Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6071 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
62 crawler(s) on-line.
 25 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 Mobileconnect:  28 mins ago
 Rob:  33 mins ago
 AndreasM:  33 mins ago
 Derfs:  57 mins ago
 BigD:  1 hr ago
 OlafS25:  1 hr 8 mins ago
 Frank:  1 hr 10 mins ago
 ppcamiga1:  1 hr 12 mins ago
 kamelito:  1 hr 31 mins ago
 pavlor:  1 hr 36 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 )
PosterThread
amigadave 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 20-Sep-2021 8:56:38
#81 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1724
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@bhabbott

I don't really want to promote further discussion about COVID-19 on these forums, but I have to say that you've nailed it when describing the idiots in the US who are more concerned about their "Freedumbs", and the corrupt and/or fanatically stupid and religious politicians that those people elect and support in the US government.

Can you please give me a part time job so I can emigrate to New Zealand and live among sane people? My retirement pension will take care of my living expenses, I just need a job to allow me to live there, even if it is only for half of the year due to US, or New Zealand restrictions, I'd be happy to be there for at least part of the year. New Zealand is the most beautiful country I have ever visited, and the people were very friendly.

If I new how to program for the NG Amigas, maybe I could get a minimum wage job with Trevor at A-Eon, but I expect AmigaOS4 development to implode at any moment, unless Trevor and friends can somehow obtain enough of the rest of the assets to make Hyperion completely unnecessary, which is unlikely. Too bad Trevor won't switch to supporting MorphOS at the same level he supports OS4, it would make his life so much less problematic. I pity anyone who is dependent on Hyperion for anything.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TRIPOS 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 20-Sep-2021 16:27:54
#82 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@bhabbott

Quote:

bhabbott wrote:

Aukland is currently in level 4 lockdown and the rest of New Zealand is in level 2 as we try to eliminate Delta virus


I’m sorry, but there is no “eliminating Covid”, can’t be done, it’s here to stay so we need to learn how to live with it just like we are living with the influenza virus. Vaccines helps protecting us from serious illness and it slows down the virus spread. But it’s not fail safe, far from it. And neither is “natural antibodies”. I have several friends who has had covid 2 times and one person I know has had it 3 times. I also know several who is fully vaccinated with Pfizer but still got the infection anyway. But the antibodies probably protected them from serious illness. So until a population reaches some 80% plus of fully vaccinated people, some restrictions on social interaction may be a good idea (maybe not lockdowns though). But after that, not so much. With a mindset of “trying to eliminate covid” you are bound to either having a life of endless lockdowns or George Orwell style of government Big Brother control and monitoring over each and every citizen, like the route China is taking. Because the virus won’t disappear from the world.

Speaking of the Flu (which BTW is a far more deadly virus), don’t forget taking your vaccine for that this year. Last year there was no outbreak to speak of, so there is very little protection from antibodies in the population now. The flu will spread like wildfire in dry lands.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rob 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 20-Sep-2021 17:38:53
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6079
From: S.Wales

On the subject of viruses. The latest release of VirusZ also supports MorphOS, AROS and OS4.

http://aminet.net/package/util/virus/VirusZ.lha

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 20-Sep-2021 23:55:45
#84 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1230
From: Kansas

bhabbott Quote:

The Raspberry Pi wasn't designed for retro appeal, but to provide an affordable alternative to embedded PCs. Predictably it is now being used as an Arduino replacement in applications it is poorly suited to. So while it was originally intended to be a lightweight platform for doing PC stuff without the bloat, it is now bloating the hobbyist embedded scene.


My impression of the primary goal of the Raspberry Pi Foundation was education.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/ Quote:

The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a UK-based charity that works to put the power of computing and digital making into the hands of people all over the world. We do this so that more people are able to harness the power of computing and digital technologies for work, to solve problems that matter to them, and to express themselves creatively.

We engage millions of young people in learning computing and digital making skills through a thriving network of clubs and events, and through partnerships with youth organisations. We enable any school to offer students the opportunity to study computing and computer science through providing the best possible curriculum, resources, and training for teachers. We work to deepen our understanding of how young people learn about computing and digital making, and to use that knowledge to increase the impact of our own work and to advance the field of computing education. We make computing and digital making accessible to all through providing low-cost, high-performance single-board computers and free software.


Nowhere is embedded mentioned on the Raspberry Pi Foundation website about page but their management is smart so I can believe they were aware of the impact pushing the envelope of low priced hardware would have on the embedded market. I agree cheap or free software and hardware often displaces more suitable products, including for embedded systems. Linux has killed the competition but it is near the limit of how small of a footprint it can have and is still not as responsive as an OS which was designed to be responsive from the beginning. This leaves room for AmigaOS on cheap 68k hardware to have appeal for embedded systems. The 68k and ColdFire were once popular in the embedded space which improves the chances of re-adoption.

bhabbott Quote:

Surprisingly one of the better uses for a Pi is to add advanced hardware features such HDMI or a faster (emulated) CPU to classic Amigas, as enough information is now available to program it 'bare metal'. Without the bloat of Linux and Python etc. it can really fly! (though heat can be a problem).


As I have stated before, emulation loses the embedded market entirely. Emulation on a Raspberry Pi gives a Raspberry Pi product which is dependent on the Raspberry Pi Foundation. What virtual/emulated processor and OS on a host system have created a healthy and proliferating platform?

bhabbott Quote:

Accelerators as such no, but PPC certainly did. Nothing alienates users faster than telling them their hardware is fundamentally incompatible with your software.


An Amiga ASIC 68k SoC could also be used for cheap and powerful accelerators for the old Amigas. This would be similar to Vampire accelerators except significantly more powerful and cheaper. Would such accelerators alienate Amiga users because of too high of performance or not because they are an accelerator?

bhabbott Quote:

There are no emulated real Amigas that can run semi-modern browsers (I don't class NG as Amiga). You can emulate an Amiga on a PC with UAE, but the experience is not the same (I find it quite frustrating compared to a real Amiga). UAE is good for cross development, but not so much for general use.


In my experience, UAE Amiga emulation provides a more usable semi-modern browser experience than my CSMK3 68060@75MHz which I am sad to admit. On high end x86-64 hardware, it may provide a more usable browser experience than most so called PPC Amiga hardware. Browser quality is still lacking but that is due to other factors (lack of competitive hardware and small user base) rather than lack of CPU performance.

bhabbott Quote:

There's only one browser suitable for real Amigas and that's IBrowse, which is not 'semi-modern' apart from working with the latest TLS encryption. But IBrowse works well on classic Amiga systems that were popular in the '90's (as was IBrowse itself). This is the kind of support I want to see more of - producing affordable software (and hardware) that can be used on retro machines without losing their character. IMO the Vampire is the highest we should need to go, being only a little more powerful than a system with 060 and RTG that someone might have had 'back in the day'.


Sorry, "IBrowse as the only one brower suitable for real Amigas" seems narrow minded to me.

bhabbott Quote:

One thing I consider very important is allowing users of lower powered Amigas to experience recent Amiga developments such as IBrowse. An A1200 with 4MB FastRAM and a small hard drive runs it fine, just slower than my 50MHz 030. The idea is to not exclude low-end users just because you have decreed that they wont like the experience.


And the performance limit for Amigas seems completely arbitrary especially with how cheap a modern 1GHz 68k ASIC could be produced.

bhabbott Quote:

I am active in several discussion groups that are accessible with IBrowse, and not just Amiga related ones. So far they are working fine - and I hope they continue to do so! IBrowse is also usable on many other websites such as Google and Wikipedia.

In some cases the Amiga actually does it better because I don't have to put up with advertising crap and embedded videos, or just bad web design clogging up the page. Of course I can't do Internet banking on my Amiga, but that's a good thing as far as security is concerned (my PC can't do it now either, so I use my phone which is actually more convenient).


The original intention of the html standard was to allow for a completely text based browser. We have certainly gotten away from that and many website content creators have lost perspective. Even with smart phones often using lighter weight browsers, many sites continue to create content for high performance desktop computers often losing customers in the process.

bhabbott Quote:

You will alienate people who want to continue using their classic Amigas like they always have.


Perhaps a few Amiga users would be alienated but I believe many more potential customers would be attracted to performance capable of using semi-modern browsers.

bhabbott Quote:

Let's face it, if you really need a machine powerful enough for most of the Internet then you just use a modern PC. And the truth is that nothing less will be enough, But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to enjoy using your old Amiga for some of the Internet. Kudos to the IBrowse team and AmiSSL developers for making that happen!


It is convenient and a fraction of the price of x86-64 hardware to use Raspberry Pi like devices on the internet. That is all that some people need and includes much more browsing capability than IBrowse on a 68030 which you claim is all you need on the Amiga.

bhabbott Quote:

Yes, we all know about the Covid denial and antivax disinformation coming from the US. It was responsible for several clusters and a few deaths here in New Zealand. I can understand your being skeptical of authorities considering how Trump played down the danger and promoted misinformation, but I do trust my government which does listen to the science. We take every case seriously here - literally. We are a small country of 5 million with a vulnerable population, so we can't afford to have thousands of people dying or having long term illnesses.


Infection in the U.S. was already out of control before China let us know about their problem or attack. The U.S. is particularly susceptible because of international commerce and large cities (perhaps the government should mandate smaller cities?). Here, we were lied to that masks are worthless when the government was willing to sacrifice people to preserve masks for medical personnel (utilitarian ethics). Now masks are super important when it is important to stop the spread of the virus and strict mandates are required when studies indicate the effectiveness is minimal.

bhabbott Quote:

AFAIK people in New Zealand who have contracted the virus and recovered from it don't need to get vaccinated. However we know who all these people are, and we are going for 100% vaccination of the rest. We also know that people who are immune can still carry the virus, so we don't let anyone in without testing to ensure they are clean. It's the only way to keep the virus out until we are all protected.


I have to say New Zealand is being smarter that the U.S. at least. Here it appears the people with natural immunity/resistance which multiple studies indicate are most resistant to the virus are put out of work instead of working in the critical jobs to help contain the virus like nursing and care center workers for the elderly. This is controlled by the same political party who sent virus infected patients to care centers in New York and California at the beginning of the pandemic. It is this same party that claims to follow science.

bhabbott Quote:

Sure, but getting immunity 'naturally' has high risks. Even those who appear to have fully recovered often suffer long term health issues that might not surface until later in life. I am old enough to remember kids (one in my own class) who were crippled by polio, and other childhood diseases that caused heart damage etc. You don't hear about that today because vaccinations eliminated those viruses.


Yes, the virus is bad for us. The virus proteins could be viewed as poisons and the virus as parasites (obligate intracellular parasites). The vaccine proteins could also be viewed as poisons and has made many people sick and killed some people. One of the studies listed in the lawsuit I posted earlier indicates vaccine symptoms may be significantly under reported. The vaccines and boosters were rushed through approval and there was political pressure to approve them.

https://nypost.com/2021/09/01/two-senior-fda-officials-resign-over-biden-administration-booster-shot-plan/ Quote:

Two senior officials have resigned from their positions within the US Food and Drug Administration over frustrations with the Biden administration’s plans to move forward with recommending COVID-19 booster shots without their prior approval, according to a report.


This is the same political party that claims to follow the science.

The majority of people who get COVID-19 have mild symptoms, especially among younger people. I had a moderate continuous headache, moderate fatigue and mild join aches for 3-4 days requiring no medication. I had no hearing or taste loss that I could detect and no respiratory problems. Nobody in our small Thanksgiving get together was hospitalized including at least 3 people over 60 years old. I do have an uncle who was hospitalized from a different exposure and nearly died but he is much older, smoked, was a welder, is obese and is diabetic. His wife was also hospitalized and was a heavy smoker with preexisting heart problems and she too had less severe problems. My niece's boyfriend is young, fit and vaccinated and he still had a mild case of the virus. That made me curious enough to investigate research of people who have been vaccinated. In my opinion, the current vaccines leave a lot to be desired. I don't see the current vaccines stopping the spread of the virus which I expect to become like the flu. There may have been a chance to contain COVID-19 but not after it had been in the wild for months while China hid information.

bhabbott Quote:

Yeah right. You say 'Don't let emotions overrule science and do some research' but I sense a lot of emotion in your stance. Actual virologists don't agree with your interpretation of the science.


I am emotional about the injustice, ignorance and disregard for our Constitution but I don't let it overrule the science and I read the research. I am calm and in a better financial position than most of the people put out of work, many of which live pay check to pay check.

bhabbott Quote:

I'm sorry you live in a country where so many people are more concerned about their 'freedumbs' than whether they live or die. But I can understand why you would mistrust a government consisting of corrupt capitalists and religious nutcases who have managed to convince a population of useful idiots to vote against their own interests. Luckily in New Zealand we haven't suffered from much of that. We trust our government because they have proved to be trustworthy.


There is nothing dumb about freedom. World War II was not so long ago and even then the freedom of New Zealand was threatened. You were just a few island hops away from being an oppressed nation. Already people are forgetting the history. Don't believe that all the evil in the world has disappeared or that New Zealand is out of reach. COVID-19 could even have been a biological attack or at least a probing attack to test the effectiveness of a more deadly biological attack. People may say that is far fetched but an attack that takes over 6 months to detect on the nation with the most powerful military in the world is effective and there are likely several nations with the capability to produce more deadly and just as contagious of biological weapons. Such an attack could even target susceptibilities of certain groups like ethnic groups in a similar way this virus targeted the old and weak.

bhabbott Quote:

But this all a derail. Lets drop the Covid politics and stick to what we came here for - talking about what we are doing with our wonderful Amigas!


COVID-19 affects even the Amiga.

bhabbott Quote:

Tomorrow I might be feeling a bit down as my body responds to the vaccination. To keep my mind off it I will probably check out the latest posts on here and other sites using my Vampired A600, download and play some Mods while I do some 68k assembly language programming on the A1200 (running IBrowse in the background to reference development info on the web), and perhaps even play a bit of Tomb Raider running under PC-Task on the the A600 (slow, but still playable!).


I hope you recover quickly from your booster and others to follow.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 21-Sep-2021 1:17:25
#85 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1230
From: Kansas

kolla Quote:

Your credibility just hit rock bottom, congrats.


Rose Quote:

+1

Tho him quoting psychiatrist as a authority on covid vaccines goes pretty much inline with his other quotes. Confirmation bias much....


Attack the credibility of people instead of their arguments. Propaganda 101.

TRIPOS Quote:

I’m sorry, but there is no “eliminating Covid”, can’t be done, it’s here to stay so we need to learn how to live with it just like we are living with the influenza virus. Vaccines helps protecting us from serious illness and it slows down the virus spread. But it’s not fail safe, far from it. And neither is “natural antibodies”. I have several friends who has had covid 2 times and one person I know has had it 3 times. I also know several who is fully vaccinated with Pfizer but still got the infection anyway. But the antibodies probably protected them from serious illness. So until a population reaches some 80% plus of fully vaccinated people, some restrictions on social interaction may be a good idea (maybe not lockdowns though). But after that, not so much. With a mindset of “trying to eliminate covid” you are bound to either having a life of endless lockdowns or George Orwell style of government Big Brother control and monitoring over each and every citizen, like the route China is taking. Because the virus won’t disappear from the world.


This is pretty much how I feel about COVID-19 non-containment and government responses to it. Notice even that I first preferred to call natural immunity natural resistance instead. While multiple studies indicate greater protection from naturally fighting off COVID-19, in theory, it is not immunity. It is possible that the person could have their immune system weakened from other means or that a variant of the virus could adapt enough to bypass the broader protections compared to that from vaccines. None of the studies indicated anyone with natural resistance that re-caught the virus again. I have heard of sick people getting the virus multiple times (in hospitals usually) but there was no information on whether they were vaccinated. How many of the people you know who were sick from the virus multiple times had been vaccinated? How many were in hospitals when they caught it again?

TRIPOS Quote:

Speaking of the Flu (which BTW is a far more deadly virus), don’t forget taking your vaccine for that this year. Last year there was no outbreak to speak of, so there is very little protection from antibodies in the population now. The flu will spread like wildfire in dry lands.


The same precautions taken for COVID-19 have been especially effective against the flu although we are unlikely to eliminate either. Social distancing is the best tool we have to fight both. This is increasing the demand for online everything and the need for better browsers. Sadly, Amiga has little to offer.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 21-Sep-2021 10:52:08
#86 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1869
From: Trondheim, Norway

"Natural" resistance? As if there’s something unnatural about the resistance you get from vaccination? How sick you get and how attacked a population is depends on many factors - one of the most important being ammount of exposure - there’s a vast difference in having a brief encounter or two and "swimming" in it. The very fact that you have people who got infected many times and got sick even after vaccination suggest "swimming in it". The major point of stopping the spreading is to avoid mutations - the more viruses, the higher chance of mutations, this is simple evolution. The second point is to avoid that hospitals run out of resources to handle it all.

This "natural resistance" crap is hippie BS.

Last edited by kolla on 21-Sep-2021 at 10:52 AM.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 21-Sep-2021 14:44:53
#87 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1912
From: N-Space

@amigadave

Moving away from people with whom you disagree can't be done. You'd have to buy a couple hundred acres, build a cabin in the middle of it, and drive into town once a week for supplies. Not much of a life.

Last edited by bison on 21-Sep-2021 at 10:41 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 15:51:02
#88 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10308
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kolla

Quote:
What - a video?


Given I'm in lockdown and you are far away in another land yes a video would be best or some screen shots..

Quote:
D'oh. Maybe you just need to update XAD from that ancient version 10 that came with OS 3.9.


It was old. It didn't have the boing bags on it. But they don't fix Unarc so looks like I need XAD. But I don't recall needng XAD back in the day.

Quote:
It is right there, under "System" in the MUI prefs, under "Public Screen" you launch PSI using the "Call Inspector" button - like it ALWAYS was.


I looked in that section. But I didn't see anything about a screen. I read System, took a look, didn't see anything to help then gave up. I ran PSI manually, which I don't think I've done before, and saved a screen mode. Then went back into MUI settings, noticed System looked different, and clicking on "Inspector Gadget" brought up screen modes. Oh haha, yes that's very funny, I don't remember that joke but it doesn't help me setting up screen modes as after 20 years I make no link between a screen and an inspector.

Quote:
PEBCAK. At least one can rely on all MUI programs to actually have settings for screen modes etc, unlike a vast ammount of other progrmas, for which quirky work-arounds like ModePro etc are needed. You argument fires right back at you.


I expect screen mode settings to be in a settings menu. With MUI there is another layer between the program and user. Programs not supporting screen modes may be annoying but they are not meant to and there are no screen settings to locate. That's like complaining about a game needing a WHDHack to install it which is worse. In any case the MUI gadgets in the window title bar are still missing. Which is where I like to configure MUI from. And I can't full screen the window automatically.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 15:57:43
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10308
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kolla

Quote:
Why would you use a web browser for that?


So I can find out where the fies are. The latest files won't be on my USB sticks or CUCD collection.

Quote:
There are much better ways... for example you can use UHCTools


I don't see Github mentioned at first glance.

The last time I used a CLI to download was with wget in Linux recently as Firefox cannot restart a broken download like iBrowse can. All this time and Firefox is old hat for simple HTTP downloads.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rose 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 16:02:24
#90 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 935
From: Unknown

@kolla

Quote:
This "natural resistance" crap is hippie BS.


Nope, it's a suburbia Karen BS. You know Karen who's worried about chemicals and sure that vaccines cause autism. Number one on anti-vax playbook, makes you look bit less loony and like one that knows what they are talking about. Best way to really spook Karen is warning her about dangers of dihydrogen monoxide (It's everywhere!).

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 23-Sep-2021 1:41:29
#91 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1230
From: Kansas

kolla Quote:

"Natural" resistance? As if there’s something unnatural about the resistance you get from vaccination?


The human immune system has multiple ways to fight off attacks like antibodies, B cells, T cells, etc. Vaccines usually introduce an isolated portion of the attack which triggers some of the protection. The defense is natural but usually limited because of the unnatural introduction.

https://theconversation.com/how-long-does-immunity-last-after-covid-vaccination-do-we-need-booster-shots-2-immunology-experts-explain-164073 Quote:

The presence of antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 is used as an indicator of immunity, with higher levels indicating greater protection. Once antibody levels drop below a particular threshold, or vanish completely, the person is at risk of reinfection.

Initially, scientists observed people’s antibody levels rapidly decreased shortly after recovery from COVID-19.

However, more recently, we’ve seen positive signs of long-lasting immunity, with antibody-producing cells in the bone marrow identified seven to eight months following infection with COVID-19. In addition, scientists have observed evidence of memory T cells (a type of immune cells) more than six months following infection.

A study of over 9,000 recovered COVID-19 patients in the United States up to November 2020 showed a reinfection rate of only 0.7%. These findings closely align with a slightly more recent study suggesting reinfection after COVID-19 is very uncommon, at least in the short term.


Several mechanisms of protection from natural immunity are given. The large study mentioned indicates a COVID-19 natural immunity efficacy of 99.3% which is likely due to other immune system protections than indicated by antibody levels. Also note that the early concern from research for the drop in antibody levels is likely no worse than with the vaccine and likely better.

https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2021-09/kheriaty-UCalifornia-natural-immunity.pdf Quote:

11. Importantly, in such individuals who have had natural SARS-CoV-2 infections, the evidence reflects that they are less likely to again acquire, carry, and transmit the virus to another individual when compared to those vaccinated for this virus. This is evident from numerous studies, including:

a. A new Israeli study of over 6 million participants found that natural immunity from SARS-CoV-2 infection was better than vaccination immunity in reducing risk of COVID-19 reinfection, hospitalization, and severe illness. Vaccination was highly effective, with overall estimated efficacy for documented infection of 92.8%, hospitalization 94.2% and severe illness 94.4%. Similarly, the overall estimated level of protection from prior SARS-CoV-2 infection for documented infection was 94.8%,
hospitalization 94.1%, and severe illness 96.4%.22 As the study explains, “both the BNT162b2 vaccine and prior SARS-CoV-2 infection are effective against both subsequent SARS-CoV-2 infection and other COVID-19–related outcomes.”

b. Another study from Israel found that the vaccinated had 6.72 times the rate of infection as compared to those that had had COVID-19: With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID. By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection.


Initial vaccine efficacy effectiveness given for the Pfizer vaccine is 95%, Moderna vaccine 94.1% and J&J vaccine 66%. The protection is lower against variants of which there are now more than 20.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859 Quote:

In the U.S., the delta (B.1.617.2) variant is now the most common COVID-19 variant. It is nearly twice as contagious as earlier variants and might cause more severe illness.

While research suggests that COVID-19 vaccines are slightly less effective against the variants, the vaccines still appear to provide protection against severe COVID-19. For example:

Early research from the U.K. suggests that, after full vaccination, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is 88% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19. The vaccine is also 96% effective at preventing severe disease with COVID-19 caused by the delta variant.
Early research from Canada suggests that, after one dose, the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine is 72% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19 caused by the delta variant. One dose of the vaccine is also 96% effective at preventing severe disease with COVID-19 caused by the delta variant.
The Janssen/Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine is 85% effective at preventing severe disease with COVID-19 caused by the delta variant, according to data released by Johnson & Johnson.


The drop in vaccine protection happens relatively quickly.

https://theconversation.com/how-long-does-immunity-last-after-covid-vaccination-do-we-need-booster-shots-2-immunology-experts-explain-164073 Quote:

A recent preprint (a study yet to undergo peer review) found protection against the Delta variant waned within three months with both the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines.

This research from the United Kingdom showed the Pfizer vaccine was 92% effective at preventing people from developing a high viral load at 14 days after the second dose, but this dropped to 78% at 90 days. AstraZeneca was 69% effective against the same measure at 14 days, dropping to 61% after 90 days.

This study shows vaccinated people who become infected with Delta still carry high amounts of virus (viral load). Third booster doses will be important to reduce these breakthrough infections and subsequent transmission.


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02532-4 Quote:

Six months ago, Miles Davenport and his colleagues made a bold prediction. On the basis of published results from vaccine trials and other data sources, they estimated that people immunized against COVID-19 would lose approximately half of their defensive antibodies every 108 days or so. As a result, vaccines that initially offered, say, 90% protection against mild cases of disease might only be 70% effective after 6 or 7 months.

“It felt a little bit out on a limb at the time,” says Davenport, a computational immunologist at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. But on the whole, his group’s predictions have come true.


More research is needed on efficacy but the studies paint a picture. People who are vaccinated are often arrogant thinking they have more protection from getting COVID-19 than they do and like to force others to get vaccinated thinking it will stop the spread permanently. This vaccinated group is at least 1/2 and approaching 2/3 of the U.S. population. People who have had COVID-19 likely have substantial protection, more than someone who was vaccinated at the same time they contracted COVID-19 but perhaps not as much protection as someone who is freshly vaccinated when they were sick long ago. Some estimates are that 1/3 of the U.S. population has had COVID-19. Then the unvaccinated population must be the problem. Most of the elderly and vulnerable people in the U.S. have been vaccinated so this leaves mostly younger people who may be spreaders once but vaccinated people are more likely to spread COVID-19 than people who have been sick with it. Everyone is looking for a scapegoat to blame the spreading on but science explains it if not ignored. So what should be done?

https://theconversation.com/how-long-does-immunity-last-after-covid-vaccination-do-we-need-booster-shots-2-immunology-experts-explain-164073 Quote:

Other countries, such as Israel, have already begun rolling out boosters. The move to offer third doses in some high-income countries has raised ethical concerns, with many people around the world still unable to access a first or second dose.


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02532-4 Quote:

But any discussion around the need for boosters cannot be had in a vacuum. In addition to considerations of immune kinetics among the immunized, there are also issues of vaccine equity and availability to factor in. And as long as vaccinated people are staying out of hospitals and morgues, then to Katrina Lythgoe, an evolutionary epidemiologist at the University of Oxford, UK, theoretical arguments around vaccine resistance are secondary. “In my view,” she says, “apart from people who are particularly vulnerable, efforts should be directed to getting people, globally, vaccinated.”


How about we make the vaccine available to the vulnerable in the rest of the world before we force low risk people to get vaccinated by mandate? Why can't I offer the vaccine you want to jab me with against my will to someone who needs it elsewhere? Do we really believe new outbreaks won't come from poor nations and return to us? Are we ignoring both the science and the ethics?

kolla Quote:

How sick you get and how attacked a population is depends on many factors - one of the most important being amount of exposure - there’s a vast difference in having a brief encounter or two and "swimming" in it. The very fact that you have people who got infected many times and got sick even after vaccination suggest "swimming in it".


I don't know what effect the virus exposure quantity has but it would make for some good research. Perhaps a small exposure could help to build resistance without becoming sick and perhaps too much exposure over taxes the immune system and weakens it. I suspect the health of the immune system is more important than the amount of exposure though. People deficient in Vitamin D have been shown in studies to have trouble fighting off COVID-19. People who are overweight lock away their Vitamin D in fat. People who are overweight are more likely to be diabetic. COVID-19 has been especially harsh to people who are overweight and diabetic.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/coronavirus-and-vitamin-d/faq-20493088

People are so willing and have so much faith in the jab and science to save them so they can go on overeating poor quality food, avoiding the sun, keep smoking, etc. Ignore the natural goodness and rely on inferior science.

kolla Quote:

The major point of stopping the spreading is to avoid mutations - the more viruses, the higher chance of mutations, this is simple evolution.


I agree but what is your plan for stopping the spread? It looks to me like the efficacy of the current vaccines is likely not enough to stop the spread and poor countries are unlikely to reach 100% vaccination rates as the vaccines are used as boosters in rich countries.

kolla Quote:

The second point is to avoid that hospitals run out of resources to handle it all.


Yes, the vaccine is useful at reducing the hospitalization and death from COVID-19, especially among the vulnerable and elderly. I would choose to offer the vaccine to those at high risk who need it around the world rather than to force those that don't want it or need it to get it.

kolla Quote:

This "natural resistance" crap is hippie BS.


We have a ways to go before we surpass the natural God given immune system. We can create viruses like this in a laboratory but we still aren't up to par at fighting them as this pandemic shows. Even what we create is mostly from copying and using what naturally exists while we have an incomplete understanding of it. How is corrupt and learn science while ignoring the ethics working out so far?

Last edited by matthey on 23-Sep-2021 at 01:44 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 24-Sep-2021 14:36:14
#92 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1869
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

The most prominent precondition, seems to be “US citizen”.

I have spent enough time the US (not just visiting a city or two, but doing nutty things like randomly busriding, trains and hitch hiking (illegally?) across more states than I can remember) to understand why that is.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Futaura 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 26-Sep-2021 20:11:23
#93 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-May-2004
Posts: 239
From: UK

@kolla

Quote:
Have you considered supporting the Gemini protocol natively in IBrowse? :)

Yes

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle