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BigD 
Irving Gould's House
Posted on 28-Apr-2022 16:07:58
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6207
From: UK

Irving Gould bled C= dry and put very little into Amiga R&D. If you'd like to see where all those ill gotten gains went post C='s bankruptcy then check out his purpose built 1995 Bahamas residence! And to think he still could have invested some of his personal fortune in C= UK and had some semblance of a legacy! Now we all think he was a tool!

https://southernboating.com/real-estate/waterfront-property-manchester-villa-lyford-cay/

Last edited by BigD on 28-Apr-2022 at 04:12 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 28-Apr-2022 16:10:20
#2 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6207
From: UK

@Thread

There's also a full video tour!

YouTube: Irving Gould's Mansion

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robo-ant 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 28-Apr-2022 16:55:36
#3 ]
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Joined: 3-Feb-2008
Posts: 203
From: The anthill to the west of the silver maple

@BigD

I didn't watch the video, but something doesn't make sense about the article. If it was built originally in 1995, Irving Gould would not have been bringing guests down on the Pet Jet. Or did he keep the jet himself somehow? Or name a new one with that name?

It looks like a nice place, though.

Last edited by robo-ant on 28-Apr-2022 at 05:04 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 28-Apr-2022 16:55:43
#4 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2305
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@BigD

Irving hired Medhi, who achieved a "major operational turnaround" at Commodore. That's the best euphemism for "ran into the ground and asset stripped" I've ever read.

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Hypex 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 28-Apr-2022 18:17:06
#5 ]
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Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10555
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BigD

The 80's called. It's wants to know when this happening. Whose going back in time to do it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=_3eC35LoF4U

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BigD 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 28-Apr-2022 19:15:50
#6 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6207
From: UK

@Hypex

Going back in time and staging a protest outside Lyford Cay Club 'C= shareholders' meeting in 1989 might have been the last chance to stop the transfer of money into the hands of the greedy C= board members/executives. Dale Luck had the right idea but he was locked out. Maybe a protest and symbolic C64 burning on the front lawn might have got the point across?

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BigD 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 28-Apr-2022 19:24:02
#7 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6207
From: UK

@Thread



You can just imagine the cronies sipping iced tea while they voted in massive pay rises and share deals!

Since the greed started in earnest on the eve of the 90s, I think this SONG is more apt for our protest song!

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Nonefornow 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 28-Apr-2022 21:28:23
#8 ]
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Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 263
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

@BigD

And photos of the Pet Jet are here.

https://archive.org/details/PETJet9/PET_Jet9.jpg

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bison 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 28-Apr-2022 21:40:36
#9 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2053
From: N-Space

@BigD

Nice house. Good enough for a James Bond movie.

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-Sam- 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 28-Apr-2022 22:18:29
#10 ]
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Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3026
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@robo-ant

Quote:
If it was built originally in 1995, Irving Gould would not have been bringing guests down on the Pet Jet.


Yes - it does seem a bit confused as of course CBM went bust in 1994.

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BigD 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 28-Apr-2022 23:02:16
#11 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6207
From: UK

@-Sam-

Yes, considering the Lyford Cay Club; the site of the relocated 1989 C= shareholders meeting that they didn't want anyone to attend is just down the road from the mansion, it was likely built in 1985 not 1995! Maybe it was his present to himself following getting rid of Jack Tamiel's meddling influence (in retrospect the only thing that kind of made the mad working environment at C= half work).

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Hypex 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 29-Apr-2022 20:07:08
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10555
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BigD

It might have but I think it would have been more fun burning down the house!

Do-do do-do do-do do-do.

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BigD 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 29-Apr-2022 20:23:22
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6207
From: UK

@Hypex

Since the plan is now to try and get back to 1985 now either to burn the house down or buy enough shares and preferably the club itself in the Bahamas in the 4 years proceeding 1989 to influence the shareholders meeting and redivert board bonuses to R&D research; we should play 'power of love' or 'back in time' on cassette as is the custom of the era!

Maybe we could take an A1200 back and get Gould to launch it in 1989? That would be more constructive than arson!

Last edited by BigD on 29-Apr-2022 at 08:50 PM.

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bhabbott 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 30-Apr-2022 23:32:10
#14 ]
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Joined: 6-Jun-2018
Posts: 87
From: Aotearoa

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
Irving Gould bled C= dry and put very little into Amiga R&D. If you'd like to see where all those ill gotten gains went post C='s bankruptcy then check out his purpose built 1995 Bahamas residence! And to think he still could have invested some of his personal fortune in C= UK and had some semblance of a legacy! Now we all think he was a tool!
Demonize Gould as much as you like, it doesn't change the fact that without him the Amiga would not have existed. He saved Commodore from bankruptcy in 1965 and bailed them out several times after that. If he had bowed down to Tramiel the Amiga would have sunk with Atari and Commodore would have produced something like the ST - a far lesser machine.

In 1991 Commodore's revenue was over a billion dollars, but between 1992 and 1994 it dropped dramatically. That coincided with the introduction of new models, but it wasn't reason for Commodore's demise. The Amiga (like all other real 'home' computers) never gained the traction it needed to compete against PCs - and realistically never could have. Gould could have forgone his $1.75 million salary and poured it into R&D instead, but it wouldn't have made any difference. The PC was trampling over everything.

A business exists for one purpose only - to make money for its owners. In 'bleeding Commodore dry' Gould did the sensible thing - he maximized the return on his investment for as long as he could. Who wouldn't do the same in his position? "Me!", you reply. If so then you would have been an idiot throwing your money away - because the Amiga was going down no matter what.

I thank Gould for giving us the Amiga - and for killing it when it needed to die. Had this not happened it inevitably would have turned into something virtually indistinguishable from a PC, like the Mac did. We also saw what might have happened with the so-called New Generation 'Amigas', which fractured the Amiga community and then have become a dead end themselves.

Amiga fans who excoriate Gould for 'killing' the Amiga should consider their own culpability first. Rampant piracy, refusing to upgrade, constantly whining about perceived inadequacies compared to the PC, switching to PCs as soon as they could - the Amiga community sucked far more out and put less back in than Gould did.


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bison 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 1-May-2022 0:19:20
#15 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2053
From: N-Space

@bhabbott

Quote:
Had this not happened it inevitably would have turned into something virtually indistinguishable from a PC, like the Mac did.

You might be right about this. Someone once said, "Nostalgia is missing something that never existed."

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BigD 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 1-May-2022 9:04:16
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6207
From: UK

@bhabbott

Gould didn't want the Amiga to succeed. His main pet product was the CDTV which was old tech in a new form factor which didn't even use the Amiga name. The Amiga to him was just a means to produce widgets rather than a platform to develop, invest in and grow! He disagreed with Tramiel who could manage the ridiculously lean running C=, allowing him to leave and inefficiencies creep in. He got rid of Rattigan who successfully introduced the A500 and he allowed the A3000+ to be cancelled and brought in the PC centric managers that delayed AGA. He didn't deserve a pay increase or share options in 1989.

Last edited by BigD on 01-May-2022 at 07:35 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 01-May-2022 at 09:06 AM.

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amigang 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 1-May-2022 11:06:07
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1821
From: Cheshire, England

@bhabbott

Quote:
Rampant piracy, refusing to upgrade, constantly whining about perceived inadequacies compared to the PC, switching to PCs as soon as they could - the Amiga community sucked far more out and put less back in than Gould did.


I was an Amiga only user all the way up to 2001, it was largely due to "industry" standards that just weren't available on the Amiga that I finally had to move to PC. It was still another two or three years that I finally saw programs that could legitimately do things better than the Amiga, that was arguably 10 years after the Amiga was mainstream, that finally i thought ok Windows XP can do things better than my Amiga, Amiga pushed way above its weight in my mind for it lack of investment.

Irving Gould was ok, but I think the biggest problem for Amiga was it never got a owner that really understood the platform, what it can do and what market it should go after, three things you really needed to make a success.

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Nonefornow 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 2-May-2022 18:13:23
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 263
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

@amigang

It was a strange position for Commodore to be in.

They bought and launched the Amiga but also developed and sold PC compatibles.

All the while the C64 and C128 were outselling the other lines of computers.

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BigD 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 2-May-2022 19:29:05
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6207
From: UK

@Nonefornow

The sepia print adverts and stupid 'rebirth' launch video advert didn't help; it was a 4,096 colour computer with multimedia capabilities that was advertised with washed out pictures of 'the good old times' or wacky "the future's Orange" type confusing rubbish. And then Goud launches his pet project the CDTV without even referencing the Amiga brand! Stupid at every step. The cost reducing of the A1000 to produce the A500 was the only sensible business decision they made from 1985 to 1994!

Gould was a liability by 1985.

Last edited by BigD on 02-May-2022 at 07:32 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 02-May-2022 at 07:31 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 02-May-2022 at 07:31 PM.

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Nonefornow 
Re: Irving Gould's House
Posted on 3-May-2022 16:29:02
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 263
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

@BigD

I was not aware at the time, but it seems apparent to me now that the departure of Jack Tramiel had caused some serious internal issues at Commodore. While on one side they continue legacy developments like the C128, they really did not have a strategic succession plan in place.

The acquisition of the Amiga was just to spite jack because he had that interest. It really did not fit in the culture of the company.

Bil Herd mentined many times that he know that the C128 was just a stop gap type of product until the Amiga was completed.

However (fortunately or unfortunately) that product proved to be more successful than the A1000.

At that point it would have been difficult stop production of a computer that was selling in millions That may have given C= a false sense of security that everything was working OK.

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