SAM440 - R9250 vs HD 7750 benchmarks"

https://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8510&forum=4

Something to consider, the EUAE emulation on PowerPC system uses old UAE core, the emulation is only running on one CPU core, the emulation does not offload work to the GPU.

A GPU shaders should be able to do the planar to chunky emulation, the CPU load drawing video output using CPU is substantial, is actually affecting the scores more then you know. Because every single Amiga chip has to be emulated on one single CPU core. The cooper emulation can possibly be move to GPU as well. The blitter should be multithreaded, as thats something that should happen in parallel to 680x0, not in serial, like UAE does it in AmigaOS4.1 version, I know that part is being rewritten in WinUAE, not sure if its done as I like it to be done, but allowing the blitter emulation to work in parallel to 680x0 emulation will help.

Anyway none of actual 680x0 programs or games actually need more speed on X1000, or X5000, older AmigaONE-G3/G4 are able emulate most at full speed, while its possible to get more out of the hardware, its really up to the people with the slowest hardware that has most to gain from optimizing it more, and its possible as I explained.

Again emulation is unprecise thing because its only as good as implantation of the emulation.

Another thing you need to understand about UAE CPU emulation is how it treats different memory pages, etch memory page in UAE, has a table that contains a function pointer to some routine that is used to write into the memory page, and one function pointer that is used to read from that memory page, this functions pointer is different, for example the custom memory space $DFF000 has its own routines that are used to handle the emulation of custom chips. The zorro space is own routines and so on, so on write or read different actions are triggered. All branches are costly on any CPU, and all extra work having to jump threw hoops to do what expect is costly. Of course, 680x0 CPU flags for Zero, Negative, Overflow etc. are emulated, as well as all 680x0 CPU registers, D0-D7/A0-A7. When you consider that PowerPC is doing 20 times the work to do the same the PowerPC is not that slow.

The FPGA used in vampire, is not doing the same, thing, FPGA is designed to simulate real hardware by establish physical connection in a grid, that connects different logical gates and lots, this provides a way to construct new hardware, or reconstruct old hardware by physical connections, throw arrays of transistor gates. The technique is unique to design of the FPGA chip, that was designed for this.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 29-Apr-2021 at 08:35 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 29-Apr-2021 at 08:17 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 29-Apr-2021 at 07:57 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 29-Apr-2021 at 07:19 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 29-Apr-2021 at 07:16 PM.

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simplex 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 29-Apr-2021 21:03:36
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@Hitman

Personally I'm grateful you got involved. Real-world performance is of interest. Benchmarks, useful as they can be, are still not real-world.

Out of curiosity, did your MUI situation get resolved?

Last edited by simplex on 29-Apr-2021 at 09:04 PM.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: What is happening with MUI?
Posted on 30-Apr-2021 12:06:12
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2298
From: Minnesota, USA

@simplex

http://muidev.de goes straight to the GitHub page. It has no release builds anywhere.

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