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kolla 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 3-Jun-2023 7:22:07
#361 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

A cool thing about the DSP 3210 is that it actually exists, on the AA3000 and AA3000+ motherboards, with software available on Aminet. Which is than what can be said about many other things thrown up here.

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cdimauro 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 3-Jun-2023 19:57:32
#362 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
A cool thing about the DSP 3210 is that it actually exists, on the AA3000 and AA3000+ motherboards,

Which are just prototypes.
Quote:
with software available on Aminet.

For a non-existing platform? People like to throw their free time.

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gdimauro 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 4-Jun-2023 1:57:08
#363 ]
New Member
Joined: 3-Jun-2023
Posts: 4
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

I believe you should stop wasting your time on this forum and dedicate yourself to more important things.

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cdimauro 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 4-Jun-2023 5:21:12
#364 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@gdimauro: you could have avoided wasting your, having registered only for stating it.

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kolla 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 4-Jun-2023 6:56:52
#365 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:
@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
A cool thing about the DSP 3210 is that it actually exists, on the AA3000 and AA3000+ motherboards,

Which are just prototypes.


No, they are fully functional and working Amiga systems.

Quote:

Quote:
with software available on Aminet.

For a non-existing platform? People like to throw their free time.


As I said, these systems exist today. You should pay more attention to what’s going on.

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cdimauro 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 4-Jun-2023 7:04:53
#366 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:
@kolla

Which are just prototypes.


No, they are fully functional and working Amiga systems.

Nothing to say about that, but they remain prototypes.
Quote:
Quote:
For a non-existing platform? People like to throw their free time.


As I said, these systems exist today.

Nevertheless, those systems are prototypes. They were just experiments. Nothing that had the "green pass" for becoming commercial products, with official o.s. support (APIs, libraries, documentation, examples, etc.).
Quote:
You should pay more attention to what’s going on.

I fully agree.

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kolla 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 4-Jun-2023 13:29:15
#367 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@cdimauro

Then everything minimig, vampire, pistorm etc are also just «prototypes»?

Not like the current AA3000+ evolved beyond the actual CBM prototypes, huh?

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cdimauro 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-Jun-2023 4:59:01
#368 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
@cdimauro

Then everything minimig, vampire, pistorm etc are also just «prototypes»?

No, they are not. They are products regularly sold to customers, with documentation and some with examples / code.
Quote:
Not like the current AA3000+ evolved beyond the actual CBM prototypes, huh?

Evolved how? This is an unreleased product: never produced by Commodore and, hence, not available to customers neither to developers.

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kolla 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-Jun-2023 6:32:28
#369 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:
@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
@cdimauro

Then everything minimig, vampire, pistorm etc are also just «prototypes»?

No, they are not. They are products regularly sold to customers, with documentation and some with examples / code.


But your criterias were…
Quote:

"green pass" for becoming commercial products, with official o.s. support (APIs, libraries, documentation, examples, etc.)


I bought my Minimig board from aCube way back, calling it a commercial product is a bit of a strecth, I had to assemble power adapter, SD card and OS myself, as well as the arm controller board from a different party, and yet another party to have the 2 extra MB of RAM soldered on. It only came with a sheet of paper as documentation, and there never was any dedicated support in OS. So what are you talking about?

I then got another Minimig based product, the MiST, which I got pre-assembled and with OS installation done by vendor (not manufacturer) with licensed (Cloanto) 3.1 OS - again no dedicated support in OS.

Third Minimig product - FleaFPGA, same stort as original Minimig - get the hardware, buy extras, do some soldering, download cores and good luck!

MiSTer… same.

Vampire… same. Though with Os 3.2 (maybe 3.1.4) ShowConfig shows CPU to be “FPGA”, which is quite pointless as the 68080 isn’t the only FPGA base CPU implementation in use… there are at least two other FPGA CPU cores widely used (TG68 and Fx68k)

Quote:

Quote:
Not like the current AA3000+ evolved beyond the actual CBM prototypes, huh?

Evolved how? This is an unreleased product: never produced by Commodore and, hence, not available to customers neither to developers.


We live in a period of time when “hobby users” have become quite capable, and manufacturing PCBs has become quite affordable.

https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=97670

https://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=1100

https://youtu.be/P6HlV-l16uQ

http://aminet.net/package/driver/other/dsp3210

There are quite a few other Amiga models, sorry “prototypes”, around these days than just those that came out of CBM, Amiga hardware keeps evolving in many directions, some more “faithful” to original chipset, some less.

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gdimauro 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-Jun-2023 8:00:30
#370 ]
New Member
Joined: 3-Jun-2023
Posts: 4
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Come on, dad

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cdimauro 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-Jun-2023 8:55:34
#371 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:
@kolla

No, they are not. They are products regularly sold to customers, with documentation and some with examples / code.


But your criterias were…
Quote:

"green pass" for becoming commercial products, with official o.s. support (APIs, libraries, documentation, examples, etc.)


I bought my Minimig board from aCube way back, calling it a commercial product is a bit of a strecth, I had to assemble power adapter, SD card and OS myself, as well as the arm controller board from a different party, and yet another party to have the 2 extra MB of RAM soldered on. It only came with a sheet of paper as documentation, and there never was any dedicated support in OS. So what are you talking about?

I then got another Minimig based product, the MiST, which I got pre-assembled and with OS installation done by vendor (not manufacturer) with licensed (Cloanto) 3.1 OS - again no dedicated support in OS.

Third Minimig product - FleaFPGA, same stort as original Minimig - get the hardware, buy extras, do some soldering, download cores and good luck!

MiSTer… same.

Those are products "emulating" the original hardware, and as long as this is achieved, which kind of support do you expect from the o.s.?
Quote:
Vampire… same. Though with Os 3.2 (maybe 3.1.4) ShowConfig shows CPU to be “FPGA”, which is quite pointless as the 68080 isn’t the only FPGA base CPU implementation in use… there are at least two other FPGA CPU cores widely used (TG68 and Fx68k)

Whatever, but it applies the above for the original Amiga o.s., plus they are developing a new o.s. for it, based on AROS 68K, and supporting it.
Quote:
Quote:

Evolved how? This is an unreleased product: never produced by Commodore and, hence, not available to customers neither to developers.


We live in a period of time when “hobby users” have become quite capable, and manufacturing PCBs has become quite affordable.

https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=97670

https://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=1100

https://youtu.be/P6HlV-l16uQ

http://aminet.net/package/driver/other/dsp3210

There are quite a few other Amiga models, sorry “prototypes”, around these days than just those that came out of CBM, Amiga hardware keeps evolving in many directions, some more “faithful” to original chipset, some less.

And I've absolutely nothing against those projects as long as the products based on them are being delivered to the customers.

Anyone can waste its time and/or money as it wishes.

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cdimauro 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-Jun-2023 8:57:22
#372 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@gdimauro

Quote:

gdimauro wrote:
@cdimauro

Come on, dad


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kolla 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-Jun-2023 15:04:51
#373 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@cdimauro
Quote:

And I've absolutely nothing against those projects as long as the products based on them are being delivered to the customers.


The question wasn’t whether you have anything against them, but about whether they are "just prototypes" - what triggered this was me writing that at least Amiga systems with DSP 3210 exist and have support software, unlike many other things discussed here.

From your response I get the impression that you have been ignorant about these efforts (and many others?)

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Karlos 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-Jun-2023 15:31:19
#374 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4394
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

This thread is all wrong!!

You should be trying to port x64 to OS4! x86 has already bindun, that's what DosBox is for

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kolla 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-Jun-2023 15:42:14
#375 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

It took me quite a while to realize that when people write x64 they typically no longer mean DEC Alpha 21x64…

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cdimauro 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-Jun-2023 16:09:40
#376 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
@cdimauro
Quote:

And I've absolutely nothing against those projects as long as the products based on them are being delivered to the customers.


The question wasn’t whether you have anything against them, but about whether they are "just prototypes" - what triggered this was me writing that at least Amiga systems with DSP 3210 exist and have support software, unlike many other things discussed here.

From your response I get the impression that you have been ignorant about these efforts (and many others?)

I never stated that I know everything, but when I'll become omniscient I'll let you know.

However the problem isn't my ignorance here, rather your systematically inability on following a discussion.

Specifically and regarding the DSP3210, everything started from here:

https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=44522&forum=2&start=340&viewmode=flat&order=0#861594

and, as you can clearly see, comment after comment, everything was related to Commodore's prototypes. That's why, FOLLOWING THE DISCUSSION, I've correctly talked about prototypes.

And that's why you failed when you started talking of the same stuff. You were talking about hobby projects that "continued" this stuff. However, this was NOT part of the thread's context: it's something DIFFERENT.

So and AFTER that you clarified that YOU (and only you) were referring to those hobby projects THEN I gave you my correct answer about THIS NEW (sub)discussion.

Understood now? Next time instead of accusing people of being ignorant try to at least follow the discussion AND report PROPER answers. IF you want to introduce something NEW/DIFFERENT is not a problem, but YOU HAVE TO CLARIFY IT, because people aren't inside YOUR mind.

Got it? Let's see now, albeit it's not the first time that you had the same behaviour.


@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote:
This thread is all wrong!!

You should be trying to port x64 to OS4! x86 has already bindun, that's what DosBox is for

x64? 64 bits on OS4? You're asking the impossible!


@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
It took me quite a while to realize that when people write x64 they typically no longer mean DEC Alpha 21x64…

Talking about ignorance, x64 is used on x86 side since around 20 years.

Whereas its usage for 21x64, well, let's say that it's not so common on IT literature.

Where have you've lived in the last 20 years? On a cave?

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g01df1sh 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-Jun-2023 18:42:16
#377 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1777
From: UK

Whats the point there is already Aros. If they are going to port it again port to Arm

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saimon69 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-Jun-2023 20:30:04
#378 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2007
Posts: 307
From: Los Angeles, CA

@g01df1sh

I agree on principle but unfortunately you can count actual AROS devs on a single hand -_-

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V8 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-Jun-2023 0:26:45
#379 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2022
Posts: 129
From: Unknown

@saimon69

Quote:
I agree on principle but unfortunately you can count actual AROS devs on a single hand -_-


True, but it is not like OS4 or MorphOS have more developers either.
Amiga and amiga-like systems are pretty nieche. There are honestly not very many people that want to use them and even less people willing to develop for them. In particular this applies to the three NG platforms.

At least AROS is open source and runs on x86-64 so there is that.

The only flavor of Amiga that seems to be actually alive and has a lot of developers for both HW and SW and heaps of excited users is the original commodore ks3.1 running on real amigas or new hw/fpgas.
That is where it seems all the development and excitement is happening nowadays.

68k Amiga is the only thing that is really active today and totally eclipses all three other flavors combined by orders of magnitude in pretty much any metric, number of users, developers, hw, activity...
And that is one hell of a comeback. It wasn't all that long ago when team os4 banned 68k amigas from being part of AmiWest because 68k was obsolete. Shameful times. Shameful times.

Last edited by V8 on 06-Jun-2023 at 12:52 AM.
Last edited by V8 on 06-Jun-2023 at 12:27 AM.

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eliyahu 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-Jun-2023 1:01:51
#380 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1957
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@V8

Quote:
And that is one hell of a comeback. It wasn't all that long ago when team os4 banned 68k amigas from being part of AmiWest because 68k was obsolete. Shameful times. Shameful times.

Oh? And when did they do that?

-- eliyahu

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