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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  RadeonHD driver confusion
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billt 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 2-Oct-2022 20:51:01
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA

i have seen the Rx driver written with capital and lowercase x... does that mean only RX (not r9, r7. r5 etc) or when lowercade does it include all Rn with n= 5, 7, 9, X?

i have an R9-280X card id like to try, which is the correct driver for that?

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

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Spectre660 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 2-Oct-2022 21:17:46
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3912
From: Unknown

@billt

The RadeonHD driver .

Version 3.7 comes with the Enhancer 2.x packages.

The new Version 5.x is a separate purchase .

V5.x does hardware accelerated video play back and has GART function
for X1000 and X5000 machines that speeds up memory transfers.
The hardware accelerated video play back needs some
components that are in the Enhancer 2.2 package..
Currently H.264 videos up to 720 resolution are working.

The RadeonRX driver is included with Enhancer packages V2.1 and V2.2.
It is for Radeon RX 550,RX 560,RX 570,RX 580 and RX 590 cards and the older Radeon RX 4xx models .
Has the GART functions for X1000 and X5000 machines and hardware accelerated video playback.
Can do playback of H.264 videos up to 4K in resolution even on a Sam460ex.
Should also be capable of playing back H.265 videos once the Amiga video players are updated to support it


Quote:

billt wrote

i have an R9-280X card id like to try, which is the correct driver for that?

Last edited by Spectre660 on 02-Oct-2022 at 09:19 PM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 02-Oct-2022 at 09:18 PM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

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Lozspd4 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 3-Oct-2022 18:07:03
#23 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Feb-2013
Posts: 12
From: Unknown

@Spectre660

Are you having problems with the driver on your sam 460.

dvplayer works well the workbench is also faster, but there are still lots of bugs, Emotion crashes , games dont work ie spencer MACE Shogo, MUI Locks up when using select tabs.

Amiupdate freezes the system when trying to open, candi doesnt work freezes the system, Looks like we are Beta testers again. Seems the problem could be MUI But not to sure.

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Spectre660 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 3-Oct-2022 22:21:07
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3912
From: Unknown

@Lozspd4

Yes there are issues.
Had been concentration on the video playback then .

I have filed some bug reports on Mantis .
I am using a RadeonHD card again for testing after about 6 month.
Had been using a RadeonRX Card.


Emotion crashed on the Sam460ex at that time with the RadeonHD card
and I filed a bug report via Mantis .
Also sent an email to the authors of Emotion about the same time as
my issue could not be duplicated on other machines.
Not received a response or acknowledgement yet .
So not sure if the issue is with the driver or Emotion yet.

http://www.amiga.org/developer/bugreports/view.php?id=882

DVPlayer seemed to be working for what I tested then but is crashing after a few seconds of playback now.

Last edited by Spectre660 on 03-Oct-2022 at 10:25 PM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 03-Oct-2022 at 10:23 PM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 03-Oct-2022 at 10:22 PM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 03-Oct-2022 at 10:22 PM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

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Hypex 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 4:05:50
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10830
From: Greensborough, Australia

@billt

Quote:
i have seen the Rx driver written with capital and lowercase x... does that mean only RX (not r9, r7. r5 etc) or when lowercade does it include all Rn with n= 5, 7, 9, X?


Yes this adds another confusion. The OS4 driver is said to support "Rx" cards while there are also "RX" models. But I think this caused by marketing speak.

So, to make sense of it, Rx would mean any card with an R5, R7 or R9 designation. And RX would mean any card like a RX 580 with an RX designation.

It's caused by AMD marketing speak. But also, any card above the HD 8000 series isn't a HD card any more. Since they started using the letter R. And so Rx. So my R7 250 isn't designated a HD card, it's an R7. So falls under Rx. But, it is driven by the HD driver. So it's not an RX. If that makes sense.

Maybe it's like the reflex. Every little thing the reflex does, leaves you answered with a question R.

See here for product families:
https://www.amd.com/en/products/specifications/graphics

Last edited by Hypex on 04-Oct-2022 at 05:54 AM.

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Hans 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 5:03:54
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4985
From: New Zealand

@Hypex

Quote:
The OS4 driver is said to support "Rx" cards while there are also "RX" models. But I think this caused by marketing speak.

Whoever said that is clueless. Of course, AMD make it difficult with their naming scheme, which includes using old chip series as the low-end for new graphics card series.

Here's a quick summary:
- RadeonHD.chip v4/5 - supports cards containing a Southern Islands GPU. This includes members of the Radeon HD 7xxx series (but not all), and some of the Radeon R5/7/9 series. Look at the official compatibility list for which ones. Alternatively, look on this Wikipedia page for "GCN 1st gen" cards (yes, yet another "code name" for Southern Islands GPUs)**
- RadeonRX.chip - is specifically for Polaris GPUs, which are select Radeon RX cards (capital X). This includes the Radeon RX 550, 560, 570, 580. The Wikipedia page lists them as having the "GCN 4th gen" archictecture
- W3D_SI - isn't obsolete yet. It provides legacy Warp3D support for Southern Islands cards. This is needed for old Warp3D/MiniGL sofware. It'll be obsolete when W3D_NovaBridge is finally released
- Warp3D Nova - provides (relatively) modern shader based 3D graphics capabilities. It currently has drivers for both Southern Islands and Polaris GPUs. While sharing the name, it's incompatible with the old Warp3D. This will change in a future release with W3D_NovaBridge providing backward compatibility
- VALib - provides hardware video decoding drivers. It's based on VAAPI, which has been adapted for AmigaOS. It also has drivers for Southern Islands and Polaris GPUs. The Southern Islands driver needs RadeonHD.chip v5

I hope that makes things a bit clearer. If you're wondering how MiniGL, GLES2, etc fit into the picture:
- MiniGL - provides OpenGL 1.2ish support on top of Warp3D. It's obsolete, but there's obviously quite a lot of legacy software that uses it
- ogles2.library - provides OpenGL ES 2 support on top of Warp3D Nova (with some OpenGL ES 3 features). OpenGL ES is a subset of OpenGL for mobile/embedded systems. In particular, OpenGL ES 2 ditches the legacy OpenGL fixed pipeline, and other things people shouldn't be using any more
- GL4ES - a thin wrapper library that provides full desktop OpenGL on top of OpenGL ES 2. It implements the fixed pipieline and other features that were ditched by OpenGL ES. This makes porting of desktop OpenGL games/apps easier.

Hans

** The older RadeonHD v3 driver also supported older graphics card generations, and even Radeon X1xxx series. Unfortunately, we had to switch to newer code from AMD, and it wasn't feasible to add hardware video decoding and keep supporting the older series.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Lozspd4 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 12:07:42
#27 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Feb-2013
Posts: 12
From: Unknown

@Spectre660

Thanks for you answer im using a R9 270x so i hope they can get the problem sorted, i have a rx 580 in one of my pc,s but its water cooled so is not a option to test. Maybe hans can put some light on the problems we are having.

Regards

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Hypex 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 12:58:55
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10830
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Lozspd4

That sounds like exactly the same problems I was having when I installed FE Update 2. I have an R7 250 that was working perfectly fine on Update 1. Then bam. AmiUpdate stared killing menus, killed the dock and eventually the system. MUI apps were all faulty. Whole system went down and I got freezes on boot.

I had to disable compositing. Them I found it had conflicts with interrupts. That allowed it to boot but it was still faulty. The hotfix didn't help so reverted it.

I've read turning off interrupts will help with the new Radeon driver. But it's not a fix and the Sams have an issue with the V5 driver.

There's a few Sam owners so it's important to solve it and it's being investigated.

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Lozspd4 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 13:41:02
#29 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Feb-2013
Posts: 12
From: Unknown

@Hypex @ Spectra

Hi Hans sent me in the right direction please go to the link to see how to get the sam flying: https://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/post.php

Thanks Guys for your help

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Spectre660 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 14:34:35
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3912
From: Unknown

@Lozspd4 & @Hypex

That is cool.

The Oland based cards (R7 240, HD8570 & R7 250) seem to be the one giving the most problems. Even with the turned off Interrupt I am having the same problems .

I beleive that My previous testing was done using an Verde Based R9 255 card .





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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

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Spectre660 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 14:42:44
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3912
From: Unknown

@Lozspd4

The Radeon RX550 and Rx560 cards work very well with the RadeonRX driver on Sam460 models.
The only issue that we have encountered with Spencer and Tower Defense have been sorted out.


Last edited by Spectre660 on 04-Oct-2022 at 09:15 PM.

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Lozspd4 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 15:34:03
#32 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Feb-2013
Posts: 12
From: Unknown

@Spectre660

Thanks for your answer was it interrupt problems, since making the change in dev:Monitors the system works really well.

Mace Spencer frog defence work really well shogo cant reckonize sound card but don,t think its gfx card related.

Candi works well Emotion works well and of cause dvplayer works well when playing videos only 9 - 10% cpu usage.

MUI is Behaving its self so im quiet happy now.

The system feels alot snappier as well. so win win at the momment.

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Hypex 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 5:20:19
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10830
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Hans

Thank you for your quick summary which details a lot!

Quote:
Whoever said that is clueless. Of course, AMD make it difficult with their naming scheme, which includes using old chip series as the low-end for new graphics card series.


It says so in the official wiki here. But it doesn't explain what it means. I'm sure I read this more often but can't find any other links. On the first line of Introduction.

Quote:
The RadeonHD driver software is an OS 4.x 2D graphics driver for RadeonHD graphics card. It also supports some Radeon Rx models.


http://wiki.amiga.org/radeonhd

As stated on the RadeonHD V5 driver product page, the officially compatibility list is on your site. While extensive, it looks like a bunch of random cards with random driver versions now. This doesn't help people finding what cards are supported and most of the driver versions are obsolete. So V5 driver isn't even on the list!

Product page:
https://amigakit.amiga.store/radeonhd-driver-version-p-1107.html

Official compatibility list:
https://hdrlab.org.nz/projects/amiga-os-4-projects/radeonhd-driver/radeonhd-driver-hardware-compatibility

So, it looks like I may be missing legacy Warp3D support. Looks like I didn't miss it much as I didn't notice or didn't run anything that needed it lately. Or MiniGL. Should test what breaks.

And the Warp3D NovaBridge, I keep reading about, will solve this problem then.

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Hypex 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 5:28:56
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10830
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Lozspd4

I don't have the V5 driver myself. Only the one included in the 1.5 Enhancer Plus package. And my machine is an X1000.

But it's interesting to read an R7 250 is one of the problematic cards. Perhaps I should have sought another card. But at the time I was sourcing a new card and not a used one.

Also your link is broke and just points to Amigans main page.

Last edited by Hypex on 05-Oct-2022 at 09:14 AM.

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Hans 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 5:44:06
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4985
From: New Zealand

@Hypex

Quote:
It says so in the official wiki here. But it doesn't explain what it means. I'm sure I read this more often but can't find any other links. On the first line of Introduction.

We need to be careful with what we're talking about. My comment is regarding the RadeonRX driver (capital X), which does *NOT* support Radeon R5/7/9 cards. It's the RadeonHD card that supports some of them.

Quote:
And the Warp3D NovaBridge, I keep reading about, will solve this problem then.

Click here for my AmiWest 2021 presentationi on NovaBridge.

Quote:
But it's interesting to read an R7 250 is one of the problematic cards. Perhaps I should have sought another card. But at the I was sourcing a new card and not a used one.

Not really. The Radeon R7 250 works just fine in my X5000. It's the Sam460 where the problems start (lack of memory coherency is a real pain). I'm also getting some vague reports of freezing issues with the X1000, but those aren't card specific.

BTW, are you getting emails from A-EON's bug tracker? There's activity on your bug report #803.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Hypex 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 12:45:46
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10830
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Hans

Quote:
We need to be careful with what we're talking about. My comment is regarding the RadeonRX driver (capital X), which does *NOT* support Radeon R5/7/9 cards. It's the RadeonHD card that supports some of them.


Just to reiterate, your reply was to my comment which I'll re-quote:
Quote:
The OS4 driver is said to support "Rx" cards while there are also "RX" models. But I think this caused by marketing speak.


The context I was referring to was specifically in relation to the Amiga OS4 RadeonHD driver and in particular the wiki page I linked about it.

There it makes a brief mention of Rx models. But that's rather close to RX models. Now, to me I see a difference, but I can see they still too close. After all, people still use "mb" when they mean "mega bit" or "mega byte". I prefer to use the term I mean.

This is made worse since there is also AMD Radeon Rx 200 GPU series. According to below. So we have Rx GPU models as well as RX card models.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_200_series

In the OS4 driver context, explaining what is meant by Rx would help, since it implies R5/R7/R9. But, avoiding Rx may be better, since there are RX cards that confuses it. And simply plainly stating R5, R7 or R9 would be best since it would say exactly what cards are supported.

Another related issue, or slight technicality, is what I discovered with R series cards that are not considered HD. HD being the previous generation. But, some R series cards feature a HD chipset. A supported chipset is what matters. Just to help, RX does follow on from R9. Maybe it was clearer than I thought.

Quote:
Click here for my AmiWest 2021 presentationi on NovaBridge.


Thanks, I may have seen that. Wipeout in a window looks rather small. How does it perform with scaling to full screen HD?

Quote:
Not really. The Radeon R7 250 works just fine in my X5000. It's the Sam460 where the problems start (lack of memory coherency is a real pain). I'm also getting some vague reports of freezing issues with the X1000, but those aren't card specific.


I wonder if it is my particular Sapphire variant. I have a habit off buying hardware that shares working model numbers but still breaks. For example, I once bought a VIA USB2 card with exact PCI IDs as working ones with OS4 USB2 driver, but when I tried it the driver just crashed!

However, my card does work with OS4, but there is some conflict in the Update 2 Kickstart modules.

Quote:
BTW, are you getting emails from A-EON's bug tracker? There's activity on your bug report #803.


I am and have some catching to do.

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PixelHi 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 18:39:11
#37 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2022
Posts: 34
From: Unknown

In anticipation of Sam460le what is the most universal Radeon i should get for it? r7 240?

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Hans 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 6-Oct-2022 1:32:10
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4985
From: New Zealand

@Hypex

I think I mixed up your comment and billt's, who did seem to ask about the RadeonRX driver.

Quote:
Thanks, I may have seen that. Wipeout in a window looks rather small. How does it perform with scaling to full screen HD?

It doesn't go full-screen, because WipeOut is hard-coded for a big-endian 16-bit screen which aren't available on newer graphics cards.

@PixelHI
Quote:
In anticipation of Sam460le what is the most universal Radeon i should get for it? r7 240?

I suggest you go for a Polaris card such as the Radeon RX 550. You won't be able to see UBoot on it, but you get UHD/4K video decoding and better performance in general.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Spectre660 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 6-Oct-2022 11:31:23
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3912
From: Unknown

Expect some good news re the RadeonHD V5 driver at some point.
Definitely on the Sam460 side.

Emotion issue was indeed RadeonHD V5 related .



_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

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PixelHi 
Re: RadeonHD driver confusion
Posted on 6-Oct-2022 11:36:03
#40 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2022
Posts: 34
From: Unknown

@Hans @Spectre660

Thanks. I think I will use r7 240, since I want to actually see Uboot, at least at the beginning to set up and learn what is there.

If/when Uboot will work with Rx 550 maybe then I will try it.

For me main thing is both cards are available as a low profile 🙂.

Last edited by PixelHi on 06-Oct-2022 at 11:36 AM.

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