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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 20-Feb-2024 16:15:44
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12835
From: Norway

@V8

Quote:
Just because it runs on another, different, dead ISA?


does AROS run on dead isa? I get impression your not that interested, if did not look that up.
What does the ISA have to do with what OS supports or not?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Feb-2024 at 06:07 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Feb-2024 at 04:19 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Feb-2024 at 04:18 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 20-Feb-2024 20:56:12
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3650
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@pixie

AmigaOS4.x does have it, but most of the OS in shared memory, its not granite.
Yes, the memory protection is not at same level as on UNIX and Window systems, that’s true.

Which kind of memory protection is implemented by OS4 (despite marking as unavailable the memory which is free, to intercept access to non-used memory)? Protecting the code sections as read-only?
Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@V8

Quote:
Just because it runs on another, different, dead ISA?


does AROS run on dead isa? I get impression your not that interested, if did not look that up.
What does the ISA have to do with what OS supports or not?

AROS runs on dead ISAs as well as modern ones.

That's why it doesn't make sense to talk about "NG" for... ports!

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DiscreetFX 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 20-Feb-2024 21:43:07
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2498
From: Chicago, IL

The actual Amiga under Commodore was developed for 9 years and got lots of upgrades. Has the upgrade cycle of NG AmigaOS outpaced the original development Commodore did?

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kamelito 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 21-Feb-2024 8:50:39
#44 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 815
From: Unknown

We all know the details, it’s nothing new.
Does it need another thread about it?
AmigaOS has never been given the name NG AFAIK so it has to be the hardware and that’s about it.
As for the OS Morphos had a chance to do it but they said that users just wanted the Abox…

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OlafS25 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 21-Feb-2024 9:48:15
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6369
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

AROS supports mainly 68k, X86 and experiemental X64

Theoretical there are also ARM and PowerPC but both are not really relevant and supported

of course ISA not defines how modern OS is. You could have a modern AmigaOS running on PowerPC if you had dropped compatiblity and moved 68k support in emulation. It were design decisions that affected the OS, not the ISA

Last edited by OlafS25 on 21-Feb-2024 at 09:53 AM.

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thellier 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 21-Feb-2024 11:39:58
#46 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2009
Posts: 263
From: Paris

@pavlor

>nobody will write drivers supporting major features of recent hardware (eg. those "compositing effect" or general 3D support).

Done in 2019
http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=graphics/misc/patchcompositetags.lha
= allow games using composition in WinUAE

I have also made a cpu "compositing.library" that add compositing to OS3 68k for my own cross-compiling usage inside WinUAE


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OlafS25 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 21-Feb-2024 12:55:38
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6369
From: Unknown

@thellier

WinUAE here means OS4 in WinUAE or 68k in WinUAE? Where is the composition.library for OS3? I could add it in my distribution and test it.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 21-Feb-2024 at 12:56 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 21-Feb-2024 17:37:59
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3650
From: Germany

@OlafS25: indeed. It would be interesting if this could work out with the Amiga OS / 68k.

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Yogi27 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 21-Feb-2024 17:39:49
#49 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Dec-2002
Posts: 357
From: Chicago, Illinois

Hi Everyone,

As far as the original article, it is simple, not everyone is thrilled with the "new" operating systems. I mean, have you used them. They are dumbed down, forced updates, no control garbage. My ChromeBook drives me nuts everytime it gets an update and there is not much I can do about the dumb updates they make. My favorite recently with android, is when you hit the power button, Google Assitant comes up. Who thought of that garabage. Call me crazy, but I like the power button to be a power button. Well, but they are great because they have memory protection etc...

So yeah, I like that the Amiga NG systems have the faults of the original Amigas. That the OS runs the way it always has, that I have some control over it. I feel lucky that I am able to use Amiga OS in 2024 (AmigaOS 4.1 and AmigaOS 3.2). I like the way us Amiga Users come up with inventive ways to use the new interfaces and software for our Amigas.

I would tell this author, fine, so the Amiga NG flavor of AmigaOS didn't fix the legacy stuff, so what, and you reject the NG label, okay, but your opinion is neither wanted nor asked for. I don't want AmigaOS to turn into the Modern OS Design (with taking out the legacy stuff), thank you very much. For me, what would be the point of even using it if it wasn't the AmigaOS it always has been (and how about letting us fix these problems our way, without turning AmigaOS into another Modern OS Clone).

Thanks for listening and I will be releasing new versions of my Software with Graffias79 for the release of the AmigaOne A1222+, and yes, on AmigaOS 4.1 with all it's legacy stuff included.

Yogi

Last edited by Yogi27 on 21-Feb-2024 at 06:02 PM.
Last edited by Yogi27 on 21-Feb-2024 at 06:00 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 21-Feb-2024 19:26:51
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3650
From: Germany

@Yogi27: the author says that if you report your user experience then it doesn't matter and he doesn't care, since the article is pretty technical and explains his PoV reporting FACTs about why those systems cannot be considered "NG".

And this doesn't change even if you releases software for them...

Last edited by cdimauro on 21-Feb-2024 at 07:27 PM.

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Kronos 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 21-Feb-2024 20:28:02
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2573
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Well the "FACTS" are:

A1000 was the OriginalGeneration
A500/2000 were NG when they were released even if they were minimal upgrades
A600/3000/CDTV were "facelifts" using that 2nd gen HW a bit different
A1200/4000/CD32 were again NG putting the ECS stuff into "old"

Same as with cars, it's a "NG" when maker says it, and wether you think its just a minor side step, nothing of importance has chanced etc is irrelevant.

Also works with SW, sure you could backport everything in AOS3.x to 1.x doesn't change the fact that it was a new/next generation of OS.

Maybe labeling you opinions as such would help in you not coming around like a ###### #######

_________________
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- blame Canada

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cdimauro 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 21-Feb-2024 21:07:01
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3650
From: Germany

@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote:
@cdimauro

Well the "FACTS" are:

A1000 was the OriginalGeneration
A500/2000 were NG when they were released even if they were minimal upgrades
A600/3000/CDTV were "facelifts" using that 2nd gen HW a bit different
A1200/4000/CD32 were again NG putting the ECS stuff into "old"



Which technical debts have been addressed and solved by those subsequent products?
Quote:
Same as with cars, it's a "NG" when maker says it, and wether you think its just a minor side step, nothing of importance has chanced etc is irrelevant.

Sure. The producer can also add a completely useless XMOS chip to the machine and adding a PCI slot with some extra GPIO lines (useful for controlling the lights in the xmas tree) as well to mimic the original machines, but... it's still the same PC-with-PowerPC-instead-of-x86-CPU.

Labels are... just labels. Even when they come from producers.
Quote:
Also works with SW, sure you could backport everything in AOS3.x to 1.x doesn't change the fact that it was a new/next generation of OS.

Backporting was/isn't the point. The point is that all of them share the same technical limits.

Do you understand it finally?
Quote:
Maybe labeling you opinions as such would help in you not coming around like a ###### #######

And here starts the blind fanatical which has not even the b@alls to insult the infidel that has touched his totem...

As usual, I've so say.

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Kronos 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 21-Feb-2024 21:57:17
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2573
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:

Labels are... just labels. Even when they come from producers..


So you do understand and choose to go nutjob on your random interpretation of 2 words.

Good to know.

_________________
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- blame Canada

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agami 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 21-Feb-2024 22:57:48
#54 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1678
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Kronos

Quote:
Kronos wrote:

A1000 was the OriginalGeneration
A500/2000 were NG when they were released even if they were minimal upgrades
A600/3000/CDTV were "facelifts" using that 2nd gen HW a bit different
A1200/4000/CD32 were again NG putting the ECS stuff into "old"

The "FACTS" are:
- A1000 was a public beta, kind of like Apple Vision Pro is right now
- A500/A2000 were Original Generation, actual products using publicly beta-tested technology
- A3000/CDTV/A600 was a minor improvement to the OG hardware with ECS, and a new VERSION of the OS
- A4000/A1200/CD32 had what at the time might have been considered the Next Gen of Amiga custom chips (AGA), but for the most part, and no thanks to compromising the AA+ goals, it was mostly just a new VERSION of the Amiga experience. A very good upgrade, but not a generational leap.
- Planned PA-RISC/Hombre Amiga would've been a NG Amiga. Re-architected from the ground up in hardware, and a major shift in the OS and software going forward. Alas, it never came to pass.

VERSIONS of OS are not GENERATIONS. MacOS 8 is not System 7 NG. It was OS X that made a generational leap. A clear break with different philosophies in how to do an OS.

AmigaOS 4 was meant as a NEW VERSION of Amiga OS, running on PowerPC because the 68k was for all intents and purposes, no more.
AmigaOS 5 was the planned NG break from how to do Amiga OS. That too (sadly) never happened.

MorphOS, as nice as it is, is not NG anything. It is just MorphOS (v2).
AROS is a reverse engineered re-implementation of Amiga OS 3.x. Remarkable work, and I wish the powers that be at the time rallied behind it, but that too didn't happen. Thanks to the vultures, it is today overshadowed by the pace of progress at Haiku OS.

But it's still not late for AROS. All it would take is for A-EON to endorse it as the official OS of their next thing, if they even have a next thing, and we just might get our Amiga OS NG.




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cdimauro 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 22-Feb-2024 5:48:18
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3650
From: Germany

@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:

Labels are... just labels. Even when they come from producers..


So you do understand and choose to go nutjob on your random interpretation of 2 words.

Good to know.

I understand that the Nature was an evil stepmother with you, since you still don't get what I repeated several times and more clearly on my last comment, which I report to meet halfway you:

the article is pretty technical and explains his (the author - Ed) PoV reporting FACTs about why those systems cannot be considered "NG"

Let's see if now you're able to read it as it, despite the MorphOS-tinted glasses of the blind fanatical that you're putting on.

Ah, BTW: of course you've cut all the rest of my reply. Guess why...


@agami

Quote:

agami wrote:
@Kronos

Quote:
Kronos wrote:

A1000 was the OriginalGeneration
A500/2000 were NG when they were released even if they were minimal upgrades
A600/3000/CDTV were "facelifts" using that 2nd gen HW a bit different
A1200/4000/CD32 were again NG putting the ECS stuff into "old"

The "FACTS" are:
- A1000 was a public beta, kind of like Apple Vision Pro is right now
- A500/A2000 were Original Generation, actual products using publicly beta-tested technology
- A3000/CDTV/A600 was a minor improvement to the OG hardware with ECS, and a new VERSION of the OS
- A4000/A1200/CD32 had what at the time might have been considered the Next Gen of Amiga custom chips (AGA), but for the most part, and no thanks to compromising the AA+ goals, it was mostly just a new VERSION of the Amiga experience. A very good upgrade, but not a generational leap.
- Planned PA-RISC/Hombre Amiga would've been a NG Amiga. Re-architected from the ground up in hardware, and a major shift in the OS and software going forward. Alas, it never came to pass.

VERSIONS of OS are not GENERATIONS. MacOS 8 is not System 7 NG. It was OS X that made a generational leap. A clear break with different philosophies in how to do an OS.

AmigaOS 4 was meant as a NEW VERSION of Amiga OS, running on PowerPC because the 68k was for all intents and purposes, no more.
AmigaOS 5 was the planned NG break from how to do Amiga OS. That too (sadly) never happened.

MorphOS, as nice as it is, is not NG anything. It is just MorphOS (v2).
AROS is a reverse engineered re-implementation of Amiga OS 3.x. Remarkable work, and I wish the powers that be at the time rallied behind it, but that too didn't happen. Thanks to the vultures, it is today overshadowed by the pace of progress at Haiku OS.

But it's still not late for AROS. All it would take is for A-EON to endorse it as the official OS of their next thing, if they even have a next thing, and we just might get our Amiga OS NG.

+1. I could have given +2 and merged if this:

"AmigaOS 4 was meant as a NEW VERSION of Amiga OS, running on PowerPC"

was reported as this:

"AmigaOS 4 was meant as a PowerPC port of Amiga OS".

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ppcamiga1 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 22-Feb-2024 8:45:57
#56 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 790
From: Unknown

Amiga NG was real NG when it come about year 2000.
Amiga NG is Amiga that Commodore will made around year 2000 if exists.
But time passed and we need new NG 2.0 that will be real NG today.
from developer pov everything below mui should be cut off and replaced by unix.
Amiga NG 2.0 should be good open source mui clone.
Amiga NG 2.0 should be made by szulc, szonwejs, dimauro, agami, karlos and others
that waste time on attacks on ppc.
instead of wasting time on attacks on ppc,
szulc, szonwejs, dimauro, agami, karlos etc
should spend time on doing good open source mui clone then good rad for it
then new classes for it.
it should be open source hardware agnostic.
so dimauro agami stop trolling start working.

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TiredofLife 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 22-Feb-2024 17:50:47
#57 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1702
From: Here

I can't believe i'm having to explain this again.

Right, here goes.

Star Trek: The Original Series (1966-1969)
Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987-1994)
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (1993-1999)
Star Trek: Voyager (1995-2001)
Star Trek: Enterprise (2001-2005)
Star Trek: Discovery (2017-2024)
Short Treks (2018-2020)
Star Trek: Picard (2020-2023)
Star Trek: Prodigy (2021-Present)
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds (2022-Present)

So even though the second series is now old and newer series have been added repeatedly since then, it's still Star Trek NG.

Again, so there you have it, you can't argue with Star Trek and still consider yourself informed and sane.

Live long and prosper.

P.S I have left out the animated versions. No doubt some will want to start a flame war about what is real Star Trek and what isn't.

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cdimauro 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 22-Feb-2024 19:06:20
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3650
From: Germany

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
Amiga NG was real NG when it come about year 2000.
Amiga NG is Amiga that Commodore will made around year 2000 if exists.
But time passed and we need new NG 2.0 that will be real NG today.
from developer pov everything below mui should be cut off and replaced by unix.
Amiga NG 2.0 should be good open source mui clone.
Amiga NG 2.0 should be made by szulc, szonwejs, dimauro, agami, karlos and others
that waste time on attacks on ppc.
instead of wasting time on attacks on ppc,
szulc, szonwejs, dimauro, agami, karlos etc
should spend time on doing good open source mui clone then good rad for it
then new classes for it.
it should be open source hardware agnostic.
so dimauro agami stop trolling start working.





@TiredofLife: take a better look at the front image used in the article...

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TiredofLife 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 22-Feb-2024 19:28:42
#59 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1702
From: Here

@cdimauro

If your whole argument is based on an image, then look here.

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-klingons-versions-differences-explained/https://screenrant.com/star-trek-klingons-versions-differences-explained/

Last edited by TiredofLife on 22-Feb-2024 at 07:30 PM.
Last edited by TiredofLife on 22-Feb-2024 at 07:29 PM.
Last edited by TiredofLife on 22-Feb-2024 at 07:29 PM.

_________________
If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down.

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cdimauro 
Re: The non-existent “Amiga NG” systems
Posted on 22-Feb-2024 19:31:40
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3650
From: Germany

@TiredofLife

Quote:

TiredofLife wrote:
@cdimauro

If your whole argument is based on an image, then look here.

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-klingons-versions-differences-explained/https://screenrant.com/star-trek-klingons-versions-differences-explained/

The image was just part of the concept that I wanted to express.

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