I'm really interested in a Complete IDE for OS4...

I have checkout the AutoDoc viewer and was pleasent supriced over the quality of program, if the rest of the project is just as good its gonna be a killer App.

Paying $200 for the complete Suite is a little much in one go, so I singed up to be a sponsor and I'm planning to stay aleast tell I get a full copy or the project is dead (hope it woun't come to that)

RWO

_________________
Debugging is a state of mind

Just signed up.

Thanks Jamie.

What is meant by "visual development tools"?

Quote:

What is meant by "visual development tools"?

Primarily, "visual" in this case refers to programming environments
which allow you to use graphical interface based applications
and simple "point and click" and "drag and drop" programming
techniques to assemble complete programs.

If that sounds a lot like trading one buzz-word for another, (or
in fact several), just think of it like this:

1.) You can design your own GUIs (Graphical User Interfaces)
for your application using an easy to use program, with no
prior knowledge Intuition/ReAction programming.

FREEAVD will write the code for you.

2.) You can connect your application's GUI to program actions,
operating system library calls, or even you own C functions,
again using simple "point and click" interfaces.

FREEAVD will write and or glue your actions together for you.

3.) You can build your program into a final runtime executable
by the press of a button.

FREEAVD with write and manage the Makefiles and GCC build
commands for you.

This is just a small taste of what this software is targeted to do,
but in every case the idea is that all the pieces that make up writing
an application for AmigaOS4(tm) are created and maintained via a
"Visual" suite of tools. You should be able to do everything through
the software and not be forced to switch out of it to do some step
via the command line (shell).

Please take a look at the AVD Suite for an example of what to expect:
www.bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com/avd/

I hope this answers your question.

Best Regards,
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

I wish Bit-by-Bit all the best in their endeavours.

However, I do have some words of advice:
Do not try to emulate any of the IDEs that have gone before, especially any from Linux or MicroSoft.
Get a copy of the "Amiga User Interface Style Guide" and stick to their recommendations.

I've used Qt Designer (linux), VisualBasic 6 (Microsoft) and both have serious design flaws in their GUIs.
I've also used several attempts by various programmers to implement IDEs on the Amiga platform.
ClassAct, Reactor and StormC were badly done, because they tried to emulate VisualBasic as far as I could tell.

I myself have written several programs that are designed to make programming on the Amiga platform easier, such as ProgrammerAssistPPC, RoboDocBuilderPPC, GTBTranslatorPPC, so I know that something like FreeAVD is needed for the Amiga.

Two pieces of software that got it right for the Amiga were CanDo! and GadToolsBox.
GadToolsBox only created the code for the GUI, whereas CanDo! could create an entire standalone
application. Unfortunately, Innovatronics went out fo business, so CanDo! is no longer published or
updated.

I really hate how some programs written for running under Windows seem to think that countless
options, menu selections and screens full of buttons are somehow going to make their program
more useful to the User. This so-called "Feature-Rich" mentality just means more confusion
and a steeper learning curve for anyone using such a program. Also unfortunately, a log of programs
written for Linux seem to think that by following Windows programmers' lead that they will somehow
make programs that make Windows Users want to run to the Linux sphere.

One of the things that make the Amiga unique has been the SIMPLICITY of the OS and the programs
that run on it. Remember to keep it simple please.

_________________

jamie: hope to see more pictures and info about the AVD etc soon.

ps:yes i will sign up too for this new one

_________________
See my blog and collection website! . https://www.blog.amigaguru.com

Great :) I think that word sums it up for me.... This kind of software is needed.

_________________

I'm sure that there is no chance of it, but it would be nice if some of the AVD suite worked on classic Amigas (and under emulation), because of the difficulty of obtaining OS4 hardware. As it is, I think that AmiDevCpp is the only thing which can compile OS4 PPC binaries on another platform (in this case Windows).

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

chrisH: regarding HARDWARE there wont be a problem when AVD is in final stages for sure...or maybe not but i'd rather not hear about theese HW discussions every time .

_________________
See my blog and collection website! . https://www.blog.amigaguru.com

Will there be MOS or even better AROS version? I read on your site that you are aiming it only to OS4, but i am way too pesimistic for A1 and i am not going to buy one.

_________________
May the force be with you...

I am already signed up to your scheme, but I will make another donation.

TrevorDick

_________________
No, I don't need no reason, I'm just breezin'

Jamie,

How is the business doing? I surely hope for all the best for you and your venture.

_________________

trevor:but this is another scheme it seems.

i finished the old one some time ago so i just started this new one as its worth it imo.

_________________
See my blog and collection website! . https://www.blog.amigaguru.com

Ok, one more sponsor.

Come on guys, we need a few more.

_________________
A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

Great idea!


I think it's really nice to see a company/developer with both a good idea and a business plan.

I'm not a developer myself but I might make a donation when I get my Paypal account in order (got problems with my password).

Someone should adapt this way of doing business for a browser project (Marcik..?).

Best regards
Troels

_________________

@stychokiller

I could not agree with you more, especially on this point:
Quote:

I really hate how some programs written for running under Windows seem to think that countless options, menu selections and screens full of buttons are somehow going to make their program more useful to the User. This so-called "Feature-Rich" mentality just means more confusion and a steeper learning curve for anyone using such a program. Also unfortunately, a log of programs written for Linux seem to think that by following Windows programmers' lead that they will somehow make programs that make Windows Users want to run to the Linux sphere.

I am striving to create development tools that respond, feel and flow like
a true Amiga program should. Having used most of the environments you
mentioned myself, I have also seen some horrible design issues with most
of them. I will try hard not to inherit their mistakes, and keep AVD and FREEAVD
distinctly "Amiga" applications.

As far as the "Amiga User Interface Style Guide" goes, I would love to get
another copy, especially now. I have located nearly two complete sets of
the RKRMs (3rd Edition), but no Style Guide among them.
I'm sure I lost it somewhere along the line.

Anyway, I have located 3 used copies on amazon.com for around $20.00 and one
*new* one for like $51.00. I will most likely place an order for a used one from there
unless someone here has a better line on getting a copy to me in the USA.

Best Regards,

Jamie

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

@Toaks

Thanks again Toaks for the continued support.

Quote:

jamie: hope to see more pictures and info about the AVD etc soon.

I'll see what I can do about getting a further AVD update
out there soon as well.

Best Regards,

Jamie

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

@JamieKrueger

First of all, I have a lot of respect for your dedication, and judging by various comments I heard so far, the quality of your work is pretty good aswell.

But I don't think this going to work, and I even have some doubts about your approach.

You're basically asking the community to pay you a monthly salary of $3000 for working on AVD. You don't specify any estimated release dates (a rather important detail, even if if it's very hard to predict), but lets say it will take you 12 months to finish AVD 1.0. In that case, the sponsors would have to pay $36000 upfront - that's quite a lot of money for such a tiny comunity. Mozilla and KHTML, both projects way more important for the average user, managed to collect 'only' $12000 and $4000.

You're the only person working on a visual development studio - there are way too much things that could go wrong, delay the release etc. The whole thing is way to risky and way to expensive for my taste.

Additionally, if your approach works (i.e. you get enough funding) one could describe your relationship to your sponsors as "JamieKrueger was hired by the community do develop AVD". In a traditional employee/employer relationship, the employer owns the employee's creation afterwards. But in this case, you get paid upfront to create AVD and you're going to be the owner of the IP created during the time you've been paid. This strikes me as somewhat odd.

Sorry for being negative, I'd rather support the noble cause of creating an IDE that meets today's requirements and is taylor-made for AmigaOS, but there are way too many questions and stumbling blocks involved for my taste.

@cgutjahr

Hmm, ok, but i don't see it like that.

If i would donate or buy a full version it would cost me maybe 200 $.

So if i sponsor now 200 $ and then deside to stop the sponsoring,
it would be the same thing, just that i helped Jamie out "now".

Btw. i do not think he wil gather 3000 $ a month in this tiny community.

_________________
A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

@ChrisH

Well, AmiDevCpp ist not the only solution to develop programs for AOS4 on other hardware.
There is a eclipse plugin amigatd in combination with cross compilers is a pratical
solution.

But to be able to use it you need to take the version from the repository, or email me in PM to aks for a jared version (Is still in developement).

regards

Max