that is not precise. OS4 user want exactly what they have but cheaper... but this will not bring new developer and user in the community except that the new hardware would be as cheap as the PCs but even then the software would be missing.

We do not need a new PPC computer, we need more unifying of the community! (And projects that support that)

we need more common projects and hardware that helps to unify so that you buy one hardware and without being restricted forever to one OS. And more common software-projects (Development, Web etc.). And every OS should support other hardware and not being more or less exclusively (or better isolated) and you have to buy 3 or 4 different computers to use all flavors.

The software... there is not a big chance right now (at least as long as the community is splitted right now. I have asked many of these companies (some still exist) if they would support natami where they could use the existing source and they mostly answered no. And a port to PPC would mean a completely rewriting. The only exception is the author of Xipaint who wants to adapt it to Natami. In any case noone is interested to rewrite it for a couple of hundred potential users. The chance to port something (f.e. Gimp) from Opensource is higher, for commercial development the market is too small.

At those complaining of no FPGA option: in the CPU category there is 68K based CPU as an option, now, nobody thinks they're talking about the original MC68000 (right?) but a 68K based CPU in general. Could be the 68050 on FPGA.
If that's what you like vote 68K.

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

That is it not exactly. "68k" in the poll means 68k only (a Natami with 68050 f.e. or FPGA Arcade). I think of extend Natami with PowerPC (similar to PowerUP). I do not know if that is possible with FPGA Arcade too.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-Dec-2011 at 01:00 PM.

@olafs25

Completely agree with you we don't need new hardware, we have already a x1000 and Sam that is nice custom amiga hardware. To make it cheaper would mean thousands of customers, which is impossible. We need softwares and to unify if not OS at least hardware by porting MOS and AROS on X1000 and Sams

It is a close race :
PPC Vs. X86

My feeling is CUSA will go for X86 based path since they are already there!
Emulator on X86? UAE X86

Wajdy

.... oeps....

Last edited by Metalheart on 23-Dec-2011 at 02:11 PM.

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

@Hondo

Quote:

AOS 4.0 is the naturel succesor to AOS 3.0 - which is the naturel succesor to AOS 2.0 which is the naturel succesor to AOS 1.0 (workbench) Are you saying we should cut off 10 years work to support 3.0 ??? - now that would indeed be a big step forward

It's not "naturel" if you want to support the further development of the Amiga chipset, the 68k architecture and do not care about standard PC hardware with PPC cpus.

I would gladly "cut off 10 years" of Hyperions work if I could see the real Amiga hardware architecture develop and have a future with OS3 and AROS. Because those 10 years of work has also been put in by community efforts like the unofficial BoingBags and AROS.

Unless Hyperion ports OS4 to 68k, they and their products are of minimal interest to me. And I bet that I speak for others too. Classic 68k users make up the big majority of the Amiga community after all.

Last edited by Channel_Z on 23-Dec-2011 at 02:45 PM.
Last edited by Channel_Z on 23-Dec-2011 at 02:44 PM.

Quote:

IMHO what we (community) needs/wants is Software, not more hardware. Xmos support, SMP, and high quality applications to use current hardware at least at same level we had on Amiga4000 era, you know, Lightwave, TV Paint, Scala, Wordwoth, Final Calc, Real 3D, Imagine, [add here you favourite apps]

This will never happen at least not in numbers we need to start growing as a market.
X1000 may be really powerful machine in Amiga (PPC) terms but way to expensive to become common and worth to develop special versions of software for...

Not very popular opinion here and it will probably takes lot more time before people find out PPC is a dead end but after all most amiga users become masters of patience over the years

Quote:

before people find out PPC is a dead end

OK. Your POV.

Try this;

Contact Leo (CUSA) and prove to him that re-making high speed classics in custom
cases is a good business plan. Keep in mind, they can not be sold with any amiga-like
OS. Therefore a homebrew OS will need to be supplied if only to boot the computer.

Take a poll, Aorg would probably have the most results for such a project, get 500 people
to sign on, present to Leo and convince him this is the way forward.

P.S. My POV to your above statement.......... Thanks for your efforts to help unify.

good job with the poll _Steve_

_________________

@Channel_Z

So if classic users is the bigger userbase it means that Natami is the only option runing AOS 3.x? So it would be fun to just run old 68k-applications meaning that not even a modern browser will be available. No watching HD-movies, not any of the features that AOS 4 brings...

I like the Natami for what it is but I wouldn't want that over something that runs AOS 4. I want to be able to user modern features, not just being nostalgic. I think that there are room for both but for different purposes but if I had to choose I'd choose something powerfull that runs AOS 4. To have the Natami chipset as an onboard chip-set with the option of a graphicscard would be really cool though.

If I had to choose, NG hardware with AOS 4 gets my vote. I feal too limited using AOS 3.x now even with all the latest patches.

@thread

Acube got an opinion on this one:

Quote:

@c=usa do not pre order if you can just order

Seems to me a collaboration is a long way off.

Source: http://twitter.com/acubesystems#

the idea was not about having a pure Natami-System (that will already become reality), but it is the idea to have a PowerPC addon similare to PowerUP. There was already a discussion about this topic some time ago and Ben Hermans was positive about it. So technical it is possible, it should have decent speed and it would be a (relatively cheap) option for Natami-Users (and many of the NG users are interested too in it) to install all flavors (with hopefully Aros and MorphOS support) on one hardware. It would connect all camps, it would mean additionally customers for the NG platforms and another option for Natami-Users. And with "Amiga" on it it would certainly a interesting product for CUSA. So I think a win-win for all.

The poll (how it is constructed right now) seems to be targetting a new PowerPC computer (just cheaper) but we already have enough (hardware) options right now, it is more important to connect the different platforms now and to create more synergies than to create new computers (that will be not cheaper).

Ports of MorphOS and AmigaOS to X86 are not realistic in the near future because too expensive. So I would say use what we have now and just add hardware that connects more than one platform. The other topic is more support of different platforms, f.e. Aros and MorphOS on Acube and X1000 and AmigaOS (Aros) on certain PowerMacs.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 24-Dec-2011 at 10:47 AM.

OlafS25

PPC addon for Natami to be able to run AmigaOS 4.x at decent speed? Count me in!

So far.....

Clear: (31.12.2011)
AmigaOS 69%
PowerPC 56%
Powerfull 62%
68k compatible 87%
AOS4 compatible 86% / 73%
co-operation+AOS4 86%

Not that clear:
299-899USD (votes average might be around 700USD)
Keyboardcase 39% vs compact tower 34%

When looking at my own set of options:
"o1-participate in bringing the NetBook to market (sooner+better drivers+higher volume, 350EUR)"
People seem to be wanting more performance than

"o2-bring a new ultra low end desktop/retrogames console to market (around 300...500EUR)"
Still valid, if powerfull enough.

"o3-bring cost reduced SAM460 kind of HW to market (co-operation with ACube) (around 500EUR)
o4-bring the power2people MPC6810 HW to market (~500EUR?)"
Both mid range variants till valid.

"o5-partner with A-Eon to bring their next HW to market (X2000? ~1000EUR)"
Not valid. Too pricey.

"o6-bring a NATAMI+PPC+PCIe comboHW to market (~800+EUR?)"
Valid, especially if it can be made cheaper (BETATESTER style).

o7-PPC PCIe card for x86 (400EUR?)
Perhaps valid, but people want new Amiga. A card can not be "Amiga"?

o8-something else
-x86 AOS4 (with PPCJIT and 68kJIT and native drivers) 300USD + 400USD for branded x86HW ???
If people wanted x86, this might be it.
Would 500*300USD (150 000USD) be enough for AOS4 port work etc.?

+ IMHO (my amiga gategories):
low end (netbook, set top box, etc)
- single or dualcore
- 400Mhz...1Ghz (people seem to want 1Ghz or faster on desktop)
- 300EUR or only a little more
- 32bit addressing
- minimal or none PCIe expansions
- very low power consumption
- perhaps integrated GFX chip (inside the SoC or mobile 3D chip, eg: M92+512MB)

mid range
- single or dualcore
- 1Ghz or more + L2 cache
- 500EUR or only a little more
- 32bit addressing
- PCIe and other expansions
- low power consumption
- support for modern PCIe GFX cards

high end
- dualcore or quadcore
- 1.5Ghz or more + L2 cache + VMX/Altivec
- 1000EUR or more
- 64bit addressing
- 128bit (dual channel) memory
- PCIe and other expansions
- reasonably energy efficient
- support for modern PCIe GFX cards (r700 or better)

IMHO, retrogamesconsole coule be in between low and mid.
If the CPU would be x86, double the Mhz.

Last edited by KimmoK on 06-Jan-2012 at 01:27 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 31-Dec-2011 at 09:15 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 28-Dec-2011 at 12:52 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 28-Dec-2011 at 12:45 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 27-Dec-2011 at 12:14 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 27-Dec-2011 at 10:11 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 27-Dec-2011 at 09:44 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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