AmiZilla Resources List

V1.3 13 Dec 05

Useful links for the AmiZilla project:

Here's some good overviews on the AmigaOS- it's from the AmigaOS4
site, but can be generally applied to AmigaOS3.x, MorphOS and AROS:

http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=11&I\
temid=

http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=16&I\
temid=

http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=18&I\
temid=

AmiZilla homepage: http://amizilla.sourceforge.net (and info on
setting up a dev environment)
Amizilla DiscreetFX Bounty site: http://www.amizilla.net/
AmiZilla Yahoo groups page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amizilla/
Amizilla SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/amizilla

Amiga OS Programmers' site: http://utilitybase.com/
Amiga OS4 Programmers' site: http://amigadev.amigaworld.net/
Reaction Programming forum:
http://amigadev.amigaworld.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=7
Reaction simple example: http://thomas-rapp.privat.t-online.de/about.lha

AROS/OS3/OS4/MOS Abstraction Headers and Macros:

http://os4depot.net/share/development/misc/sdi_headers.lha

Examples about how to create a shared library:
AmigaOS3: http://main.aminet.net/dev/c/CLib-SDI.lha
MOS:
http://www.lehtoranta.net/tutorial/library_examples.lha
OS4: Afaik OS4 has its own tool to make easier the
creation of libraries.

IDE: http://amidevcpp.kilu.de/
Cross-Compiling Setup on Windows:

http://www.bruzard.de/download/AmiDevCpp_Setup_v04.exe
Crosscompilers for win&linux: http://www.zerohero.se/cross/index2.html
SDK for AmigaOS3.9:
http://www.zerohero.se/cross/files/ndk-3.9-includes.tar.bz2

Arexx Introduction: http://w3.goodnews.net/~ehoffman/AREXX.txt
Arexx on AmigaOS4:
http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=15&I\
temid=0&limit=1&limitstart=2
Arexx on the web:
http://www.amigau.com/c-programming/arexx/arexxlinks.htm
Arexx Tutorials and Code Samples:

http://www.amigau.com/c-programming/arexx/arexxtut.htm
Arexx Tutorial:
http://members.cox.net/midian/tutorials/arexx1.htm

WinUAE Amiga Emulator (requires *legal* ROM image):
http://www.winuae.net/
Amiga Forever (commercial legal Amiga emulation for those without a real amiga
for the ROM):
http://www.amigaforever.com/
LouiSe's hardfile for UAE may be useful too... it has gcc and Geek Gadgets
installed:

http://www.innoidea.hu/subsites/amiga/developer/FILES/HardFiles/gcc111.zip

CVS and OpenSSH:
http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=14035&group_id=1
How to get source with CVS: http://amizilla.sourceforge.net/cvs.html
GREP tutorial:
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/unix/grep.html

GTK home page: http://www.gtk.org
GTK API documentation: http://www.gtk.org/api
GTK Tutorial: http://www.gtk.org/tutorial
GTK/GDK v2.6 source code:
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gtk+/2.6/
GTK/GDK v2.8 source code:
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gtk+/2.8/
GLib v2.8 source code:
http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/glib/2.8/

MUI Homepage: http://sasg.com/mui/index.html
MUI API docs: http://sasg.com/mui/autodocs/index.html
MUI Tutorial: http://www.ezcyberspace.com/gcc/

X11 docs: http://www.x.org/X11R6.8.2/doc/manindex3.html

GTK->MUI status:
http://homes.hallertau.net/~oli/amizilla/gtk/status.html
GTK->MUI SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/gtk-mui/
GTK->MUI Screenshots:
http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=141931
GTK->MUI Demo code and compiled exes (68k):

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gtk-mui/gtk-mui-examples.lha?download

NSPR documentation: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/nspr/index.html
Porting NSPR to a Unix Platform:
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/nspr/tech-notes/porting-guide.html

For anyone wanting to work on the NSPR projects, you'll need
512mb Ram to compile AmiZilla (at least initially), or access
to a machine with 512mb ram for compiling.

Configuring and Building AmiZilla:
http://amizilla.sourceforge.net/build.html

Mozilla project: http://www.mozilla.org
mozillaZine (Mozilla news): http://Mozillazine.org/
Configuring Build Options:
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Configuring_Build_Options
Build Instructions:
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Build_and_Install
Building Mozilla on Linux: http://www.x.org/X11R6.8.2/doc/manindex3.html
Mozilla Coding Style Guide:
http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/mozilla-style-guide.html
Mozilla Hacker's Getting Started Guide:

http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/coding-introduction.html
Mozilla C++ portability guide (very important):

http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/portable-cpp.html

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

how much easier would it be to port this if the 3.x-branch was stricken?

_________________
Yes I own an Amiga. A non-upgraded A500 that is unpacked once every 3 years.

If you are going to quote me, do so fully or not at all.
/Ins

@Insanity

That's a great question for the AmiZilla mailing list.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

Porting Firefox is not about money.. The problems are elsewhere..

im no expert, but the goals look to vast for the money available...

I dont pay donations related to an OS that I cannot run - OS4. sounds harsh, but IMHO Ainc will win the court case, never release HW and all the dreamers here will continue to hang off mcewens announcements till he dies of old age like complete idiots.

IMHO the only way forward is to unite around AROS...and maybe natami, wait and see...
but even though natami will be very a very powerful 68k machine, it still must move forward to PPC at some point...you cant play catch up with 68k for very long...

So if Ainc win the court case (they probably will) and release zero HW for OS4 (they probably will) then the port of firefox is useless...years of donations and time wasted.

And im soooo not interested in morphOS, not even considering its future is shaky...its like a sooky jack tramiel, running off to buy atari to get back at commodore and producing something inferior. cough atariST cough cough morphOS cough....

I read in the goals on the amizilla page that you want to support 3.9 to encourage amiga users to upgrade to 3.9 in a bid to help Amiga Inc.

Amiga Inc cant help themselves... there have been many missed opportunity's to make some money and the money they did secure, they burned on crap that wasnt going to make them any money...

for F*#&s sake I have this before and its true- "Housewives with home business's on the internet make more money in sales than Ainc does". Im sure bill mcewen has some skills, but when it comes to running a business, that is definitely not one of them.

And you want me to throw money at something related to them? until I see HW with my own eyes I will never give anything related to Ainc 1 cent.

Last edited by eniacfoa on 11-Aug-2008 at 11:34 PM.
Last edited by eniacfoa on 11-Aug-2008 at 11:24 PM.

_________________
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

http://ozconspiracyhouse.myfastforum.org

Thanks for pointing to the old reference to help Amiga Inc. eniacfoa, that has now been permanently removed. AmiZilla has no relation to Amiga Inc.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 12-Aug-2008 at 12:37 AM.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

Quote:

At these higher bounty levels maybe Linux developers will get interested

What about doing some kind of reverse porting. Do almost everything under Linux (developing is easier (mem protection) and faster there anyway) where you start with working LInux version and modify that one in such a way that at the end you have something which is (more) easy to move over to AOS style OSes.

For example you invent some abstracion layers (for GUI and for system) which allow easy mapping to AOS functions. Then you implement that under Linux. Then coders can start porting the browser to that abstraction layer, and since under Linux you can start with the already working browser that should be easier than having to start from scratch where it might take ages and a lot of annoying work until you can see something on screen.

This would also have the advantage that most of the work can be done by people who don't need to have any clue about AOS at all. For every good AOS coder there are tons of at least as good or even better Linux coders out there.

Quote:

Poster: DiscreetFX Date: 12-Aug-2008 10:50:00

Quote:

Thanks for pointing to the old reference to help Amiga Inc. eniacfoa, that has now been permanently removed. AmiZilla has no relation to Amiga Inc.

my pleasure...

now, go get richer and buy amiga from the town jester.
I would donate to that bounty haha...

In regards to amizilla, If I see OS4 has a future after the court case, ill think about parting with some money...but until then, I just don't trust mcewen to release HW. He doesnt see amiga the way we do and I think Ainc is some kind of financial scam these days...

Last edited by eniacfoa on 12-Aug-2008 at 06:40 AM.

_________________
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

http://ozconspiracyhouse.myfastforum.org

Quote:

Porting Firefox is not about money.. The problems are elsewhere..

Exactly right, it's a serious amount of work and you won't get people doing it for the money.

This is why I say break it up into small, manageable tasks that preferably have some value individually and can be used in other projects; e.g. javascript interpreter, XML parser, whatever. Even if only half the components get ported then something of value has been produced as they can be used elsewhere.

Quote:

At these higher bounty levels maybe Linux developers will get interested

Most Linux developers don't work for the money. Money is not the solution!

At the moment, no one is going to touch this project. It's like making Lord of the Rings. How many times did that get half made before someone finally broke it up into 3 movies and wrote some decent screenplays. This is why the project needs someone with professional experience to manage it. We need someone who can see the big picture when it comes to integration, dealing with all those components is not going to be easy.

We also need to consider maintenance. If we port the latest Firefox and then a big security hole is published, if we don't patch it we will be in the situation where we cannot risk using it or we will find our machines 0wned. It's early days to talk about this but it should be in the plan.

Quote:

So if Ainc win the court case (they probably will) and release zero HW for OS4 (they probably will) then the port of firefox is useless...years of donations and time wasted.

I disagree, Amiga has been pretty much dead since the A1200/A4000 but we have better hardware and newer OS. Somehow, we will survive.

Quote:

And im soooo not interested in morphOS, not even considering its future is shaky...

Why is MorphOS' future shaky ?

MorphOS team have their own source, future development plan, hardware (you CAN buy EFIKA) and no lawsuits. I would say their future is looking a lot more solid than OS4 or AI's.

Why do you have to be interested in MorphOS, are you a developer ? If you are a user, you run Ambient - it's just like Workbench. You run 68k software transparently using Trance, you run OS4 software using OS4emu. For all intents and purposes, you can get very decent levels of "Amiga compatibility".

And so what anyway ? EFIKA and MorphOS 2 probably cost more than NatAmi but are a lot more modern and powerful. If you have the cash you could be using that until lawsuits are settled and new hardware arrives.

@koan

Please lets not discuss the future of OS4 or MOS here.

To get back to Amizilla I agree that we need to break the bounty into smaller jobs before we will see progress.

Anyone here with a suitable knowledge to get that done and what are DiscreetFX take on this??

_________________

@Troels

DiscreetFX is open to what will help Firefox be ported to Amiga OS, MorphOS & AROS. This should be bought up in the AmiZilla forums.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 12-Aug-2008 at 02:56 PM.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@Troels

I agree. It was important to say that there will be a platform for Amizilla to run on, but I got sidetracked.

Another possibility is to get someone to divide the project up and create bounties on existing bounty sites.

Make smaller bounties for (in this order) at $1000 each point:
-NSPR
-XPCOM
-Cairo and basic 2D drawing functions
-MUI gadgets


All the small bounties would include the following points:
-working with all examples in all amiga flavours.
-providing sources and binaries (both with all dependencies) for all amiga flavours.
-maintaining it until first stable amiga version is released (the last 33% could be given at the end)
-integrating it with main Mozilla tree(provide also a modified configure script)

All these previous points are boring and require time (maintenance, testing, packaging, making static libraries shared ones and preparing them for all amiga flavours...)

Last edited by Crumb on 12-Aug-2008 at 10:03 PM.

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@ koan

Yep, I agree with the breaking it down into components- there actually are specific components for the project- I first organised them for with Captain Moo Moo's students. They're not on the current AmiZilla Team site, but be will be when I get time to update it (the new site is mostly done just needs more info)- as you can see I have had very little in the last year or two to work on the project...

And recently on the AmiZilla list we've talked about setting specific goals with bounties, to encourage people to help, and as you say avoid chaos on the pay-out! The only problem with this, is that it will only work with smaller projects like say fully porting Cairo. A big problem is getting the NSPR to compile, and getting the entire project to compile- you really want multiple people helping on these sorts of things, as they're not easy!

But hopefully I'll have some time free in a month, and will write them up, and put them on the website.

@ All

The problem with this project, is that it's OS3.1 based, and so can then be then ported to OS4, MorphOS and AROS. As most programmers are usually supporting one OS or the other- ie: MorphOS or OS4, they won't participate in anything that might help the opposition- only projects that forward their own system! Of course they shoot themselves in the foot by doing this, as everyone loses out! And those few OS-neutral programmers left like myself don't have much time free to work on AmiZilla.

So more money won't help the above situation- unless it was substantial...

I'm thoroughly annoyed with the Amiga communities!


- Ants

AmiZilla Team Coordinator

_________________
- Ants

@ Chris H

I'd prefer the requirement to be: Compiles and runs on OS 3.1, as not everyone has 3.9- most members of the AmiZilla Team don't for example.

@ Insanity
> how much easier would it be to port this if the 3.x-branch was stricken?

Well, then we'd only be able to compile it on AROS- OS4 systems are impossible to get, and MOS would take some investment to do it (as would OS4)- better to start on OS3, then it's a relatively easy port to the others- and then other programmers can do OS4 or MOS, if we don't have the hardware.
And I like DiscreetFX's earlier idea, to split the bounty up into 4 parts- one for OS3, one for OS4, MOS and AROS, to make it easier to get the bounty.

@ eniacfoa
If we do an OS3.1 port, then it's easy to port to AROS, and then we avoid any politics- (apart from everyone disliking us of course... ).

@ Georg
The problems with porting to the Amiga OS, lie in getting it running on the Amiga OS- and only when you start to compile for it, do these problems appear! One way though, is to configure it to work under X, and GTK/GDK and port those libs to OS3 etc. Then a native GUI (ZUL) layer can be made.


- Ants

AmiZilla Team Coordinator

_________________
- Ants

more Rant...

Both OS4 and MorphOS did separate Browser projects- and had a very experienced programmer work for around 6 months or more on each, for bounties that were small compared to AmiZilla- now AROS is doing the same thing...

If we'd had just one of these programmers working on AmiZilla we probably would have had the NSPR working in a month (maybe 2 at the most)! And then another month or 2 to get the GUI working, and then it would be a relatively simple port to Mos, OS4 and AROS.
But instead programmers for each OS tried to get an advantage over the opposition by getting a decent browser first. Both OSes ended having one at the same time, with it taking double the work- doh!

I understand the need to have a nice efficient Amiga-like browser- but it could have come later- AmiZilla would have been a sensible first project, to get a modern browser on these OSes, and get more credibility from computer users outside the Amiga communities.

So this why people in this thread have given up on the AmiZilla project! As for the AmiZilla Team, we still haven't, and are trying to find some spare time to do work on it!

-Ants

AmiZilla Coordinator

_________________
- Ants

Very true Ants.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@Ants
Quote:

If we'd had just one of these programmers working on AmiZilla we probably would have had the NSPR working in a month (maybe 2 at the most)!

Jeff Shepherd had NSPR working back in 2003/4.

Wish we knew what happened to Jeff Shepherd.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@koan

Quote:

So if Ainc win the court case (they probably will) and release zero HW for OS4 (they probably will) then the port of Firefox is useless...years of donations and time wasted.

Quote:

I disagree, Amiga has been pretty much dead since the A1200/A4000 but we have better hardware and newer OS. Somehow, we will survive.

that statement doesn't explain how porting Firefox to OS4 if no HW ever materializes is not a waste of time and money, even if there are some side benefits.

Of course amigans will find another way, but thats just it, itll be another way, with OS4 dead outside of the few people who have A1's and PPC accelerators.

The situation is a real disaster...OS4 and all the work spent could be wasted if it cannot be purchased and run on available HW.

you seem optimistic that HW will come for OS4 after the court case, but im not.

you say their MOS's future looks better than Ainc's, but if Ainc was going to go bust, penti would have let it happen by now....does the MOS team have a sugar daddy?

Theres something in it for penti...and its not a desire to create new a new amiga computer, That is plain to see...

Last edited by eniacfoa on 16-Aug-2008 at 05:10 PM.

_________________
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

http://ozconspiracyhouse.myfastforum.org