@ppcamiga1

Has it ever, once occurred to you that someone wants to develop software on something modern that will still run on old hardware, or vice versa? This is why some people prefer to use emulation. It does not exclude real hardware. It is possible, of course, to write software on the emulator that becomes impractical to run on real hardware due to performance constraints.

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@BigD
Well, if he wants to do his own thing I'd say go for it and encourage it. Part of what you said is true but it's also true that great things have come from individual innovators, some of them were a little crazy. Many of them were persecuted in their time...

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José

@Jose

Sadly, I don't see how he can succeed. His position is that a powerful elite that has already sunk the 68000 will not allow it to succeed. Yet, if Motorola and NXP couldn't make 68K viable (despite the fact that they continued to development in the embedded space with coldfire) against the wishes of this malevolent force, what chance does a single person have?

I'm pretty sure a "no masons please" clause in his sales pitch will thwart them. Right?

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@Jose

everybody can do what he or she wants.... but he asks for support of others and it does not sound like he has ever done business. He has a long list what he rules out but I do not understand what his idea really is. With only selling of old amiga hardware and repairs it will be difficult to live. And he even talks about several people. Also he seems not to know how expensive it is to be self-employed and not easy to build up something. That not happens in short time, normally you need years for it. Who pays him for his living in that time? If he thinks he can do something that why not create something on its own and start small. Also creating a eShop is not that difficult and expensive today. And simply start... If his business is really fast growing and he needs something bigger then perhaps there is someone interested. What he proposes sounds like he wants to find some crazy people with lots of money who make his hobby real.

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@Amiga4000

I hear that Greta’s parents really enjoy Cheese Pizza.

Thats what you get when people forget to have their prescriptions refilled before the pharmacy closed for the holidays....

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@ppcamiga1

developers in normal world do not care about CPU but about selling software. I mainly use emulation and bought most of the software in recent years. Funnily indeed some developers said that (why developing for emukation if there is a windows version) but at the same time had no problem with developing for old obsolet hardware like A500. For me rather funny.

On the other hand as I understand it, you can today only earn money with classic games running on classic hardware (including collectors editions). One reason why most new games today are not using better hardware offered with vampire or pistorm.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 31-Dec-2022 at 10:07 PM.

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @ppcamiga1 developers in normal world do not care about CPU but about selling software. I mainly use emulation and bought most of the software in recent years. Funnily indeed some developers said that (why developing for emukation if there is a windows version) but at the same time had no problem with developing for old obsolet hardware like A500. For me rather funny. On the other hand as I understand it, you can today only earn money with classic games running on classic hardware (including collectors editions). One reason why most new games today are not using better hardware offered with vampire or pistorm.

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Fulfill newlight's Elite Narcissist Demands NOW Or He Will Send You To H3LL!

The “real” CPU is a myth, they were always abstract ideas of so called architectures, engineered into chips by making a lot of pragmatic compromises.
The days of a “CPU chip” are long gone already, today’s chips have much, much more than just a CPU in them, and who can tell what’s “real” or “emulated” anyways, and why would it matter? It doesn’t, and to suggest “most developers want real CPU” is nonsense, considering that most developing environments and higher level programmers languges today are targeting some sort of abstraction that pretty much are virtual machines, virtual architectures… emulators.

Last edited by kolla on 01-Jan-2023 at 01:17 AM.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

I do understand the attraction of bare metal programming and the 68K ISA has a certain aesthetical quality. I remember PPC assembler and while it had some nice features, the basic syntax and mnemonic structure was awful, IMO. As is, I have to say, x64. Of course, this is all subjective and I'm sure some people find those nice to work with.

The 68K was the last architecture I worked on where I can honestly claim that performance optimisation was fully understandable (although there are always surprises where things that should be quicker end up making no difference or being worse). The sentiment that the compiler knows better than you really begins to set in on newer architectures which takes some of the fun out of programming at a lower level.

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Well, I wouldn't count him as crazy, I remeber seing some libraries or some code by him that was pretty cool, I don't remember exactly what it was, it's been a long time, so unless something bad happened to him meanwhile, he seems like a clever guy to me...

But yeah, I have to agree that I don't think the perspectives are very good, that's why I suggested him going free lance to give it a try first. I suspect doing it in France might be getting difficult, probably some policies put in place by Mr Macron for free lancers or something like that... I think that's why he's thinking about moving...

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José

@Jose

No one said he wasn't smart; we just have a little trouble with the conspiracy theories.
He is wherry good at optimizing things for 680x0 / AGA.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

There's a fine line between brilliance and madness.

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@Karlos

Being a brilliant software engineer is not mutually exclusive with having severe mental illness.

Case in point : Terry Davis.

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: The “real” CPU is a myth,

Are you trying to tell me this 64 pin DIP IC I have here (that I unsoldered off an old Macintosh SCSI card) is a myth? No, it's a piece of real hardware. Some day I want to put it in an Amiga and see if it works. Then I want to run it at the highest clock speed I can, to see what an original 16MHz 68HC000 is capable of.

Do I want it to make my code run faster? No, I already have a 50MHz 030 and a Vampire. I just want to see that old real hardware do its thing. I want to put a scope probe on each pin to look at the signals, and I want to program it in machine code knowing that the timing must be 'cycle accurate' because this a real 68000!

There's lot more to retrocomputing than just having something to run your code on. A well designed circuit using retro chips is not just a means to an end, it's a work of art to be admired simply for its physical presence. You can't reproduce that in an emulator!

@bhabbott

Actually, you can. While it's not the same aesthetic, an emulator is a piece of software that can stand on its own and equally be admired as a work of art. Think of the years of effort and dedication that has gone into something like UAE. It's not just a virtual CPU that can run 68K code. It's a cycle exact simulation of that "well designed circuit" if you choose to run it as such. Or you can run it as a workhorse of a machine that can only exist today thanks to being an emulation, combining features that no real machine ever had. It has register level emulation not just of the core hardware but countless peripherals too.

It's a remarkable piece of engineering and shouldn't be dismissed just because it's non physical.

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@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote: @bhabbott Actually, you can. While it's not the same aesthetic, an emulator is a piece of software that can stand on its own and equally be admired as a work of art. Think of the years of effort and dedication that has gone into something like UAE. It's not just a virtual CPU that can run 68K code. It's a cycle exact simulation of that "well designed circuit" if you choose to run it as such. Or you can run it as a workhorse of a machine that can only exist today thanks to being an emulation, combining features that no real machine ever had. It has register level emulation not just of the core hardware but countless peripherals too. It's a remarkable piece of engineering and shouldn't be dismissed just because it's non physical.

I totally agree.

By the way, in a world where companies abstract hardware by running thousands of servers on virtual machines, grown kids spit on software emulation blatating about "FPGAs are not emulation" and other silly wrong assumptions, showing their poor technical knowledge while replying to a completely foolish request to open a physical-only shop, in whatever european country but some, because of no better specified free software lobbysts blocking the author and the "use of Commodore name" (sic).

There is so much discomfort in this thread.

@CosmosUnivers

Hi Cosmos,

Great that someone is thinking about a new Amiga Shop. Competition is always welcome.

If you want to setup a company you have to do it by yourself and only by yourself.
No one is going to support you with that.

If you want to make a living out of the Amiga you should first set it up and persevere.
Along the way you get people on board some work for you some hang around for various reasons.
Setting up a company is hard work. Like Elon musk said "Running a start-up is chewing glass and staring into the abyss".

Posting a message like this here doesn't fit with entrepreneurship.
Entrepreneurs have a strong focus on what they want, they just go and listen to no-one even if it is a 100 against 1.

Good luck!

ps.
I like your blog, I've stumbled upon it a lot.

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@sananaman

I agree with your comments on entrepreneurial spirit but would like to reaffirm the need for a USP when starting ANY business!

CosmosUnivers seems to be an accomplished 68k programmer and a dab hand at optimisations and AGA specifically. This IS quite a talent and maybe the focus of the business should be on that?

I have heard that Hollywood does not produce very efficient or optimised code despite being a good product. There IS room in the market for CosmosUnivers but I would say to avoid direct competition with RetroPassion, AmigaKit, AMIGAstore.eu and Alinea etc! An online only coding business might be a good start?

Last edited by BigD on 03-Jan-2023 at 11:57 AM.

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@V8

I'd go further and say there's a significant amount of deviation from "the norm" among the best software engineers. Obsession is a big part of that.

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