@kiero
One final thing before I call this quits for tonight:
Quote:

don't use os3/aros as an excuse here

Why do you think AROS is an excuse? It's a fantastic "backup plan" should OS4/MOS go tits-up.

My perspective (which you'll find in more detail here) is that I don't want to risk tying myself to any one platform ever again. I did that with AmigaE on AmigaOS3.x, and for some time in the year 2000 I had the prospect of ditching all the code & programs I ever wrote (not to mention a lot of data stuck in Amiga-only formats) - not any fun I can tell you. So I started on PortablE. In the *long* run I hope that my programs will run on Windows or Linux (or whatever future OS I may pick) as well as Amiga-like OSes. It's the only way to be sure I won't be f*******ked by things outside of my control. Plus if something better comes along, I can switch to it without any problems.

A great "side benefit" is that I can use my programs on more than one OS, rather than finding myself trapped to one OS. For example, FolderSync2 runs on Windows as well as Amiga, so I can keep all my data synced between Windows & Amiga via FTP (which actually means I can use Amiga for everything it can do, and then switch to Windows for those things which it currently can't).

Last edited by ChrisH on 16-Sep-2010 at 08:56 PM.

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Quote:

But the most importantly MUI must evolve with MorphOS. Open source developers are not going to implement our demands nor meet MorphOS deadlines.

Nothing stops you from contributing to the open source project just like everyone else. It'd give you another benefit down the road: Gaining the advantages of the efforts non-MOS developers are putting in, the same way you've gained lots from AROS.

Quote:

Yeyeyeyeyeye. You missed the boat ten years ago when the Open Amiga was established -- and died. It has been tried and it didnt work. Nope, I dont mean that OS4 project here.

Many things have been tried and not worked, only to work again later when tried a different way. In this case the goal is fairly modest. It will be reached, with or without MOS developers joining in the effort.

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@vidarh

Quote:

Nothing stops you from contributing to the open source project just like everyone else.

It only adds burden of maintenance work. I know you are trying to drive open source minded development but it does not work with closed source OS.

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@vidarh

Quote:

In other words, it's not just about porting stuff that's currently using MUI4, but also about creating a larger development community around a more uniform toolchain and thus increasing the pool of available software for everyone included.

+1

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@kiero

How many MUI project is actually only MUI 3.x target ?

Just think about YAM, SimpleMail, SabreMSN and so so on ... developers of these software are (actually) forced to use MUI 3.x API in order to make their project cross platform.

Conversely having common API's all based to the version 4 of MUI can incentivate our developers to improve and mantain their project in the future ...

This may be also a first step to reunify our community, the current situation it's quite stupid, we are the Amiga community, red, black, blue ... think about that, there is power in a union !

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@itix
Don't ask me. I only did some work for Hyperion. I'm an independent contractor.

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Quote:

Of course they are within their right to do so. But it is short sighted for the simple reason that they have everything to gain from giving developers a reason to target MUI4 instead of ReAction for starters. They will likely gain more applications, as will everyone else.

Maybe we should also ask Hyperion to release Reaction under any open source license? They would likely gain more applications, as will everyone else?

Quote:

Maybe we should also ask Hyperion to release Reaction under any open source license? They would likely gain more applications, as will everyone else?

They probably would. I've mentioned before that I don't particularly like MUI. But both Hyperion and MOS have had plenty of opportunities to take leadership in terms of releasing code, and haven't taken them, so I doubt it's suddenly going to happen now.

As a result, for me Zune is interesting mostly for pragmatic reasons because it seems like the most viable path to getting a reasonably advanced GUI toolkit across all the Amiga-like OSs.

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@vidarh

Quote:

As a result, for me Zune is interesting mostly for pragmatic reasons because it seems like the most viable path to getting a reasonably advanced GUI toolkit across all the Amiga-like OSs.

Please explain this concept to people (in particular way OS4 users and devs) which have not very clear how MUI APIs are important to the Amiga platform...and how foreign frameworks like QT are useless in a context where the Amiga has serious difficults to define a serious standard de facto and de jure framework when Amiga history explain very well what MUI is.

If I develop on the Amiga I would use the Amiga API and frameworks. It's surely good to have foreign frameworks like Mozilla or QT, but these frameworks are better supported on UNIX, and programs written with there frameworks have few in common with the Amiga UI and with its feeling. To make these frameworks more amiga-like IMO would take more time than to port them on our platform.
Nokia has using more than a year to based its SOs (Symbian and MeeGo) on QT framework and to make it closer to smartphone UI phylosophy.

On the Amiga a similar work would take...uhm 6 years to be optimistic?

@ShInKurO

Tastes.. only personal tastes.
I will prefer a lot something that is modern like QT and not MUI4.
BTW, as you seen from the MOS developers you will never get MUI4 on OS4 or AROS (and for me is normal that they want to protect their work).
So, the solution is. Do you want a portable app? use MUI3. Do you want to use MUI4, buy MOS and develop with MUI4.
Do you want a really portable app.. open a QT bounty..

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@afxgroup

Do You think that QT can be done for AmigaOs3.x or AROS in near future. I don't think so. Amiga people want to have their programs ported for other Amiga-like Oses, not to/from linux.

Maybe we should wait for OS4 having proper QT port (proper, not X11 recompilation) which uses amiga library (not .so), amiga font handling, amiga clipboard, screens, arexx, commodity support, amiga guide help support, iconify, appwindows, env,intuition menus, datatypes like MUI has already.

If QT will have these features, we can talk about setting up a portable GUI for amigalike oses. Denial of the MUI and praise QT is sad and FUD in my opinion.

indeed.. i'm not speaking about the X11 version that is already avialable. I'm speaking abouta native version. This will possible (an a bounty could have more sense that MUI4). Not only. A QT port allows also an Amiga developer to port applications also on Linux/Mac/Win,
If we must start something that is sharable it is best to build something that is sharable among ALL platforms available on the world..

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Quote:

It only adds burden of maintenance work.

Why ? open source doesn't necessarily mean open team... You may still keep your project management as it is, but release source code...

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i can completely understand the pov that kiero represents. mos team has no duty whatsoever to release their achievments fro free, we can only try to talk them into it or perhaps propose enough (finantial) motivation if the bounty eventually reaches some level (unlikely, especially other bounties have drained the community already). qt might be an option for applications ported to amiga, nothing more. and from my point of view reaction might be kept closed source or abandoned whatever, i dont care,

Quote:

Why ? open source doesn't necessarily mean open team... You may still keep your project management as it is, but release source code...

It would be one way development -- MorphOS team develops and others leech its fruits.

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Quote:

It would be one way development -- MorphOS team develops and others leech its fruits.

Sure... But this is what happened with a lot of open source stuff you ported to MorphOS (Games, libs,...), you just leech the fruits... And what's wrong ?

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@Leo

Difference is that MorphOS developers are not beggars open source this, open source that, and open source that too. You can always ask -- it costs absolutely nothing to ask -- but if answer is no then it is no.

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@ssolie

I was only wondering since Hyperion pays royalties for each OS4 copy. If there was free MUI alternative Hyperion could use it instead.

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ok. i have contributed to the bounty although i dont believe it is going to be completed. just a vote baced up with money so to say.