As we all know Commodore bankrupt because AGA has not chunky pixels.
No chunky pixels no DOOM.
I found interesting movie on yt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kDM3S7gQTk

DOOM on Amiga CD32 with Fast RAM. Runs betten than on 386.
Amiga with 68020 Akiko and FAST RAM is good enough to run DOOM
better than on affordable PC 30 years ago.
Best proof that Commodore bankrupt because AGA was too slow and too outdated.
And should be replaced by something better.

I used to run GLOOM on my CD32 with SX-1 and 8MB of fast ram acceptably back in the 90's.

I still have the hardware but today these things are best done in emulation.

I won't make the mistake of selling it like I did with my C128DCR.

@ppcamiga1

Made up theory. It sold really well, that was never the reason and as proven Doom runs fine without that chip, allthough it requires a faster CPU which everyone upgraded too regardless.

Yeah I know that you thought that out some 30 years ago but it isn't, nor will it ever be, true.

These crazy people think that they can rewrite history but repeating lies to death. Which they do whenever they have commited a crime. When you listen to them telling the same stories over and over and over again that's always the reason. You wonder "it's so old, why do you still talk about it?" and that's why. They can never take responsibility for what they're doing so they feel like they have to for as long as they live.

On this site about Commodore, elsewhere about murder and other crimes. You here the same stories over and over again. You hear them so much that you wanna puke and it just continues even if you tell them "hey, you've said that like a million times, talk about something else?" they will annoyed and continue for ever...

They killed Commodore and this is what they came up with to blame it on.

People who used the Amiga bought it and used it regardless of Doom. The A1200 in particular sold really well which is also well known so those lies doesn't hold up.

Doesn't matter what anyone says though, they will continue lying for all eternity. That is really the only reason for them being here at all, that and to destroy what's left and therefor they should be banned.

@hotrod

Quote:

hotrod wrote: The A1200 in particular sold really well which is also well known so those lies doesn't hold up.

A1200 sales were a fraction of A500 sales in the years before.
A1200 sales were a fraction of what would have been needed for C= to survive (they had low margins).

This was in part due to C= not being able to make enough, but even when supplies were good in early 93 they remained in stock only to go out of stock when C= started to crumble later that year.

Overall the numbers were low and even lower for a game that needed FastRAM on the CD32 and FastRAM + HD on the A1200 both of which were still minorities by the time C= died.

Needing to do special ports in order to do C2P either in SW or special HW made those gameports a nonstarter.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: As we all know Commodore bankrupt because AGA has not chunky pixels. No chunky pixels no DOOM. I found interesting movie on yt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kDM3S7gQTk DOOM on Amiga CD32 with Fast RAM. Runs betten than on 386. Amiga with 68020 Akiko and FAST RAM is good enough to run DOOM better than on affordable PC 30 years ago. Best proof that Commodore bankrupt because AGA was too slow and too outdated. And should be replaced by something better.

False.

https://youtu.be/KQDEKoRcXZc?t=111
386DX-33 PC clone with ET4000 running Doom.

Amiga add-ons have uncompetitive costs due to weak economies of scale.

-----------

According to Dataquest November 1989, VGA crossed more than 50 percent market share in 1989 i.e. 56%.
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/components/dataquest/0005190_PC_Graphics_Chip_Sets--Product_Analysis_1989.pdf

Low-End PC Graphics Market Share by Standard Type
Estimated Worldwide History and Forecast

Total low-end PC graphic chipset shipment history and forecast
1987 = 9.2. million, VGA 16.4% market share i.e. 1.5088 million VGA.
1988 = 11.1 million, VGA 34.2% i.e. 1.51 million VGA.
1989 = 13.7 million, VGA 54.6% i.e. 3.80 million VGA.
1990 = 14.3 million, VGA 66.4% i.e. 9.50 million VGA.
1991 = 15.8 million, VGA 76.6% i.e. 12.10 million VGA.
1992 = 16.4 million, VGA 84.2% i.e. 13.81 million VGA.
1993 = 18.3 million, VGA 92.4% i.e. 16.9 million VGA.

The estimate for the Amiga AGA install base is about 600,000 units. PC VGA crushed the Amiga AGA.

https://dosdays.co.uk/topics/Manufacturers/tseng_labs.php
By 1991, according to IDC, Tseng Labs held a 25% market share in the total VGA market.

Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jun-2024 at 01:36 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jun-2024 at 01:34 PM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@Kronos

It wasn't on the market for as long, was it?

@Kronos

They gang up. It turns into competition to defend the lie to avoid reality and
responsibility.

This can go on forever. When you argue with a narc you can have documentet
proof at hand and they will still claim that they are right in whatever it's
that they want to be right in.

Put to the rest of the people, the normal people, everyone knows what's true,
always.

I'd like to point out that they have checked their lies regarding other things
here to see that yeah, they're lying but it won't make them change what they're
telling other and themselves because they can't stand feeling shame.

They are criminals and really shitty people.

When they are in a relationship they always cheat. Always. So they can come
home after they've just cheated and the first thing they do is to acuse their
partner of cheating, out of the blue. You'll be like "what?".

But same thing, allways doing shitty things, allways avoiding shame, every day.

So yeah, they're having a battle but it's pretty much about themselves.

Porting to x86, why it failed, attacking HunoPPC for porting Doom 3 to AOS 4,
it's all to avoid reality and to live in their fantasy to avoid shame.

They use a method called gaslighting (you can google it) which is them trying
to alter other peoples reality but they also use it on themselves to avoid
shame.

In short. Never listen to them, never talk to them and stay away from them.

All the bullying, you can find them at lemonamiga, EAB and what not doing the
same things.

They are the opposite of Amiga-ppl. Actually they nothing-ppl, they only care
about themselves and don't give a f*ck about anything or anyone else.

You have all witnessed these things, you can see the topics on this site etc.

Same ppl. Same reason.

I have been hearing stories like these and they're not even talking to you or
anyone, they're convincing themselves and offcourse it's practical if they can
make everyone else believe it too and alter reality to never, ever be held
responsible.

They can start wars because of that reason so there is no point in arguing but
it's good to know facts. This is how it is, move on. Then you don't have to
spend your life being confused over things and it becomes a lot easier.

They killed Commodore, end of story. They have even admitted that to me like I
wrote and it's so obvious.

But maybe it helps someone seeing them talking BS, I don't know. For the rest
though, don't mind anything they are saying. It is all defenses, making up
whatever suits them to avoid shame and responsibility.

Goes back to abuse in childhood.

They're not really human beings anymore. They are lost and driven by a few
things. Lack moral, empathy, do whatever crazy shit comes to mind for whatever
reason. Most of the times because of feelings connected to ego (contructed
concept in the brain) that is used to feed a made up character in their minds that they think they are. They have no identity. They litterarely commited
mental suicide in childhood. Lack remorse, lack most things really. They can't
feel any positive emotions unless it is about themselves. Which is pretty
much when they hurt or fool someone and feel superior, that feeds their ego
which keeps this fantasy-character "alive".

These are facts. You can allways be like "this is crazy", which is exactly what you think about their behaviour when you don't know. When you do know it's still crazy but then you have an explanation and you know that it's true because it makes sense.

There are allways weird behaviour and things they say that makes you wonder...

Oh and they allways play the victim. Or hero. They are neither. Victims are
everyone else. Hero? LOL, they are the most evil lowlifes there is. They never, ever do something for someone else, for the good of people. They are the most selfish ppl imaginable. It's all about them and their ego 100% of the time.

I don't talk to them, they will start to argue and it's pointless. It's more like info for the others. Them commiting crimes are the only reason for them
to be here at all. Yeah, and to compete with me, everything is always a competition to them. So if someone understands the truth they must compete. If someone likes me, they must compete. If...........

And it goes on and on and on.......

You will get crazy dealing with them. As soon as they are gone everything becomes sane again. They are called energy vampires for a reason. All the drama that they cause are draining and it's completely pointless and meaningless. Again it fees their ego and makes them feel powerfull when they can make others feel something, whatever that might be but not happiness. Because they are empty inside, they don't feel much at all.

@Hammer

600k might be true if you include ESCOM, which happened later.

@hotrod

Quote:

hotrod wrote: @Kronos It wasn't on the market for as long, was it?

And why would that matter?
200-300k of which only a small part would have had the RAM and HD needed to run it of which only a small part would have actually bought it.

With a bad outlook on top of that, so no it made little to no sense to invest into a super special Amiga port that might have worked o.k.

IF C= had given the A1200 an slightly better AA+ chipset and if they had shipped it with at least some fast RAM and a basic HD while still selling constant numbers (read not being on the bring of collapse the whole time)... yeah than such a port would have made economic sense.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

Regardless of what happened to Commodore, Amiga as we know it would have been killed by Internet, flat unprotected memory space would be hard to sell when all competition was moving to virtual memory space, memory protection and multiuser capabilities. Yes, we had MuFS, but its creator had already moved to Linux. Yes we had Aminix, but its creator had moved to NetBSD. And to make matters worse, Amiga had third party IP stack that was competing with the "official" one, and both were rapidly falling behind.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

DOOM on Amiga CD32 with Fast RAM. Runs betten than on 386. Amiga with 68020 Akiko and FAST RAM is good enough to run DOOM better than on affordable PC 30 years ago. Best proof that Commodore bankrupt because AGA was too slow and too outdated. And should be replaced by something better.

No Amiga desktop model has Akiko's "less-than-a-day job" C2P. Akiko integrated the function of Budgie, Gayle, and two CIA chips.

Amitech and Commodore Canada have A2200 clone with Akiko C2P https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=19
A2200-1 includes a CD32 board with an "Agent 88" board that restores most of A4000's functions.
CPU: 68EC020-14
Chipset: AGA+Akiko C2P
Memory: 2MB Fast RAM + 2 MB Chip RAM
Storage: 210 MB HDD
Price: $1199 USD or $1599 CDN (Canadian dollars)

A2200-2 includes
CPU: 68030 @ 40 Mhz
FPU: 68882 @ 40Mhz
Chipset: AGA+Akiko C2P
Memory: 4 MB Fast RAM + 2 MB Chip RAM
Storage: 420 MB HDD
Price: $1599 USD or $2129 CDN (Canadian dollars)

Money values in Australian dollars are usually 30% weaker than the US dollar. The Australian dollar is close to the Canadian dollar.

https://archive.org/details/Australian_Commodore_and_Amiga_Review_The_Volume_10_Issue_10_1993-10_Saturday_Magazine_AU/page/n3/mode/2up
Australian Commodore and Amiga Review, October 1993.

Page 4 of 84
A1200 barebone = $799
A1200 with 40 MB HDD = $995 AUD
A1200 with 85 MB HDD = $1349 AUD
A1200 RAM card with 0 MB = $249 AUD
From Western Australia state.

Page 12 of 84
GVP A1230 030 with No Co-Pro and 0 MB RAM =$ 876
GVP A1230/030 & 68882 40Mhz with 4 MB RAM = $1176

Page 42 of 84
GVP A1200 SCSI with 4 MB RAM = $895
GVP A1200/030 at 40 Mhz and 4MB RAM = $1195.00

A1200 with 40 MB HDD + GVP A1200 SCSI with 4 MB RAM = $1,871

Page 56 of 84
Phase 5 Blizzard A1200/4 with 4MB RAM and clock = $499

A1200 with 40 MB HDD + Blizzard A1200/4 (4MB RAM card) = $1,494.
A1200 with 85 MB HDD + Blizzard A1200/4 (4MB RAM card) = $1,848.

Page 64 of 84
Seagate 2.5 inch, 128 MB IDE = $245.

A1200 barebone + Blizzard A1200/4 (4MB RAM card) + Seagate 128 MB HDD = $1,543
Monitor not included.

VS

June 1992's PC i386DX-33 or Am386DX-40
https://i.ibb.co/mTtzsP8/386-DX-PC-prices-June-1992.png
386-DX 33-based PC = $1335
386-DX 40-based PC = $1320
includes, 1 Mb 80 ns RAM, 1.44 FDD, 512 KB SVGA card, SVGA monitor, AT I/O(2 serial, 1 lpt, 1 gameport), keyboard, baby AT case, 200W PSU

Trident 512 KB = $99
TLab SVGA = $181
SoundBlaster Pro = $340
Three 1 MB SIMM = 171

Total: $1,912 + 130 MB HDD for $305

Sep 1993
https://i.ibb.co/jV4T43L/1993-QLD-PC-price-list-example.png
486SX-33 based PC for $1545
include 4MB RAM, 1.44 FDD, 130 MB HDD, 512KB SVGA card, SVGA monitor, 2 serial, 1 lpt, 1 gameport, desktop case, 101 keyboard and mouse.

add
TLab SVGA = $181
SoundBlaster Pro = $340
minus 512KB SVGA card which is about $50 to $99
Total: $2,016

512KB SVGA card,

130 MB HDD for $305
245 MB HDD for $420
345 MB HDD for $599

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: @Hammer 600k might be true if you include ESCOM, which happened later.

AGA Amiga install base
Germany:
Amiga 1200 = 95,500
Amiga CD32 = 25,000
Amiga 4000/030 = 7,500
Amiga 4000/040 = 3,800
Sub-total: 131,800

https://web.archive.org/web/20230726021525/http://www.bambi-amiga.co.uk/amigahistory/sales.html

UK:
Amiga 1200 (Oct - Dec 1992) = 44,000 (Amiga Format May 1993)
Amiga 1200 (Jan - Aug 1993) = 100,000 (Amiga Format September 1993)
Amiga 1200 (Xmas 1993) = 160,000 (Amiga Format 56 Feb 1994)
Amiga CD32 (Xmas 1993) = 70,000 (Amiga Format 56 Feb 1994)
Sub-total: 374,000

UK didn't show it's A4000 sales.

AGA install base from Amiga's strongest markets: 505,800.

Amiga 2200 clone (based on CD32), https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=19
65,000 CD32 motherboards assigned to Amitech's Amiga 2200.

Potential AGA install base: 570,800 units.

Unknown AGA sales numbers for Canada and the USA.

There's another 20,000 A1200 from Escom.

Last edited by Hammer on 11-Jun-2024 at 02:52 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @ppcamiga1 Quote: ppcamiga1 wrote:.. DOOM on Amiga CD32 with Fast RAM. Runs betten than on 386. Amiga with 68020 Akiko and FAST RAM is good enough to run DOOM better than on affordable PC 30 years ago... False.

He said 'affordable'. A CD32 with Paravision SX-1 and 4 MB FastRAM only cost US$683. That's affordable. Typical price for a low-end PC in 1994 was ~$1300, about twice the price. The cheapest I could find in PC World magazine was a 486DLC-33 for US$969, but that didn't include a sound card (and of course the video card model wasn't specified).

One might have thought that by 1994 a 386SX PC would be as cheap as an equivalent A1200 or CD32 system, but of course that's not how it worked. All the other stuff (case/motherboard/RAM/cards/monitor/keyboard etc.) cost about the same no matter what CPU it had, so manufacturers just dropped the 386 and went to 486 (though the 486SLC was really a 386). So people who couldn't a PC in 1992 still couldn't afford one in 1994.

@bhabbott

Quote:

He said 'affordable'. A CD32 with Paravision SX-1 and 4 MB FastRAM only cost US$683. That's affordable. Typical price for a low-end PC in 1994 was ~$1300, about twice the price. The cheapest I could find in PC World magazine was a 486DLC-33 for US$969, but that didn't include a sound card (and of course the video card model wasn't specified).

Paravision SX-1 was released in 1994.

https://archive.org/details/amiga-world-1995-03/page/n41/mode/2up
Page 42 of 72, Amiga World March 1995
CD32 = $299 (back in stock)
SX1 = $229

https://archive.org/details/pcmagazine-v13n17/page/n395/mode/2up
Page 396 of 496
4MB 9-70ns SIMM = $144

Total: $672

SX1 Keyboard is $44

-----------------------------


https://archive.org/details/pcmagazine-v13n17/page/444/mode/2up
PC Magazine Oct 11 1994,
Page 408 of 496
Basic system = 1MB RAM, 1.44 MB FDD, PSU, 101 Key, IDE 2HD/2FD controller, 2 serial, 1 lpt, 1 game port and case.

486SX-25 with motherboard and basic system = $268

Add
SoundBlaster Pro = $78
Diamond Speed Star Pro VLB / ISA (Cirrus Logic 5426) = $94
212 MB HDD = $160

Sub-Total: $600

Page 396 for SIMM
1MB 70 ns = $43

Total: $729

Alternative add
SoundBlaster Value edition = $56
Diamond Speed Star Pro VLB / ISA (Cirrus Logic 5426) = $94
212 MB HDD = $160
Total: $707

Cheaper with a 386DX-40-based system.
----------------------

PS; Q4 1994 is the release of PS1 in Japan, hence PCs should be moving towards Pentium class by late 1995.

Last edited by Hammer on 11-Jun-2024 at 04:58 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 11-Jun-2024 at 04:56 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 11-Jun-2024 at 04:54 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 11-Jun-2024 at 04:53 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 11-Jun-2024 at 04:51 PM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

As we all know Commodore bankrupt because AGA has not chunky pixels.

They'd have gone bankrupt even if AGA had included chunky modes.

They had a number of problems that soon would be coming home to roost.

The CDTV was an absolute disaster, a combination of a high price, badly targeted marketing and the fact that the tech just wasn't there yet for a home entertainment appliance. Commodore expected to sell 50,000 in the UK alone by the end of 1991, The reality was closer to 6,000, and from there it was a roller coaster ride of price cuts.
The A570 CD drive which was released after the A500+ was discontinued didn't do any better and was similarity price cut to the point where it could be bought for less than Commodore had paid to produce it.

Bill Sydnes becoming VP of engineering and scrapping the A3000+ (which first booted in Fen '91) and refocusing from AGA to further ECS based systems. He turned the mid range A1000+ AGA design into the ECS based A2200 and rather than admit that he screwed up on the A300 brief, he instead renamed it A600 which would now replace the A500+. Now their best selling Amiga was seeing price cuts to shift stock to make way for it's totally unnecessary replacement, resulting in further loss of revenue.

By the time the AGA machines arrived, Commodore was already treading water.

Last edited by Rob on 13-Jun-2024 at 12:01 AM.

@Rob

He only ever works with anecdotal evidence: If all the people who bought a PC in very late 1993 and through 1994 because of Doom, instead bought an A1200 with proper AA+ incl. chunky, then the sales would buy C= enough time to make it to Doom II.Then sales from that would buy enough time to make it to Quake, and so on.

The problem is, even if Commodore somehow managed to get out of its own way and released what would have been the quintessential gaming computer of 1993, most Americans would still have bought an IBM-compatible PC or even an Apple Mac, for all the other reasons they'd want a computer beyond just playing Doom.

Where it's not uncommon today for gamers to have multiple console platforms plus a gaming PC, in 1993 there were extremely few people who would have more than one distinct computer platform, even in America.

The vast majority of people that rushed to buy a PC after seeing Doom were already thinking of buying a PC and Doom was simply the catalyst. They were never going to buy an Amiga.

Last edited by agami on 13-Jun-2024 at 04:28 AM.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@agami

A600's release and A500's cancellation were a major debacle and Commodore couldn't recover from this mortal financial blow.

Commodore UK's AGA sales reached near the A500's golden era sale rate, but other Commodore subsidiaries didn't reach this level. Commodore Germany is second best.

Commodore Canada had ordered 65,000 CD32 boards for Amitech's A2200 clone, but this allocation was locked up in the Philippines warehouse. Certain posters claimed 100,000 CD32 boards were manufactured and locked up in the Philippines warehouse.

With the Philippines warehouse being locked up, most remaining Commodore subsidiaries couldn't trade in 1994. The remaining Commodore subsidiaries couldn't trade their way out of a pickle.


During 1993, there was a price and performance gap between A1200 and A4000/030. A4000/030 wasn't price-competitive against $1000 USD range 486SX-33 based PC.


Amitech's A2200 (with AGA+Akiko C2P) clone configuration 2 with 68030/68882 @ 40 Mhz) and USD $1599 price beats similarly priced A4000 with 68030/68882 @ 25 Mhz.

A4000 = Made in Germany.
A2200 clone = Made in Canada with Made in Philippines CD32 card.

Escom's PC motherboards are Far East manufactured.
--------------



https://vintageapple.org/pcworld/pdf/PC_World_9306_June_1993.pdf
Gateway Party List, Page 72 of 314

4SX-33 with 486-SX 33Mhz, 4MB RAM, 170 MB HDD, Windows Video accelerator 1MB video DRAM, 14-inch monitor for $1494,

4DX-33 with 486-DX 33Mhz, 8MB RAM, 212 MB HDD, Windows Video accelerator 1MB video DRAM, 14-inch monitor for $1895,

Page 128 of 314
Polywell Poly 486-33V with 486SX-33, 4MB of RAM, SVGA 1MB VL-Bus, price: $1250


https://vintageapple.org/pcworld/pdf/PC_World_9308_August_1993.pdf
Gateway Party List, Page 62 of 324

4SX-33 with 486-SX 33Mhz, 4MB RAM, 212MB HDD, Windows Video accelerator 1MB video DRAM, 14-inch monitor for $1495,

4DX-33 with 486-DX 33Mhz, 8MB RAM, 212 MB HDD, Windows Video accelerator 1MB video DRAM, 14-inch monitor for $1795,

Remember Gateway 2000?

Page 292 of 324
From Comtrade
VESA Local Bus WinMax with 32-Bit VL-Bus Video Accelerator 1MB, 486DX2 66 Mhz, 210 MB HDD, 4MB RAM, Price: $1795



https://vintageapple.org/pcworld/pdf/PC_World_9310_October_1993.pdf
October 1993, Page 13 of 354,
ALR Inc, Model 1 has a Pentium 60-based PC for $2495.



https://archive.org/details/amiga-world-1993-10/page/n7/mode/2up
Amigaworld, October 1993, Page 66 of 104
Amiga 4000/040 @ 25Mhz for $2299 (WTF? price close to a Pentium PC clone?)
Amiga 4000/030 @ 25Mhz for $1599


Page 82 of 104
M1230X's 68030 @ 50Mhz has $349
1942 Monitor has $389
A1200 with 85MB HDD has $624
A1200 with 130MB HDD has $724

The Commodore solution is beaten by the Gateway 2000's solution.


Target sales period: XMas of 1993 Q4. The 1993 XMas sales period was Commodore's last chance.

There's a major Motorola cost factor beyond 25 Mhz 68030.

https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2013/04/102723262-05-01-acc.pdf
Page 119 of 981

For 1992
68000-12 = $5.5
68EC020-16 PQFP = $16.06, it's $15 in 1993 Q1.
68EC020-25 PQFP = $19.99, it's $18 in 1993 Q1.

68EC030-25 PQFP = $35.94,
68030-25 CQFP = $108.75, Uncompetitive pricing against AM386-40 with MMU!

68040-25 = $418.52, Uncompetitive pricing against 486DX-33.
68EC040-25 = $112.50, Not functional for DMA'ed equipped desktop 68K computers and not competitive against Intel's 486SX-20 with MMU! For desktop computers, Intel's 486SX-20 is functional with DMA'ed devices.
---
Competition

AM386-40 = $102.50
386DX-25 PQFP = $103.00

486SX-20 PQFP = $157.75
486DX-33 = $376.75
486DX2-50 = $502.75

X86 world's mass MMU deployment allowed memory-protected OS to be mass deployed on the PC platform. Motorola's policy of putting a price premium on MMU has bitten them in the ass in the handheld market e.g. ARM9T (e.g. ARM925T with MMU displaced 68000 based Dragon Ball VZ).

BOM cost for 68040-25 and 68EC040-25 is the same since they use the same chips, hence the problem is Motorola's pricing policy. Note why many Unix vendors have exited Motorola 68K!

Motorola camp has planned to fail.

Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jun-2024 at 06:03 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jun-2024 at 06:01 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jun-2024 at 05:54 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jun-2024 at 05:53 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jun-2024 at 05:41 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jun-2024 at 05:38 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: Regardless of what happened to Commodore, Amiga as we know it would have been killed by Internet, flat unprotected memory space would be hard to sell when all competition was moving to virtual memory space, memory protection and multiuser capabilities. Yes, we had MuFS, but its creator had already moved to Linux. Yes we had Aminix, but its creator had moved to NetBSD. And to make matters worse, Amiga had third party IP stack that was competing with the "official" one, and both were rapidly falling behind.

For the Internet during my university years, I was using 1996-to-1997-era PowerPC-based desktop Macs with MacOS 7.5.x and 8.x along with Netscape 4.x.

For example https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_performa/specs/mac_performa_6260cd.html

Outside subject course times, PowerPC Mac labs are usually empty which is different from higher demand Windows NT 4.0 Pentium 133/166/200 (with either 3DLabs Premedia 2, NVIDIA RiVA 128 OpenGL) labs.

MacOS 8.x has a very limited memory protection.

My university has DEC Alpha labs (dual boot Windows NT 4.0 Alpha Edition, DEC VMX/X Window), Pentium clones (dual boot Windows NT 4.0, Linux X86), PowerPC Macs (MacOS 7.6 or 8.x).

Novell Netware unifies the university's network and logins.

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Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: For the Internet during my university years, I was using 1996-to-1997-era PowerPC-based desktop Macs with MacOS 7.5.x and 8.x along with Netscape 4.x. ... MacOS 8.x has a very limited memory protection.

Indeed. Hence Apple was dabbling with alternatives... you know what I did for summer job at university in 1996? Installing mkLinux - remember mkLinux? And for that matter, remember Apple/UX and Copland? People at Apple knew very well they were up shit creek when it came to OS, and that they needed a rescue.

Amiga had "Amix", but no real plans for it, instead (apparently) they were going with WinNT for the "next generation" PA-RISC based Amiga.

Quote:

My university has DEC Alpha labs (dual boot Windows NT 4.0 Alpha Edition, DEC VMX/X Window), Pentium clones (dual boot Windows NT 4.0, Linux X86), PowerPC Macs (MacOS 7.6 or 8.x).

Same, DEC Alphas with WinNT, OpenVMS (which I presume what you mean with "VMX/X Window"?) and Tru64 aka OSF/1. Then SparcStation labs with Solaris, and SGI labs with tonloads of Indy's with Irix. Me installing mkLinux on the "mac lab" machines with dual-boot option was parallel to many PC labs already dual-booting Win95 and Linux... having Linux on the PowerMacs brought them into the common regime for all *ix systems. MacOS and Windows on student labs were frequently "reinstalled" by wipe, format and unpack from Linux.

Quote:

Novell Netware unifies the university's network and logins.

Luckily I got spared for that - IP, DECNet, AppleTalk, NetBIOS... but not netware :)

Last edited by kolla on 13-Jun-2024 at 11:41 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 13-Jun-2024 at 10:46 AM.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@agami

agami is well known ng hater and x86 aros user
that try to payback us better amiga users for no switch to pc
so eveything what agami wrote is pure bs

@Rob

DOOM on 020 plus akiko plus FAST runs better than affordable 386 in 1994.
If AGA has chunky pixel Commodore will not bankrupt in 1994.
I remember when 30 years ago I try to made some decent games on 1200.
So much time and work and nothing worth sell.
This DOOM on 020 plus akiko plus FAST is absolutely wonderfull.
This DOOM show what is possible on 1200 with proper graphics.