@mcb

long posts = too much spare time, imho

I won't discuss any further about the subject, you'll never understand anyway (closed as you are into your own magic world...)

Just one thing: Horde was not announced at BP. You can ask everybody in the scene: it's something planned long before...but you will never see this either.

So have a nice life and best luck for everything! Bye!

As it's getting very personal and slightly offensive here, we'd like [and *I* would like] to clarify again some things.

We were in charge for the demoscene-related section of codex alpe adria past years. We should have been in charge this year too [same date planned indeed, as it was right the SAME event], so we actively worked to promote our small demoscene event [to be held within the 0xaa like past years] to the whole world.

Sadly, we got kicked and replaced with no further notice and eventually discovered it little before the event. We haven't been contacted, unless you consider mass rant emailing a few days before the event a kind of 'contact'.

We solved the issue of being 'kicked and replaced' by trying to find out what to do and talking to the people that should have organised the demoscene section [which was our own small event and originally introduced by us, not 0xaa's one, beware] and they quite got surprised about how things were going on. Eventually, after long talkings aimed to find some good solution, they gave up as organizers/supporters because, really, the demoscene went on with us and 0xaa was related to other topics -not the scene- plus at that point it was quite clear something fishy was going on.

If you [all] want to debate about it, you're welcome; I clearly said what I think about it via email to mr mcb back then, and I think this is not the right place for any drama, innit?

We have been very kind, if you ask me. We didn't mention the 'accident' on our official website, not to put Codex in a bad situation and let its bad reputation grow some more because of this. It already quite wasn't really considered well [taking advantage of other people's work and claiming it as theirs wasn't really a good move] and we thought about not increasing the factor by spreading these info. Until now, really, because taking into account this latest comment I don't really feel it was worth it.

Please, also notice that any reference to us as organizers for past years has drammatically been deleted from 0xaa's website. And yes, I have screenshots that prove it too. Wanna see? Feel free to ask, I'll check my files and put them online for your pleasure. 'Before' and 'After'. Thank God, google has a cache and I managed to screenshot it before it got refreshed and updated :)


So yes: there was ANOTHER event going on, on the same dates, because for almost a year we advertised those dates to the DEMOSCENE community. And since many sceners got their holidays granted for that period on purpose, we just couldn't ruin their plans of visiting Italy just because 'someone decided to kick us and replace us just because'.

I myself couldn't plan my holidays for that period, by the way.

So, rightfully, Horde took place AS PLANNED for one year and actually, it is about demoscene ONLY. Codex is NOT. Some compos inside a computer fair, if you may call it that way, is NOT a demoparty.

Here's the point: The two events ARE DIFFERENT. It's not the same event, nor they are about the same thing, at all.

We are sceners, we work for the demoscene. We even wanted to share users and worked for the timetables to match despite of the bad treatment we got, but eventually nobody could attend 0xaa as people were in a BUS and got notice couple of days before [wtf]. No problem, we had a great time, but it's not our loss nor our bad will and attitude in this case.

As, for next year[s], as we won't depend on any already-set date anymore, we will make sure the events won't match. We would have liked it not to match this year too, but sadly the kicking notice ''arrived'' [or better, 'got discovered'] too late and we have been kinda forced to set the event for right the same days.

So please, stop the drama. It really is not the case.


And yes: the html page - meta mention 0xaa and Codex Alpe adria as we ADVERTISED the demoscene with those names for _3_ years.
3 years in which WE worked for the demoscene and didn't claim our own name. Sad, but true.
So I wouldn't call it, really, a bad move done on purpose to kill and destroy the 1337 event, considering that it's all about our work and the time we've spent about it.

Now that we got a name and at least one 'full edition' so people know whom to refer at [with no mistakes anymore], you can make sure we won't need such a reference [alltho we will clearly state what we did in the past for codex fair even if credits have been deleted from the original website].

What you, mcb, are claiming is even worse. Glad you took the time to examine the whole website anyway :D

Last but not least: In 2006, as clearly written everywhere, 'Horde' was we name we gave to the organizers team. Not really the need to give any explanation to any other organizer as it was quite a private management thing :)

Then eventually [@mcb: thank you!] Horde became AN EVENT. A *real* event I mean. Not only the poor little crowd of demoscene organizers that worked in behalf of some other event's name. The Horde organization is alive since we are: the Horde event happened and became an event, actually, only since few months ago. Thank you for kicking us and trying to replace us with no reason: we worked hard and we managed to get a nifty DEMOPARTY done anyway. And I personally am very happy of how things turned out at Horde.
But once again, you're not a demoparty so I don't see what's your problem. Even webb.it had compos back then, but they never babbled about 'open' and 'close' scene events nor claimed it was a demoparty. This proves once again not only that you are NOT a scener, but that you really can't get the philosophy behind it all. And I am very sorry, I would at least have liked you succeeded in this. Amen.


That's all. I have been direct and clear, as usual. Any question about it should be addressed to my email [check profile], because this is going off topic and -once again- this is not the place to rant about the whole topic.

My email is public: feel free to use it if any of you got any question.

This is getting worthy of some popcorn, while we all wait to see if Amiga buys that bridge in Italy (or was it a hockey stadium in "another country"?)

Generally I tend to agree about posts that are too long, and also when there's a rational/factual dispute quite often the longer argument turns out to be the one that is wrong. However, especially with the last two posts, this thread seems to have a certain smack of the populist demagogy that Amiga readers are unfortunately either very eager to read, or good at promptly recognizing, but which so often serves only to derail genuine debate. That's why I prefer mcb's more rational approach, and I wish the Amiga community had more "spare time" for that.

@skandream: Your post is not very long, but it sure seems like a waste of words to provide no information whatsoever! Other than denying, could you at least clarify when Horde was announced to the public? For example, when was the date and place info posted at demoparty.net (first news I see there is from May 2007)?

@Delilah: Not sure what to think about the post. I personally don't know you, and that's from one person who had considered (but never had the time for) submitting a demo at Codex 2005 and 2006!

Quote:

As it's getting very personal we'd like [and *I* would like] We should have been in charge this year too so we actively worked I myself couldn't plan my holidays for that period, by the way. So, rightfully We have been very kind, if you ask me for almost a year we advertised those dates

Indeed it now sounds all quite..... personal

Just wondering.......

Were you the only one to ever have "actively worked"?

Were you the only one to have holiday plans?

Were you the only one who advertised those dates?

Why do you think that you can best decide what is "rightful(ly)"?

Why do you think you have been very "kind"? (Your post does not seem... kind )

Why do you think that you should have been in charge of anything in 2007?

Quote:

since many sceners got their holidays granted for that period

Granted for what event?

You had one 4K intro and one demo? Doesn't look like a lot of sceners, or a lot of good planning or work either, for a pure demoscene event.

Quote:

someone decided to kick us and replace us just because

I want to know more about this. Why do you think you were kicked? Was there no reason at all that you can think of?

Quote:

So please, stop the drama.

It seems that you forgot who actually started this drama

Quote:

proves once again not only that you are NOT a scener

So that's what it's all about? Who deserves to be called a scener, and who doesn't?

skandream wrote:
Quote:

I won't discuss any further about the subject

Delilah wrote:
Quote:

this is going off topic and -once again- this is not the place to rant

Seems to be a bit too easy for yourselves... You started all of this public ranting (following a rather peaceful show report, which was not even about your Horde party), and now that people are answering to you, you prefer to leave?

@Delilah: I see that the Horde web site also hosts your personal web site. Clicking here and there it does seem like you are a fascinating young woman, and you obviously are aware of that, as you paint and photograph yourself all over the place. Do you also consider yourself a goth? And what about the bloodletting photos (me now wants more ketchup on the popcorn), the artwork with the blood spilling from your mouth, the satanic logo... do you see yourself (and want to be seen, as these are public pages on the Horde site) like a vampire, a satanist, or something like that? Do some of the other Horde organizers share these interests? At the risk of being accused of ignorance, or worse, political incorrectness, I am trying to make sense of some of the things that were written here, including some of the more fascinating and controversial sides thereof.

Thanks again for your time.

> @Delilah: Not sure what to think about the post. I personally don't know you, and that's from one person who had considered
> (but never had the time for) submitting a demo at Codex 2005 and 2006!

You should have had. Shame on you :)
[and btw, shame of you for not knowing about me either, if you're an Italian scener :). Actually, I'm not really unknown for all that I've done and my presence in the scene]


> Were you the only one to ever have "actively worked"?

No, and never said that. I said that I actively worked for the DEMOSCENE section. Skan worked with me there, and the team grew by the time, featuring 2/3 more people and someone else providing very good advices. I always kept clear that we were the organisers of the DEMOSCENE section, NOT the whole Codex. Do not tweak my sentences, they're clear already.


> Were you the only one to have holiday plans?

Probably not. It was an example, just to make clear it involved me, too. That week would have great for me to have holidays, but I coudn't get them as I was planning to attend Codex just like the latest 3/4 years. When we got notice of the happening, well, it was too late, as I've said already.


> Were you the only one who advertised those dates?

As said already, it's not a matter of 'only one', it's about 'having to go for these dates'. And well, Skan advertised them too to the demoscene community.


> Why do you think that you can best decide what is "rightful(ly)"?

I never said that. Please re-read the whole post, and get the point. I am talking about the demoscene side of the organization, which is my 'work' actually.


> Why do you think you have been very "kind"? (Your post does not seem... kind )

It isn't. I HAVE BEEN very kind indeed, we all have been. Now that I've read these posts, I don't see the point of being anymore. We didn't go berserk and wrote the 3viL story of Doom on our website right after the whole thing happened: officially, we settled it peacefully. But apparently it wasn't worth it indeed.

> Why do you think that you should have been in charge of anything in 2007?

What? I can't really get the question here.


> You had one 4K intro and one demo? Doesn't look like a lot of sceners, or a lot of good planning or work either, for a pure demoscene event.

[first: we had MORE releases than a 4k and a demo]
Well, you had no time to release a demo, why should you judge other sceners? They CAME OVER. That's why they granted their holidays. You usually don't ask for holidays to spend those days working on a production. You ask for days to attend, actually. It's exactly what happened. And when people from Germany, Hungary, even Sweden shows up just because I told them the event should have took place, well, I'm not really in the mood of telling them little bit in advance 'hey, sorry, plans changed, don't know why what and when but it just happened. there. Sorry if you granted your holidays for nothing'.

And yes, that has turned into 'pure demoscene event' since we were organising it on our own since we got the nifty surprise of us 'being not part of the event anymore just because', so a few weeks only :)



> I want to know more about this.

Me too. Sadly, when asked, I got no answer, nor I really care about it now. It's too late to provide any information. No answer even for the credits being deleted, and all that is. I see people may not like me and not want me, but this way it makes no sense indeed.


> It seems that you forgot who actually started this drama

Well, it wasn't me :)


> So that's what it's all about? Who deserves to be called a scener, and who doesn't?

You can't get it, again.
Demoparties are for demosceners. You can't claim a party being 'closed'. It's made FOR demosceners, it's its purpose. Visitors can attend, but it's made for sceners that want to come over, have fun, meet old friends and stuff. Being a scener involves a state of mind, an etiquette, almost a whole system of belief, putting it that way. If you can't think like a scener, if you can't understand what a scener is and why someone is and why things work like that.. and all that philosophical stuff, well, you can't claim anything.
If I was a chef, I would be allowed discussing about high cuisine. If I'm not, I'm allowed discussing on how to cook pasta and something more - but I will probably not compare myself to chef's and pretend to know how the whole thing works better than they do. Stupid example, but fits well.


> Seems to be a bit too easy for yourselves... You started all of this public ranting (following a rather peaceful show report, which was not even
> about your Horde party), and now that people are answering to you, you prefer to leave?

Again: it was my FIRST post there. See. Number next my name says 'two' now. You seem freshly registered, too, prolly on purpose.
And I posted here to make some things clear. Skan corrected a wrong statement. It's okay. Nobody started any flame or drama, by our side, imho. Unless you think that 'correcting a statement' is.

I clearly asked people to write MY EMAIL because I actually don't like going off topic, but if you keep being public, my choice is either to start ignoring the thread or replying. In this specific case I replied, because I probably haven't been clear. So:

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTION OR WANT TO TALK ABOUT, PLEASE, EMAIL ME, AS I DO NOT WANT TO KEEP TWEAKING THIS THREAD WHICH IS ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE.

Hope it's more noticeable now.


> @Delilah: I see that the Horde web site also hosts your personal web site.

Not really, it's the untergrund.net that does. I actually just moved there my space for a while, and I see nothing bad in doing so, as the guys at untergrund allow me to :)

> Clicking here and there it does seem like you are a fascinating young woman

In case you missed it, that's a DRAWING. And those were fast pics used for a concept demo called 'gomen nasai', released at Breakpoint 04. I don't really know how you figured it was me :D. And in case you wonder: NO, I don't look like that at all :)

> and you obviously are aware of that, as you paint and photograph yourself all over the place.

Well not really. Those are artsy pieces, not plain photographs, they're not 'all over the place', and used to build my website only -credits are given-. Even if it was, it's my website, so well, what's about it? I don't really care about what people puts in their personal websites, as long as they're comfortable with it. [btw you're linking to an old hosting there, the new version is even better, featuring a totally digital drawing that took me months to be completed :P]

> do you see yourself (and want to be seen, as these are public pages on the Horde site) like a vampire, a satanist, or something like that?

I am known as being a dark and macabre artist, mostly, and I usually portray sexy women and such fantasy, dark and lovecraftian atmospheres. Read my website and you will get it better. Really: you are judging ME now, and you should send me an email if you have any question you can't live without, about me. Or read the website, not just go thru the picture and make wrong assumptions.

My post wasn't about my attitude, my artsy projects, my ideas, my 'pictures' or my *personal* website. I see you may have a fetish on discovering who Delilah is but, once again, this is not the right place.

So once again: pretty please, if any of you have any question or want to keep discussing, my email address is the one you can find in my profile, by clicking on 'delilah', reading the data, copying it and sending email.



I have a total respect for other events and I wish them well, but I do not accept to be pointed as tool of evil that likes to 'kill and destroy' other initiatives. Why it happened we had same dates this year? I clearly told why. I dared to tell the story and stuff. I already made clear the two events were of different nature, hence they could easily survive at the same time. Now, the whole discussion is over by my side.

Thank you for your comprehension.