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News   News : Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
   posted by samface on 16-Mar-2004 4:54:36 (13540 reads)
Amiga Inc. has returned to the court, backed up with legal representation, new evidence and testimonies.

Update: Judge Robert S. Lasnik has replied to a motion (49) by Plaintiff Thendic Electronics Components to modify the order, granting specific performance. The judge denied extention of the License Agreement to include other operating systems other than the AmigaDE.

Update: MOTION for Relief from Judgment by Defendant Amiga Inc. Entered: 03/19/2004


With these resources, the defendant Amiga Inc. has managed to come up with a response to plaintiff's motion to modify order granting specific performance and no less than six declarations!

Among the names of those who have filed a declaration are:
Barrie J. Moss AKA "Fleecy" (Amiga Inc.), Evert Carton (Hyperion), Garry Hare (KMOS), Ray A. Akey (Amiga Inc.) and Bill McEwen (Amiga Inc.).

Notably, Ray A. Akey filed 11 new exhibits (exhibit A-J) along with his declaration, which are recurringly refered to throughout the defendant's response and declarations.

You can read all about it here:
http://www.mindrelease.net/amiga-thendic
    

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GregS 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 9:10:41
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: Perth Australia

@Orgin

Quote:
Saying this as a person with very little knowledge of the legal system spoken about : At the very least it looks like AmigaDE must be ported due to earlier rulings. Anything beyond that is up to the court (Ie what happens with BBRV's claims of AmigaOS, ADE sourcecode etc).


This would be true, unless of course the court has been mislead, that could overturn the ruling. But there is another side. Bill Buck/Thendic apppealed the ruling themselves -- this changes things for Amiga strangely enough.

Having got a ruling in its favour Bill Buck/Thendic have decided to guild the lilly and apply for a change in the ruling. At the sametime Amiga comes up and disputes the ruling (as part of the appeal process) and the charges a potential misleading of the court -- the lot combines to bring the ruling into joint dispute, which means the old ruling is not just being appealed but re-heard (silly Thendic they would have narrowed the entrance by not themselves trying to change the ruling, but now they have, everything is up for grabs).

At this stage no final ruling is determined (effectively the interim ruling has been dissolved -- a step beyond simple appeal). Reading the documents, (the amiga dispositions) it will be very hard for Thendic to roll-back on all its claims, which now work against it, because they have so over-extended their claim and got the judge to agree with them (in general) they have brought the court into a different problem, the judge must now be doubly vigilent that they have not been mislead by one of the parties, if they have then they have tro protect the court by whatever means seems suitable.

In short, the problem of the vexatious ligitant raises its head, that is by bringing in other ambitions and ploys outside the case strictly defined they have poisoned their own gains, by pressing for even more they have exposed their vexatious ambitions and this does not work for you in court cases, it a classical grounds for legal duplicity and can in itself be enoughg to snuff-out any legitmate claims (this all goes to the issue of the good-faith in signing the original documents -- a lack of which renders such documents void.

Aayhow all interesting stuff, but not I think if you are Thendic.


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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

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Bobsonsirjonny 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 9:35:31
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2003
Posts: 2880
From: Unknown

Edited by DaveP - flamebait



Sorry...

blame it on the lack of sleep

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royleith 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 9:42:31
#23 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 765
From: UK

@Orgin
To use a well worn phrase from another place; I Am Not A Lawyer (IANAL). Reading the declarations (other than Uncle Bill's) I put two and two together and make the following hundred's of points. The claims seem to be;

1) The plaintifs bringing this case to court do not exist at the address stated in their submissions to court.

2) Amiga DE is not Amiga OS.

3) Amiga DE is an addition to intent to support content and cannot exist in its own right.

4) A licence for the use of intent is not in the gift of Amiga Inc. and cannot be given by them to Thendic.

5) intent requires a hardware abstraction layer to work with platforms and operating systems.

6) The complainants did not act in good faith by delivering a sample and technical details of the hardware and operating systems of the Pegasos. (The implication of this and the first point is that it is likely that the plaintifs will make it impossible for A Inc. to fulfil the original court directions).

7) Amiga Inc. acted in good faith as evidenced by the attempts to deliver correspondence to the plaintiffs.

So, what has Bill contracted to buy? I seem to remember a recent Genesi comment that he had obtained a licence for intent (although, TAO did not confirm that in their declaration). Does a DE come with a hardware abstraction layer, or is this what you have to do for yourself to support intent on your chosen hardware and operating system?

I suspect that Bill will get far less from all this than he ever expected and that he certainly won't get the Classic Amiga OS. For now, I want to think about what the takeover of the Classic Amiga OS by Gary Hare's KMOS company will mean to the boingers. Do you remember Gary Hare's 'I'm in charge' campaign, last year. Is he the right man to cosset my beloved operating system?

Regards
Roy Leith

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falemagn 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 10:07:30
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

Quote:

3) Amiga DE is an addition to intent to support content and cannot exist in its own right.

4) A licence for the use of intent is not in the gift of Amiga Inc. and cannot be given by them to Thendic.


Then Amiga Inc. has to explain why a port of AmigaDE, in the contract they have with Thendic (and passed on to Genesi), was contemplated to the device discussed in that contract and also to other future devices (under certain conditions which don't matter to the point I'm making).

I mean, if they now claim they are in NO condition to do such a port, how could they ever sign the aforementioned contract?


_________________
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

~~ Henry Ford

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Bobsonsirjonny 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 10:20:08
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2003
Posts: 2880
From: Unknown

IIRC correctly the handshelds thendic were planning ran WinCE - IIRC DE already runs on that.

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royleith 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 10:28:32
#26 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 765
From: UK

@falemagn

Quote:
I mean, if they now claim they are in NO condition to do such a port, how could they ever sign the aforementioned contract?


IANAL, but AFAIK Ainc already had the abstraction layer for Windows CE which was the initial target given in the contract. All Thendic would need is the copies of the intent binaries (licencees are not permitted to see the source code) and to obtain the intent licence.

The Fleecy declaration indicates (and, only indicates) that Ainc would have done the work to port the whole thing to Pegasos if Thendic had supplied the board, operating system and technical details. They imply that, now, Thendic have made it impossible to fulfill the contract and to comply with the court findings which are, in any event, disputed by the plaintifs.

So, we see nothing from either side about the capability of AInc. to fulfill the contract at the time it was signed. For all I know, AInc were down to their last dollar and unable to pay the programmers to do the work. I just draw what I can from the information made available to the court.

Regards
Roy Leith

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falemagn 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 10:32:52
#27 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

Quote:

The Fleecy declaration indicates (and, only indicates) that Ainc would have done the work to port the whole thing to Pegasos if Thendic had supplied the board, operating system and technical details.


But Thendic (Genesi) did offer the board, operating system and technical details. Heck, Genesi even gave boards around for free to open source developers!


_________________
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

~~ Henry Ford

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Amon_Re 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 10:42:04
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 27-Nov-2003
Posts: 427
From: Belgium

Quote:
But Thendic (Genesi) did offer the board, operating system and technical details. Heck, Genesi even gave boards around for free to open source developers!


They offered one to Hyperion, but i don't recall them offering one to Ainc.

Also, they claim they attempted to deliver one, yet offer no proof of that, while Ainc offers UPS chipment labels as proof that they could not reach BBRV at the designated address.

Wether or not Genesi offered a board or not is irelevant if they can't prove it.

Cheers


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Amighista 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 10:56:52
#29 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Oct-2003
Posts: 62
From: Unknown

Quote:
But Thendic (Genesi) did offer the board, operating system and technical details


"To offer" is different from "to give". Of course, it's Genesi's duty to demonstrate they really GAVE Ainc all things needed to do the port.

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Chris_Y 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 11:09:49
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3176
From: Beds, UK

Go Amiga!


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"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

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falemagn 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 11:13:27
#31 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

Quote:

They offered one to Hyperion, but i don't recall them offering one to Ainc.


All they had to do was asking for one. Did they?


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It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

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trgse 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 11:18:46
#32 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 315
From: tellus

why should they ask for one?


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falemagn 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 11:35:46
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

Quote:

why should they ask for one?


Because it went like this:


Genesi: hey, would you port ADE to the Peg?
Amiga: no
Genesi: why?
Amiga: won't tell you
Genesi: ok, will sue you


Instead it should have gone like this:


Genesi: hey, would you port ADE to the Peg?
Amiga: sure, just gimme the board
Genesi: ok, great, here it is!


See, in the former case AInc didn't give reasonable motive to not port ADE to the Peg, and infact the judge decided Genesi was right and AInc was wrong. (please, don't say it was a default judgment right away, go read the 2nd page of the judgement first)

In the latter case, instead, everything would have gone fine, IF all AInc wanted was a board.


_________________
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

~~ Henry Ford

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Rogue 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 11:45:28
#34 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

Quote:
All they had to do was asking for one. Did they?


At least Hyperion did, back in 2001 at the show in Neuss. The answer was "no, we don't want official OS 4 support". We tried to get a board later when they started their "in two weeks" developer programme, and never got a confirmation that they actually received their order. MOS supporters said "there are more important people that should receive a board".

Later on, BBRV wanted to give us a board but no specs ("support OpenFirmware, that should be enough"). Yeah, sure.

I'm sorry, but things don't work through bulletin boards. Up to now, to the best of my knowledge there never was a formal query on getting OS 4 to the Pegasos or Pegasos II.

Not that I have a problem with that - they're entitled to think what they want about OS 4 and its importance. I only have a problem with people shouting about how they are going to unite the market and seek to undermine the competition not by fair competiton but by noise and FUD.


_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

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Rogue 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 11:59:20
#35 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

Quote:
Because it went like this:


If I may be so bold, where did you get that info from? Unless you have proof to back this up, or someone to testify, this is a rather big claim. Most obviously, saying "it went like this" indicates you have this.

Or is this only hearsay?


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Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

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Anonymous 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 12:03:34
# ]



"Later on, BBRV wanted to give us a board but no specs ("support OpenFirmware, that should be enough"). Yeah, sure."

So does that mean MorphOS works on Mac On Linux?

 
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KimmoK 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 12:11:32
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5205
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

"I have a good feeling things will work out well for us!"
There should be no "us" or "them". I think we need to be friends to survive, no matter what happens and how sh*tty brand management AOS/MOS has.


_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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Quixote 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 12:17:08
#38 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Jun-2003
Posts: 481
From: Unknown

@ KimmoK:

You have a point, there. It would be really neat if the community would draw together again after this. Whether we will remains to be seen.


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falemagn 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 12:29:09
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

Quote:

At least Hyperion did, back in 2001 at the show in Neuss. The answer was "no, we don't want official OS 4 support". We tried to get a board later when they started their "in two weeks" developer programme, and never got a confirmation that they actually received their order. MOS supporters said "there are more important people that should receive a board".


Well, if they didn't want AOS4, then there's no issue...

Quote:

Later on, BBRV wanted to give us a board but no specs ("support OpenFirmware, that should be enough"). Yeah, sure.


... but asking to be treated differently than the rest of the others, doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Other people ported their OSs with informations which you could have gotten hold of too, doesn't seem that impossible task you want to make it sound.

So, to summarize, what you say is that Genesi did offer you the board, but you refused.


_________________
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

~~ Henry Ford

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falemagn 
Re: Amiga vs Thendic Update: Amiga is Back!
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 12:30:13
#40 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

Quote:

If I may be so bold, where did you get that info from?


Courtcases?

Feel free to point out any mistakes I've made.


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It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

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