I am going to buy a ps3 anyway. My PS2 had it's time and it looks a worthy successor.
And it would be nice when OS4 runs on it... 2 flies in 1 catch, maybe even 3. Gamingmachine, mediacenter and enough power to run OS4

_________________
- Proud Member Of The Belgian Amigaclub Since 2003 -

The Belgian Amiga Club on FACEBOOK !

The Belgian Amiga Club Website

Quote:

ATM OS4 uses 800Mhz cpus with a 133Mhz bus. Even if we ran the current code on CELL without recompiling it would run *faster*. And next apps can be compiled ordering the instructions to suit the CELL better.

A simple re-compile isn't magically going to make code run quickly on the Cell. This isn't like adapting to AltiVec or SSE, where a smart compiler can look for bits of code that can benefit from use of the new instructions. The Cell design requires re-architecting of code, not just recompiling or a few little tweaks - and for the majority of code that's simply not going to happen. In a lot of cases it's not even possible due to the structure of the actual task being done.

Look at how poorly current compilers take advantage of dual-core processors. The job of taking non-optimised source and producing object code that splits between two identical cores is pretty much beyond current compiler technology. Now think about how they'll do trying to produce code for a CPU that has one flexible but slow core and 7 fast 'mini-me' cores that don't use the same instruction set and can only communicate with the main core via DMA.

I suspect the best hope for good performance on the Cell is going to be via the use of optimised system libraries. But there's a limit to how much speed can be gained by going that route. Will it be faster than an 800MHz G4? Yes it will, but it doubt it'll be troubling even the cheapest, nastiest of x86 processors. Or a 1.5GHz G4 for that matter.

_________________
Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

Maybe I'm daft as well but cheap, powerful, mainstream and up to date hardware is available with x86 boxes.

When it came to making the OS available for the PC the argument was always that the platform would be sacrificing its spirit, that people would suddenly discover Windows (duh) and the Amiga would wither away to an anecdote.

Apple has proven that consumers buy products, not processors.

I'm not saying that making the OS available on a PS3 is a bad thing (the goal apparently is to make it ubiquitous) but for general purpose use this is a tough sell. And who would really benefit the most from this?

OS4 runs fine in term of speed on 800Mhz, so a bit faster is the same as much faster, except when talking about making MP3s or something.

I'm having trouble understanding why anyone is against OS4 on PS3

_________________
Rage quited 29th May 2011

@DrBombcrater

Quote:

Now think about how they'll do trying to produce code for a CPU that has one flexible but slow core and 7 fast 'mini-me' cores that don't use the same instruction set and can only communicate with the main core via DMA.

I don't now much about the Playstation 3 architecture, but a quick google search suggest a not too shabby 2.8 Ghz core speed.
Does the Cell lack a lot of PowerPC op codes that would be used a lot in OS4.

@ne_one

Quote:

Apple has proven that consumers buy products, not processors.

Remember that MacOS X does not run on any x86 box, just the Apple-branded ones. They have chips on the motherboard and code in the OS, for the single purpose of preventing MacOS from running on anything other than their boxes. One of the main reasons for this is to reduce the workload of providing drivers for anything one might plug into the box. Looking at older posts here at how much noise was made because the A1XE has a "dongle ROM" for OS4, I very much doubt that we'd be having a different discussion right now even if OS4 ran on x86 boxes.

I have also trouble understanding that... what's to loose ? I am sure that when OS4 runs on that kind of hardware a lot of "new blood" would enter here.

_________________
- Proud Member Of The Belgian Amigaclub Since 2003 -

The Belgian Amiga Club on FACEBOOK !

The Belgian Amiga Club Website

*yawn* No amiga content here....

Quote:

I wonder if Mc Ewen has tried to contact Sony to jump into this opportunity. I hope he tried. IF OS4 will be ship with PS3, imagine how many millions of copies they can sell. Hyperion and Amiga Inc. cannot loose this opportunity!

Stop the insanity.

Do you really think Sony would ALLOW OS4 to _ship_ with the PS3, even for free (versus a 'license fee'?) They would be typing their name to the 'quality' of anything shipped with it. THis isn't 'against' OS4, but that would take quite a bit of work to give Sony satisfaction, and unlikely IMO to allow a product with a mostly volunteer QA team, etc...anyways, wanna bet $ it won't happen? (ship with PS3)

I'd love to see OS4 on PS3, but I expcet it would happen being sold as an 'application,' if at all.

Last edited by wegster on 17-Oct-2006 at 09:12 PM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

Quote:

If we talk about *NEW* code compiled for the CELL cpu the speed will be similar.

Alias Cloth Technology Demonstration for the Cell Processor requires a program structure changes not just a recompile.

Experience from Itanium shouldn’t be applied for Cell since Itanium has
1. large on-chip cache.
2. competitive (against mainline X64 archs) branch predication units.
3. short pipeline depth.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

Quote:

ATM OS4 uses 800Mhz cpus with a 133Mhz bus. Even if we ran the current code on CELL without recompiling it would run *faster*. And next apps can be compiled ordering the instructions to suit the CELL better.

Not with VMX complied (with program structure changes) Alias Cloth simulation demo i.e. barely 10 percent of Pentium IV 3.2Ghz. SPU usage is a must for Cell Broadband Engine Architecture.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@hammer & bombcrater

Quote:

Alias Cloth Technology Demonstration for the Cell Processor requires a program structure changes not just a recompile.

Very nice. There's almost no software for OS4 that uses Altivec, it's mostly scalar one.

I'm not talking about a compiler that "magically" starts to use al SPEs, but simply recompiling the current code so instructions are ordered correctly.

What application you plan to run on OS4 that would run slow? The farting button? IBrowse? YAM? Come on, these apps already ran quite fast with a 060/50Mhz, don't tell me that a CELL will be worse than a 800¤ ArticiaS+G4. I don't believe that it's going to be slower than a DiscoveryII+G4/1Ghz either.

With a memory bus so much faster than old articiaS+g3 or g4??? Even if current apps ran at the speed of a 800Mhz G3 it would be fine for most of people, because demanding apps like video players can be rewritten to take advantage of CELL.


People don't waste 800¤ just to play SDL game ports. But people can waste 80¤ to try out OS4 on their recently bought PSX3.

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

How is this AmigaOne news? I really don't understand. The PS3 is not an AmigaOne, it is a PlayStation, even if OS4 was to be ported to it, by the time it is achieved the PS4 will probably be hitting the shelves anyway. If hyperion have time and money and feel it is worthwhile I'm sure they will but in the meantime just forget about it.

I can't see why people would object to OS4 being available for a PS3, although I can understand some concerns about it shipping with it. (Fat chance of that anyway. )

According to some speculation I saw, Sony were semi-keen to allow home-developed software (freeware/shareware, using their DevKit) on the Playstation. ISTR they tried something on the PS2 but it never really took off. It is notable that Hyperion rarely comment on these OS4-on-PS3 threads, which probably means they consider the whole idea to be idiotic. However, I do wonder whether the licensing model would have more room to manouver if OS4 were released in such a way as to be commercially for "Amiga computers" but also happened to have a binaries that ran on PS3. I doubt there have been large license payments to Sony to have Yellow Dog on PS3. And half the point of Linux is that various Open Source stuff can be compiled to run it anyway, which would be outside Sony's control.

There has to be some realism though. OS4 on PS3 would just be purely to provide a hardware platform. Hoping it will outperform high-end PC's by magically using all the SPE's is just silly. As someone said above, if an outdated 800MHz PPC board runs OS4 fine, then a couple-of-GHz POWER-series chip will do just fine too. At half the price.

Gee, does anyone here think that people might possibly be buying a PS3 primarily to play games?

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

@ jorkany

Yes, the same goes for the Amiga CD32. But still some people upgraded it to a fully functional homecomputer.

@jorkany

of course, but *some* of the existing amiga users or ex-amiga users who played lots of games may buy an OS4 CD if it was released.

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@jorkany

Of course. If I buy a PS3 it will be for games. And maybe other things if the system supports it.

However, if OS4 comes out for it (and it's a half sensible price) I WILL buy it too. Otherwise my purchase of OS4 (which I think is a fine and promising product) is likely to be long delayed and perhaps never happen, like the overpriced hardware it currently runs on.

I don't see why some would NOT welcome an OS4 port for the PS3.
Whether you like consoles or not the PS3 is going to be available pretty much everywhere for the next years. Not exactly what we're used to in regards to hardware.

I may not be the ideal desktop computer but neither is the Ua1 or some of the upcoming boards.

The PS3 may not exel in expandability but it will in AVAILability and that is quite important in our tiny market. We simply can't afford to lose any more users because of the hardware situation and with an OS4+ version for PS3 atleast some hardware will be guaranteed to be available.

Hyperion please make this possible!

_________________

Quote:

i don't want os4 on ps3. i hate console and i'll hate ever and ever..

The announcement shocked me. I had no intention of getting a PS3 at all, but as YDL is my favourite Linux distribution, it will be worth taking a look. It would be crazy not to have OS4 running on something mass produced in such numbers. Personally, I think the forbid()/permit() issue has to be addressed first in order to get SMP working under OS4 before any decent level of performance would be obtained by using the CELL chip.

Adam

@ackcontrls

Quote:

Personally, I think the forbid()/permit() issue has to be addressed first in order to get SMP working under OS4 before any decent level of performance would be obtained by using the CELL chip.

I wouldn't mind seeing a "pre-release" for PSX3 even if it didn't take full advantage of the CELL chip. First OS4 pre-releases were published without important stuff like DMA on IDE drives or Overlay support so I guess I could live with it

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ