I think Hyperion have a pretty strong counter case. In the internet way back machine people over at Amiga.org already saw references to Bill McEwen calling the Eyetech board the AmigaOne so this can be brought up as evidence that he is lying.

_________________
AmigaOne-XE G3 OS 4.
A4000 PPC
A1200 PPC

@Chris_Y

Quote:

That doesn't tally with the quotes as you said, but I suspect we're talking at cross purposes so I'm going to drop it.

When I said crystal clear it was with a cavaliar sense of bravado!

I'm confused as hell!

I'm keeping an open mind on this as far as possible - I hope, if Hyperion acted in good faith, they don't get shafted - ie: win.

I have a horrible feeling that Amiga Inc haven't changed their spots, still want to kill the desktop OS and are using Adam ACK in a cynical game. If we don't see a photo of a new ACK running OS4 in the next month then we will know it is another scam by Amiga Inc. I have to say this level of cynicism would be enough to make Dr Evil himself blush.
Mwahahaha

mwahahahaha!

mwahahahahahahahaha!

Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

First off all I do have to appologize for former stuff I'va said about not getting OS4 ready.

I am with you on this Hyperion. You do have my full support.

Thanks for your hard work on the OS and everything else.

_________________

Any one remember the Following update from Eyeteck ?

AmigaOne Update


The A15 is now ready!

The AmigaOnepoint5 is now production ready and orders for discounted developer/dealer/OS4 beta-tester boards/systems are now being taken (but only until by midnight on Sunday 24th March GMT 2002) for delivery in April. This closing date is necessary so that we can assess the volume required in this initial production run and place the order with the manufacturers. Purchasers of these boards will also be able to obtain a discount on the full user version of OS4.0 when it is released.

If you have previously applied for beta-tester or dealer status YOU MUST REAPPLY as we no longer require beta testers for the A1 board itself, only for OS4 and applications that run (or should run!) under it. Please order via our website here. If you are a dealer, please mention this on your order, and a dealer price will be forwarded to you.

The main production run will be timed so that boards are ready at the same time as the consumer release of OS4, probably in May 2002.

The developer/dealer boards and (at least) the first run of production boards will be shipped with soldered-on G3 PPC CPU's running at 600 MHz which will give a remarkable speed increase over any existing G2 (Blizzard/Cyberstorm) PPC accelerators for the Amiga. Soldering the CPU in place - rather than using BGA sockets or chip carriers - allows us to keep the reliability very high and the costs as low as possible. (BGA sockets and/or carrier board options add a huge amount to the cost of the board).

As OS4 versions (or applications software) are developed which make use of the Altivec processor in the G4 we will make a G4 version available, again with a soldered-on chip (probably the 7441 at 700 MHz). It is possible that we could produce a socketed chip-carrier version, but only if we can engineer the costs down so it adds no more than 15% to the costs of a board with a soldered on CPU.


The A1.5? What happened to the original A1?

In October 2000 when we laid out the design for the A1, there was no commercially available 'northbridge' chip (the interface between the CPU, memory and PCI bus) in the relatively small quantities that we needed, at an economic price. 'Southbridge' chips were available (these handle the system timing, interrupts etc and, traditionally also embed the lower speed peripheral functions such as IDE, USB etc), but clearly these do not come with a built in A1200-PCI bridge - which would have to be built in custom logic. It therefore made economic sense to build a custom southbridge chip which incorporated the A1200-PCI bridge - but without the integrated peripherals (which were available on separate chips at low cost anyway). Things were going nicely on the origi

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

Good Luck Amiga Inc, i hope in court you absolutely destroy hyperion for trying to steal your property and holding os4 hostage for all these years. Everyone who wanted to run os4 would be already doing so, if it was not for hyperions slimy,deceitful antics.

The A1.5? What happened to the original A1?

In October 2000 when we laid out the design for the A1, there was no
commercially available 'northbridge' chip (the interface between the CPU,
memory and PCI bus) in the relatively small quantities that we needed, at an
economic price. 'Southbridge' chips were available (these handle the system
timing, interrupts etc and, traditionally also embed the lower speed
peripheral functions such as IDE, USB etc), but clearly these do not come
with a built in A1200-PCI bridge - which would have to be built in custom
logic. It therefore made economic sense to build a custom southbridge chip
which incorporated the A1200-PCI bridge - but without the integrated
peripherals (which were available on separate chips at low cost anyway).
Things were going nicely on the original A1 design until May/June . . . but
not much - and certainly not enough to allow us to even consider going into
production - was happening on OS4 at that stage. We therefore ramped down
hardware development work and concentrated on finding a workable solution to
make OS4 happen.

By the time OS4 development had been signed off in early November the world
had moved on. Commercially available PPC northbridge chips were available,
and coupled with off-the-shelf southbridge chips, were able to deliver better
price performance than the original A1 custom chip design, and (since the big
boys had already been using them successfully) without the risk of bugs
intrinsically present in any custom logic implementation. This meant that the
only custom logic function needed was for the PCI to A1200 bridge.

Alongside this many people had expressed a wish only to have a stand-alone A1
board, without the need (or ability) to run hardware-hitting applications. In
addition Hyperion have been making better than expected progress in
decoupling the chipset dependencies in the OS with a result that it will
cease to be reliant on the Amiga chipset at a very early stage of the OS 4
release cycle. (Of course hardware hitting applications will, to a greater or
lesser extent, still need access to a genuine Amiga chipset). Given this, we
thought it would be sensible to try to provide Amiga chipset availability as
an a option, so that the main A1 board would not have to carry the cost of
providing this connection - in terms of PCB and component real-estate, and in
requiring a custom tower to mount it in. The upshot is that Escena has come
up with a solution which allows the bridge to the A1200 chipset to be made
from a PCI card, via ribbon cable, to the A1200 edge connector. The use of a
ribbon cable also helps solve the 'will it work in an xyz tower' problem, as
there is (within limits) quite a wide range of A1 & A1200 relative board
positioning that can be used. This A1200/PCI bridge will be an additional
cost item for those who need it.


Revised specifications for the AmigaOnepoint5

Over the past year or so since the original AmigaOne specifications were
first published we have had a lot of private - and more than enough public -
feedback on what people would like to see in the AmigaOne specifications over
what had been published. Of course several of these wishes were completely
commercially unrealistic (eg - I paraphrase - "Why don't you produce a
Gameboy-sized and -priced AmigaOne with the power of the top SG workstation
that runs on one AA cell for 6 months, and is user upgradable - and still
runs my A500 WB1.3 games from floppy") - but there were also lots of sensible
comments as well.

The main useful feedback that has come out over the last year concerning the
original design - and the way the AmigaOnepoint5 addresses these can be
summarised as follows:

CPU speed concerns The AmigaOnepoint5 will handle G3/G4 CPU's to their
current clocking limits (but, of course, subject to chip availability at the
higher end - Apple currently absorbs most of these chips under contract).
Memory speed concerns The AmigaOnepoint5 supports 133MHz FSB SDRAM.
(According to our engineers DDR memory doesn't gain anything in help PPC
board design).
Provision of legacy peripherals The AmigaOnepoint5 has on board FDD, serial,
parallel, PS2 kb & PS2 mouse ports.
Provision of integrated peripherals The AmigaOnepoint5 provides 2x USB on the
motherboard rear ATX I/O panel) + 2 more on headers (for using a front bay
outlet), 10/100 ethernet, AC97 audio and MC97 data/fax/modem, and UDMA 100
hard disk/ATAPI interface (2 channels - 4 devices).
Graphics interface speed The AmigaOnepoint5 supports a 2x AGP bus, and PCI
graphics cards at 66 MHz.
Will it run Linux? Yes - in fact that's how the AmigaOnepoint5 hardware
design was debugged. The developer editions will be shipped with Linux PPC
and UAE PPC install CD's.
I don't need hardware-hitting application compatibility The AmigaOnepoint5
will run in standalone mode as soon as OS4.0 has had all the legacy hardware
dependency removed from it. As most of this (according to Hyperion) was in
the already-rewritten exec.library this full hardware independence will be
introduced very soon after the first release of OS4, if not actually
incorporated into it. If your application itself still requires the presence
of the original Amiga chipset then you will need to use the optional
PCI/Amiga bridgeboard.
Will it fit in an EZTower Mk1-5 / Elbox tower / standard ATX tower? The
AmigaOnepoint5 has a full ATX form factor and will therefore fit into any
suitable ATX tower with a 250W or higher PSU. It will fit directly into the
EZTower Mk4 & 5 (these will need the AT PSU replacing with an ATX unit) in
the PC board position, and into the EZTower Mk1-3 (which will need a minor
amount of metalwork to accommodate the back panel ATX I/O connectors & an ATX
PSU). The EZTower Mk1-5 also allow an A1200 motherboard to be mounted within
the same case as the AmigaOnepoint5 board.

The EZTower-Z4, the Power/Elbox Tower and any other Amiga-specific tower
design are not suitable for the AmigaOnepoint5 board without substantial
modification. However if you have purchased an Eyetech EZTower-Z4 directly
from us since 1st January 2001 please read the special arrangements we have
made for you in the FAQ's below.


In summary the AmigaOnepoint5 will come with:

o 4 x PCI slots + 1 x AGP slot on 2 buses
o 10/100Mbps ethernet
o 2 x USB connectors + 2 more on headers
o 2 x UDMA 100 channels (4 devices)
o Open firmware-compatible BIOS with OS4.0 extensions & NV memory
o PS2 mouse & keyboard connectors
o Sound, modem & gameport I/O via the AMR header
o Parallel, serial & floppy (PC FDD controller) connectors
o Real time clock
o 2 x SDRAM sockets for up to 2 GB of main memory


CPU options

As far as the CPU is concerned the first series of boards will use a 600 MHz
G3 CPU and will come with this soldered in place, thereby keeping the costs
as low as possible. As G4's fall in price/become more available we may also
offer a soldered in place G4 CPU option as well. If we can engineer the costs
of a socketed/chip carrier version with CPU to be no more than 15% above the
price of a soldered-in CPU equivalent then we will consider producing these
versions.

What happens if you buy an entry level board and want to upgrade it in a year
or so's time? Well exactly the same as when you bought a similarly priced
accelerator a couple of years back and want to upgrade to a faster one (but
this time you get a free computer attached!). You either sell it privately or
trade it in to the dealer where you purchased it. In fact in the PC market,
despite all processors being socketed, hardly anyone ever changes the CPU to
improve the computer - they nearly always have to buy a (at least) a new
motherboard as well. We're just being upfront about it!


AmigaOnepoint5 availability

To keep prices down and quality up we are having the boards manufactured in
the Far East. Delivery to us in the UK is around 4 weeks from our placement
of the order with the manufacturer. The developer/dealer boards will be
ordered will be ordered on 25th March and allocated to those that have placed
their orders, including payment details, by midnight on Sunday 24th March
GMT. Cards will not be charged until the boards are shipped.

The main production run order will be placed by us when Hyperion have told us
that they can commit to release OS4 as an end user product. Hyperion's web
site will give updated OS4 release information on a regular basis. We will
then invite Amiga dealers to place firm volume orders with us for shipment on
a first-come-first served (FIFO) basis. There will be a minimum order volume
and technical support requirements to become an AmigaOnepoint5 dealer. The
revised A1 dealer requirements will be published on the mailing list at
www.yahoogroups.com/group/a1dealer.

Dealers (and end users) will be required to purchase one copy of OS4 with
each AmigaOnepoint5 mainboard or system. Dealers will be able to purchase OS4
direct from Hyperion.


AmigaOnepoint5 pricing

Dealers are free to set their own end user prices both for the AmigaOnepoint5
boards and for complete systems to take account of import duty, localisation
of support, documentation etc. However our recommended pricing for the
AmigaOnepoint5 motherboard, inclusive of a 750CXe 600 MHz G3 PPC processor
but exclusive of local taxes and shipping charges, is UKP350, USD500, EUR600.

OS4 pricing is determined by Hyperion but is likely to be UKP42.50, USD62.50,
EUR70.00 (excluding local taxes) when bought with an AmigaOnepoint5 board or
system. The standalone prices for OS4 (for use with the CyberstormPPC etc)
are likely to be UKP51.00, USD74.00 EUR84.00 (excluding local taxes &
shipping).


Developer/OS4 beta tester systems

A limited number of developer/dealer AmigaOnepoint5 boards will be available
for delivery in April to those placing orders by midnight on Sunday 24th
March GMT. These will be fully functional and tested boards identical to
those produced in the first production runs. These developer systems will be
shipped with Linux PPC and UAE PPC on CD (for you to install) and a beta
version of OS4.0 will be available for download from the Hyperion website -
to board purchasers - from the Hyperion website. Eyetech will not be offering
any direct support for the installation of Linux PPC or UAE PPC except via
our website pages. If you feel that this task may be beyond your capabilities
then please do not order the developers board - it is not meant for you.

These developer boards will be offered at a 10% discount over the regular
price (ie at UKP315/USD450/EUR540 (excluding local taxes and shipping). There
will be a further 10% reduction on the price of the end user version of OS4
when published, for purchasers of the developer board. (Dealer terms for
these boards will be posted on www.yahoogroups.com/group/a1dealer).


FAQ's

What versions of Linux does the AmigaOnepoint5 run? The board currently
operates with TurboLinux PPC and we are currently sorting out an installation
of SuSE Linux for PPC.

Can I buy a version of the board for running Linux PPC only? We are currently
considering making this available. However you should note that it will not
be possible to run Amiga OS4 on such a board without purchasing a special
copy of OS4 which comes with a firmware update ROM. This is (obviously) to
prevent OS4 piracy which is essential if Hyperion/Amiga Inc. are to continue
to develop OS4.

Will MorphOS run on the board? The AmigaOnepoint5 is designed to run Amiga
OS4 & beyond, and Linux for PPC. It is likely that MorphOS could be made to
run on the AmigaOnepoint5 by someone committed to port it but that will not
be endorsed or supported by either us or Hyperion.

Where can I buy it? The AmigaOnepoint5 is being distributed on an 'Open
Distribution' model. That means that there will be no territorial or market
exclusives, and any bona fide incorporated body that can meet the
requirements in terms of technical support and minimum order quantities can
sell the AmigaOnepoint5 (and OS4). If you feel you qualify (or know a dealer
that ought to be interested) please see the dealer information page.

What sort of memory does it take? The board has 2no 184 pin SDRAM sockets
each capable of taking an 133MHz SDRAM DIMM of up to 1GB. DIMMs do nor have
to be of the same size, but should ideally be from the same mainstream
manufacturer and should be of the buffered variety.

Will I need the A1200/PCI bridge board? We anticipate that a 'fully
retargetable' version of OS4 - that is one without any Amiga chip set
dependencies - will be available with, or very soon after, the first public
release of OS4. This means that any applications software which does not rely
on the availability of specific Amiga hardware (or rely on specific drivers
that hit these chipsets) should work fine without the PCI-Amiga bridgeboard
in place. We are referring to these as 'Retargetable Applications', and in
general they are the applications which will run using add-on graphics,
sound, serial, parallel etc cards. Other applications which need access to
one or more specific Amiga chips to run - such as scrolling games and
programs like Scala - will need the bridge card present.

How does the Amiga/PCI bridge card work? Can you make one for my Amiga x000?
All Amigas (with a few minor exceptions) use a common memory map where the
specific chip register addresses, chip memory, Kickstart ROM etc are located.
These are all in the bottom 16 MB of the Amiga's memory map so they can be
accessed via the 24 bit address bus 680x0 CPUs used in early and low end
Amigas. The bridgeboard maps 16 MB of its address space to this 16 MB address
space of the A1200, providing address, data & control lines to read and write
to the chipset and I/O (eg parallel, serial, FDD, HDD, PCMCIA, etc)
registers. The PPC MMU maps the 16 MB of the PCI card's address space to the
lower 16 MB of address space in the emulator's memory map, so that any
application programs wanting to read or write to addresses in this region
will read and write to the actual Amiga chip set registers (ie as the
application programmer intended) via the PCI bridge. The interface between
the PCI card and A1200 edge connector will use special chips - similar to
those used in some microprocessor emulator boards - which ensure the
integrity of the data.

In theory we could also use the same PCI card with an A3000/A4000 CPU
connector (or possibly even an A2000 CPU socket header) to access the
chipsets in these machines. Whether these actually get built will depend on
the commercial case for doing so once volume boards are shipping.

What sort of tower case does the board need? The AmigaOnepoint5 board is a
full size ATX board and needs a 250W or greater ATX PSU. We recommend you
purchase the board first before selecting your tower, or buy it from an
official AmigaOnepoint5 dealer, either in component form or as a ready built
system. We recommend that a 'super-midi' sized tower (such as the T05AC model
which we sell) is used to give plenty of expansion space. Naya Design are
also producing some very stylish designs specifically for the AmigaOnepoint5
which will be available via us or you local dealer. Full details will be
posted after Easter.

I've already bought an A1200 tower in anticipation - what are you going to do
for me? The main reason behind the new design is to deliver much better
performance at a much lower price than was possible with the AmigaOne-1200
design. Although no price was actually released, our pricing indications were
that 'the AmigaOne-1200 would be comparable with the price a top end PPC
accelerator from phase5' - ie around UKP550/USD800/EUR900 ex VAT & shipping.
One of the means of delivering this better price performance is to allow the
AmigaOnepoint5 to use a standard ATX form factor case, not the
custom-modified, more expensive EZTower-Z4 / Elbox Tower / Power Tower etc.
Obviously, even if you buy a new tower now for the AmigaOnepoint5 and put
your custom Amiga tower out to grass, you have still made substantial savings
and performance gains over what the AmigaOne-1200 would have cost.

However for those customers who have purchased an A1200 tower direct from us
between 1st January 2001 and 15th March 2002 and who order an AmigaOnepoint5
board direct from us we will give you a brand new T05AC tower (without PSU
and clip on plastic panels which you can swap over from you existing
EZTower-Z4) free of charge.

Is the AmigaOnepoint5 the same as the MAI Teron Cx? No. During the period
leading up to the OS4 development agreement being signed we evaluated the
Articia S northbridge chip for possible use in a redesigned AmigaOne. We
concluded that it was the most cost-effective chip for the design and
proceeded to draw up some new specifications for an uprated, more
cost-effectively engineered AmigaOne, the AmigaOnepoint5. Clearly using the
Articia S instead of Escena's custom northbridge design meant that both the
schematic design and the PCB layout would be entirely new. MAI logic are a
chipset manufacturer, not a PPC motherboard manufacturer, but they had
commissioned a low volume, high cost evaluation board, the Teron Cx, to help
sell their chipsets. The Teron Cx was never designed to, or intended to, go
into volume production. We therefore asked them if they could recommend a
design company who was familiar with using the Articia S in PPC motherboard
design. They recommended the same (Far Eastern) company that designed their
Teron Cx evaluation board.

The new Eyetech AmigaOne design obviously shares a lot of commonality with
the Teron Cx board, but more than a cursory glance at the specifications (ATA
speed, integrated ethernet, custom firmware, number of active PCI/AGP slots
etc) - and the price - of both boards should be enough to convince most
people that they really are different designs.

However if you remain unconvinced you are of course perfectly welcome to
purchase the Teron Cx evaluation board. It costs $3900, misses many features
of the AmigaOnepoint5, and won't run OS4.

I bought a Party Pack and claim my $100! The Amiga DE SDK Party Pack is an
Amiga Inc. promotional program and has nothing directly to do with Eyetech,
Hyperion or any of the AmigaOnepoint5 dealers. Amiga Inc. will be handling
the administration of this program directly and will announce the procedures
to be followed when the AmigaOnepoint5 goes on sale in volume.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

>Even if you end up losing the case, if your competitor is bankrupt by the time it's over, in reality you've won.

also named Micro$oft tactic ? :)

Full support for Hyperion!
I love your AmigaOS 4.
I hope you can buy Amiga Inc. with DiscreetFX!!!

_________________
AmigaOne X1000 1,8 Ghz/2 GB Ram + Radeon 6670 2 GB + AmigaOS4.1
A4000T CyberstormPPC 604e-200Mhz/060/128MB+CybervisionPPC 8MB + AmigaOS4
and anymore other Amigas...

Quote:

That clause does not actually contradict what Hyperion have said.

So you think one can still collect royalties after one has transferred "all interest and title" in a thing?

You must have a different definition of "interest" than I do....

Quote:

In closing, we would like to remind dealers and other third parties that distribution of Amiga OS 4.0 without the prior permission of Hyperion VOF and certain third party developers is illegal under EU, US and international copyright legislation and therefore entirely at their own risk.

It may just be a case of this being written by someone who isn't a native English speaker, but the tone of this paragraph is very strange. If someone is proposing to widely distribute software that you own (or believe you own) you do not just say they do it 'at their own risk'.

That's the kind of phrase that's used when you disapprove, but can't do anything to stop what's going to happen. It seems like an incredibly weak response to Amiga Inc's very bold and blatant (if you accept Hyperion's OS4 ownership) statements.

_________________
Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

@DrBombcrater

So, who wrote the response?
Someone in the mail room?

Last time they replied, the response was clearly signed:
Quote:

Evert Carton Managing partner

Source:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3315

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

I want this over . . .

Don't trust A.Inc.

_________________
Avatar babe - Monica Bellucci.

Quote:

Since when did you start believing what Amiga Inc says? So now everything they say is true?

LOL! I think AInc. are a bunch of lying ####s (can I say ####s here?), but that doesn't mean everything they say is false; just the same if they produce evidence that some of what they say is true (which they have) that doesn't mean EVERYTHING they say is true.

My point is, the guy who was saying there is no evidence that AInc. followed thru with the buyback is wrong - there IS evidence, and part of that evidence is from Hyperion itself - the itemized receipt.

Quote:

Both sides are going to put forth "evidence" that supports their claims. Up to this point it has really been a one sided argument and frankly I don't trust that side.

I agree with you, and I'm totally looking forward to seeing what Hyperion provides to the court, because IMO they are lying ####s too. I want to see as much truth as possible fall out of this lawsuit. That's really the only good thing about it.

Go justice!

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

If this lawsuit covers only Trademark infringement, then we can probably expect addition cases to be filed specifically concerning ownership of other properties. If AmiInc wins this round, there may be more to follow, unless these two can find an agreement.

Plaz

Good news about continue of os4 and i hold my thumbs for ya.

Even though I don't like the lawsuit, I won't comment on who should win it. I know too little about the whole matter.

BUT HEY GUYS!! - look at the bright side....NOW WE HAVE TWO COMPANIES FIGHTING FOR AMIGA OS!!

_________________
On Planet Boing Trevor is God

Is anyone else detecting a pattern here? It seems that everyone that has business dealings with AInc goes to court.

I sure hope that both companies settle their differences soon. I don' t want to die of old age before I get to see Amigas back on sale.

Hyperion - Good luck and looking forward to OS4.01!

AInc - Wish you luck, but I do hope you can work this out without destroying the only company that has given us something touchable that runs on an Amiga. I would encourage you to look to Hyperion for future work as they do produce.

If I were AInc, I would draw up a new contract with Hyperion for OS5, and use the Indian company to write needed applications such as a browser or even start getting them involved in portions of the OS that are too time consuming for Hyperion to do the work.

I don't see how Hyperion can win this court case, but I realy hope they do.

It is obvious that Amiga Inc. is only interested in the name "Amiga" and not the operating system. If Amiga Inc. wins, AmigaOS as we know it will almost certainly disapear.

If Amiga Inc. wins in court, there is only one thing left that can save our favorite OS: Someone has to buy Amiga Inc.

Kind regards,

Dennis

There is nothing to Win here. The only thing that Amiga Inc can do is to cloud any contribution to OS 4.0 with the infringement brush. Thus no developer who worked on anything for OS4.0 would be able to use any of their own work on any platform without getting permission from Amiga Inc.They would be under this cloud for a long time. Their only option is to have Hyperion sort out the situation or work directly for Amiga INC unless they plan to abandon their contributions to OS 4.0 .

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@jthomas

It is one of their tactics, but they're not the only ones. You're probably not aware of it since you're in Italy, but a large USA telephone company (Verizon) is trying right now to use that same tactic to kill a competitor who uses VOIP (Vonage).