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Trekiej
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Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 20-May-2021 18:19:36
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| I was wondering how many would like to see AOS 4.X ported to Raspberry PI. _________________ John 3:16 |
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matthey
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 20-May-2021 19:23:32
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Super Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2007 Posts: 1968
From: Kansas | | |
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| AmigaOS 4.x 99€ (old price reflecting true development cost according to AmigaKit) P96 10€ (since P96 is only licensed for PPC) Enhancer Software Plus with 3D driver 57.45€ (Hyperion no longer develops 3D drivers) RoadShow 25€ (no TCP/IP stack in AmigaOS 3.2 so assuming license was only for PPC also) --------------------- Total: 191.45€ ($233.93 U.S.)
Amiga users would probably be excited to pay nearly 7 times the price of the $35 U.S. hardware for an AmigaOS which doesn't support SMP or 64 bit and has practically no natively running software on ARM. The Amiga used to be about value and efficiency.
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Trekiej
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 20-May-2021 19:29:41
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| @matthey
Thanks, cool reflection. _________________ John 3:16 |
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OldAmigan
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 20-May-2021 19:38:05
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Cult Member |
Joined: 25-Dec-2003 Posts: 681
From: Dumfries, Scotland | | |
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| @Trekiej
I'd love to see it on the Pi but what matthey said certainly is a sobering thought _________________ Fred Booth ======================================== A500, A600, A1200 c/w Mediator and 030 AmigaOne and OS4.1 Mac LCII, G4 Powermac running OSX + Amigakit and MorphOS 3.0 Dell Mini 10 Netbook running IcAros and AmigaForever+Amikit+AmigaSys 2006 Macb |
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bison
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 20-May-2021 20:19:56
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Elite Member |
Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
From: N-Space | | |
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| @Trekiej
0 to 50, but... I'd rather have it hosted on Linux so I can run a modern web browser on the same desktop.
Last edited by bison on 20-May-2021 at 08:20 PM.
_________________ "Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner |
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Trekiej
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 20-May-2021 20:24:29
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| @matthey
Looks like we could use an investor. _________________ John 3:16 |
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g01df1sh
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 20-May-2021 22:28:47
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Super Member |
Joined: 16-Apr-2009 Posts: 1777
From: UK | | |
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| I would like to see it on Arm but not pi. I want a real mini itx board with normal power supply options and space for expansion.
_________________ A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr Elbox empty Power Tower RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC Wii with Amiga emulation Vampire v4 SA |
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Trekiej
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 21-May-2021 4:02:23
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Trekiej
I think it is honorable that folks are taking this more serious and not fighting. Maybe AOS3.2 news is new sedative. _________________ John 3:16 |
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outrun1978
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 21-May-2021 5:30:48
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Cult Member |
Joined: 22-Feb-2015 Posts: 596
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Trekiej
Someone should just do it. There is clear money to be made in a port of Amiga OS 4 to a Raspberry Pi 4/400.
_________________ Amigaone X5000/20 4GB Radeon RX 550 Polaris 12 AmigaOS4.1 Final Edition Update 1 Amiga 1200 Workbench 3.1.4 Amiga CD32 |
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BigD
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 21-May-2021 8:00:47
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7307
From: UK | | |
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| @outrun1978
RiscOS is on the Pi already. What would AmigaOS bring to the party that RiscOS doesn’t already? _________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 21-May-2021 8:12:28
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Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12796
From: Norway | | |
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| @Trekiej
“I think it is honorable that folks are taking this more serious”
Only because you did not ask if this can be done, from technical point, is likely to be done, or going to be done, this time you did not demand someone to do it.
I simply answer the question, as if Hyperion has already done it, despite all technical challenges, despite having to push SMP and 64BIT support to the side, or having to stop the work on supporting upcoming PowerPC solution, etc. because that is what it will take, it require complete refocus of all development efforts. It will halt any progress on more technical important features, it also require a agreement with Trever about it, as he owns the kernel now.
So far they earn 1.850,- USD, if all the people who says they are going buy it, are buying it, if it was available.
How many developers will they be able get to work full time for that money Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-May-2021 at 12:35 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-May-2021 at 08:48 AM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-May-2021 at 08:17 AM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-May-2021 at 08:15 AM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-May-2021 at 08:14 AM.
_________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
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OlafS25
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 21-May-2021 11:11:02
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6321
From: Unknown | | |
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| @NutsAboutAmiga
You mean progress even more slowly than now?
There are no resources for any ISA change and you are right... first AOS should fully support the hardware that is available and already supported. But even that is not very propable except there is a big investor with millions of dollars |
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outrun1978
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 21-May-2021 11:58:10
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Cult Member |
Joined: 22-Feb-2015 Posts: 596
From: Unknown | | |
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| @BigD
RiscOS isn't most people's cup of tea and it certainly isn't mine. Besides AmigaOS on Raspberry Pi would mean that you finally get your hands on a Next Gen machine.
The answer should be obvious to anyone serious about making money from Amiga related items. cheap accessible hardware = more users = more licences sold = more software = more interest = more people brought on board... _________________ Amigaone X5000/20 4GB Radeon RX 550 Polaris 12 AmigaOS4.1 Final Edition Update 1 Amiga 1200 Workbench 3.1.4 Amiga CD32 |
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BigD
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 21-May-2021 12:07:17
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7307
From: UK | | |
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| @outrun1978
The way I see it is that AmigaOS 4.x is technically sold at a loss at the moment, it's just that the developers don't often accept payment from Hyperion so they have no problem selling at such a low value! All modern-ish features come from Enhancer. The ONLY room for profit is therefore from the hardware and extra software not from the OS itself (mirrored in the mainstream where all major OSes are now free).
The Raspberry Pi ISA change would cost a lot of money and take away the ability for A-EON to make a profit other than joint AmigaKit software projects like the Amistore! While great for the users I don't think RISC OS on the Pi led to anyone getting rich and neither will an AmigaOS port. Expensive hardware dongles ARE the AmigaOS way! If you can't cope with that then use AROS or AmigaOS classic (i.e. Workbench as we used to call it)! _________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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pavlor
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 21-May-2021 14:38:44
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9578
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| @Trekiej
Improving PPC emulation in WinUAE would make far more sense than port to another CPU architecture. |
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Trekiej
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 21-May-2021 16:02:21
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Trekiej
I wonder if a quick fix would be Amiga OS 4.X on WinUAE with full acceleration.
edit:
of FS-UAE, or qemu. Last edited by Trekiej on 21-May-2021 at 05:12 PM.
_________________ John 3:16 |
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hth313
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 21-May-2021 16:48:39
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Regular Member |
Joined: 29-May-2018 Posts: 159
From: Delta, Canada | | |
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| @BigD
Is Windows free now? Last time I checked they wanted money for it, maybe you do not regarded a mainstream major OS. |
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matthey
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 21-May-2021 22:07:15
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Super Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2007 Posts: 1968
From: Kansas | | |
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| BigD Quote:
RiscOS is on the Pi already. What would AmigaOS bring to the party that RiscOS doesn’t already? |
Preemptive Multitasking more software especially games (no 26 bit addressing incompatibility) smaller memory footprint
RISC OS review Quote:
So many good things I could say about this but they are outweighed by the bad ones.
* Way faster than Linux every Linux on cheap hardware like a Pi Zero and uses far fewer resources.
* Entire OS with GUI fits in a TWO gigabyte SD card and boots in just seconds.
* Will smoke Linux+GUI on a Pi Zero at pretty much everything.
Major cons:
* Has all of the flaws of old software with none of the charm.
* The GUI looks like it belongs in the early-mid 90s.
* Only runs in a single process on a single core. Your multi-core ARM won't be any faster than a single, everything else being equal but Amdahl's law applies.
* Single thread, cooperative multi-tasking means a single stuck process or something waiting for input can bring it to its knees.
* Plings are (a) still called plings and (b) they're visible in the GUI in much the same way as .exe, .com, .bat were in very early versions of Windows.
* Very few developers. A real shame as this could and should have been used for those uber-cheap OLPC devices as it's way faster than Linux on cheap hardware and uses far fewer resources.
* Best suited to boards like the Rpi Zero or Zero W but doesn't support the WiFi and I was unable to find any USB Ethernet adaptors that work (although presumably something does for the Pi 2/3 to work.
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https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=risc
This may be an embedded developer evaluating RISC OS for the Pi Zero (most normal users would pay for a full Pi). The reviewer was impressed by the lightweight features on low end hardware but there were more drawbacks than the AmigaOS. There is now a cut down RISC OS Pico for even lower end hardware than the Pi Zero which is the new Pi Pico.
The Amiga 1000 had 256kiB of memory and 256kiB of WCS (pre-ROM) in 1985. The most minimal RISC OS hardware was the Archimedes A305 with 512kiB of memory and 512kiB of ROM introduced in 1987. Modern versions of RISC OS use a 4MiB Flash (post-ROM) while I couldn't find any minimum memory requirement. AmigaOS 3.2 68k uses a 512kiB kickstart (ROM or flash) and requires 2MiB of memory likely without much effort to reduced the footprint. Most of the modules are likely still compiled for the 68000 instead of 68020 even though most are run on 68020 capable systems. Compilers for the 68k were barely better than average at best and code generation quality has deteriorated in most compilers which still support the 68k. It looks like the AmigaOS 68k footprint is smaller than that of RISC OS using ARM but this may not be the case of AmigaOS using ARM although it would almost certainly be better than most Linux distributions.
Quote:
The way I see it is that AmigaOS 4.x is technically sold at a loss at the moment, it's just that the developers don't often accept payment from Hyperion so they have no problem selling at such a low value! All modern-ish features come from Enhancer. The ONLY room for profit is therefore from the hardware and extra software not from the OS itself (mirrored in the mainstream where all major OSes are now free).
The Raspberry Pi ISA change would cost a lot of money and take away the ability for A-EON to make a profit other than joint AmigaKit software projects like the Amistore! While great for the users I don't think RISC OS on the Pi led to anyone getting rich and neither will an AmigaOS port. Expensive hardware dongles ARE the AmigaOS way! If you can't cope with that then use AROS or AmigaOS classic (i.e. Workbench as we used to call it)! |
Both the AmigaOS and hardware together need to be competitive on features and price in some market for Amiga to proliferate. "Expensive hardware dongles" are not the answer. Costs for developing an OS can be spread out but this requires volume sales which are highly unlikely on hardware which the OS does not come on. Think how much OS development could be funded with just 5% of the sales of 1,000,000 Pis per year ($35x.05x1,000,000=$1,750,000) compared to 50% of the AmigaOS sale price for 1000 AmigaOnes per year ($120x.50x1000=$60,000). Good luck getting users to change the OS of their hardware in mass especially with noncompetitive features. The way to do it is to go where the AmigaOS is more competitive (small footprint hardware) and make mass produced custom hardware which includes the AmigaOS. Of course this would require investment and cooperation unheard of in Amiga circles.
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cdimauro
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 22-May-2021 9:20:51
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Oct-2012 Posts: 3621
From: Germany | | |
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| @BigD Quote:
BigD wrote: @outrun1978
The Raspberry Pi ISA change would cost a lot of money and take away the ability for A-EON to make a profit other than joint AmigaKit software projects like the Amistore! While great for the users I don't think RISC OS on the Pi led to anyone getting rich and neither will an AmigaOS port. Expensive hardware dongles ARE the AmigaOS way! |
I think differently. An Amiga-/like o.s port to a RPi can led not only to profits, but a great increasing of the Amiga base & support.
The Amiga o.s. wins hands down against RISC OS: there's no competition at all. See what Matt has written. Quote:
If you can't cope with that then use AROS or AmigaOS classic (i.e. Workbench as we used to call it)! |
And that's another true thing: the port to RPi was a great missed opportunity for AROS.
@pavlor Quote:
pavlor wrote: @Trekiej
Improving PPC emulation in WinUAE would make far more sense than port to another CPU architecture. |
Better to improve QEMU, instead. OS4 and MorphOS already run on the pure QEMU, without the burden of the Amiga custom chips emulation. |
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pavlor
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Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll Posted on 22-May-2021 9:46:16
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9578
From: Unknown | | |
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| @cdimauro
Quote:
Better to improve QEMU, instead. OS4 and MorphOS already run on the pure QEMU, without the burden of the Amiga custom chips emulation. |
In theory, yes. However, from end user POV WinUAE is far more mature for OS4. That being said, improving PowerPC CPU emulation speed (QEMU) would certainly help. |
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