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Software News   Software News : Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
   posted by PressTamar on 7-May-2006 10:18:19 (4754 reads)
It is done!

Finally, after 8 months of work, we are proud to present Tales of Tamar in HiRES 2D!

The new client of our massively multiplayer strategy and roleplaying game is running at a resolution of 1024*768 with double buffering in 15 bit, 16 and 32 bit, as well as the usual 640*480/8 bit.




Therefore, Tales of Tamar is working on all Amiga systems starting with an A1200 with 030 accelerator board up to the most recent systems and also takes advantage of the faster hardware of Amithlon, AmigaOne, Pegasos or UAE setups.

A few (older) screenshots can be found here:

Screenshots

The engine has been improved meanwhile, of course.

Unfortunately, Amiga computers are reaching their limits here. To use the HiRES map, a 060 processor and a fast graphics card is required. If your system doesn't meet the requirements, you can always go back to 640*480, though.

Our experiences regarding speed are as follows:


A1200 AGA
------------
640*480/8bit = yes
1024*768/15bit =no
1024*768/16bit =no
1024*768/32bit =no

AGA cannot display 1024*768 and would be too slow anyway.

A500/A1200/A2000/A3000/ graphics card/ 030 or 040
-----------------------------------------------------------
640*480/8bit = yes
1024*768/15bit =no
1024*768/16bit =no
1024*768/32bit =no

The processor is to slow for the HiRES map.

A500/A1200/A2000/A3000/ 4 MB graphics card ZII/ 060
-----------------------------------------------------------
640*480/8bit = yes
1024*768/15bit =yes/no
1024*768/16bit =yes/no
1024*768/32bit =no

The map is working in 15 or 16 bit, but is not particularly fast, since the speed is limited by the Zorro-II bus. 32 bit does not work due to insuffient graphics memory.

A1200/A3000/A4000 4 MB graphics card ZIII/ 060
-----------------------------------------------------------
640*480/8bit = yes
1024*768/15bit =yes/no
1024*768/16bit =yes/no
1024*768/32bit =no

The HiRES map works in 15/16 bit with a well maintained and optimized OS installed.

A3000/A4000 >=8 MB graphics card PCI/ 060 + PPC
-----------------------------------------------------------
640*480/8bit = yes
1024*768/15bit =yes/no
1024*768/16bit =yes/no
1024*768/32bit =yes/no

The HiRES map is working, but is not particularly fast. Usable with a well maintained and optimized OS.

Pegasos/AmigaOne/WinUAE/Amithlon
-----------------------------------------------------------
640*480/8bit = yes
1024*768/15bit =yes
1024*768/16bit =yes
1024*768/32bit =yes

Only time will show if these results can be improved, but this probably won't happen without using Assembler, and it is doubtful is the support for the project is big enough to justify the effort.

After our last call for testers, we found about 40 users, of which only a small fraction actually tested. So if you want to see the project maintained on the Amiga, join us and help. Otherwise, we may not be able to root out all the bugs.


Now the new features and bugfixes:


New features:

- HiRES mode activated
- 24 bit support added
- auto conversion of 8 bit graphics added
- Esc in the residence exists to the title screen now
- Input-Handler rewritten
- Works with OS4 Pre 4
- FTP-Download doesn't block the mouse anymore
- map screen optimized
- ToT uses expansion.library to determine whether it runs on a OS4 Classic system or an AmigaOne (thanks to Stephan Rupprecht!)
- faster laoding on some systems
- text labels don't disappear when scrolling
- large code parts on the map support ppc, unfortunately no great improvements in speed with WarpOS
- numbers of workers don't disappear when scrolling
- new catalogs

Bugfixes:

- FTP-Code improved and fixed
- Workaround for MOS-BlitBug in CGX V5 added
- WarpUp unter OS4 deaktivated, since itwas actually slower than 68k emulation
- many other bugs fixed

known bugs:

- packed24 modes don't work
- possible font errors under OS4 (reason yet unknown)
- CGX V4 ColorFonts >8bit don't support transparence
- CGX V3 hasn't been tested, possibly color errors (we need testers for this!)
- module player could have issues under OS4 (again, we need testers for this)

Path: http://www.tamar.net/bin/ToT_Amiga_V0.55_R1.lha
Size: 16.319.118 Bytes

The current 2D HiRES map is an important step towards the coming 3D map, which is currently implemented on the PC version, to avoid both incompatibilities and delays due to missing testers. This was an important step for us. Now a few personal words: The 2D HiRES map is my very own "thank you" to the Amiga computer, which has been with me for the bigger part of my life so far. For now, it will mark the crowning achievement for the game, and further development can only take place if we can find enough players to keep the game alive.

The HiRES 3D map will be a step at least as big as the 2D map, and is simply required to have a lot of testers to make it work. Just one example: We have only had 2 or 3 really active testers for OS4. As a result, bugs that are not obvious will be found late or not at all. We hope that the support from the Amiga community will improve little in the future.

My thanks go to Stephan Rupprecht with whom I had long dicussions on the how and why of blitting which resulted in better and smoother performance of ToT. Thank you, Stephan! You weren't enthused but still you listened, for weeks on end.

Thanks to Wolfgang Vogel for his PPC board, since mine were both broken again. I wouldn't have been able to finish this version without it.

Also thanks to Frank Mariak, who was always helpful about CGX problems. I hope CGX will see some new developments again.

I would also like to thank the whole OS4 team and the MOS team for their support.

What will be next?

The HiRES 2D map has been ported to the PC, where is will be tested some more and then released as well.

The Mac version will takeover the finished sources and also implement the HiRES map.

We signed a contract with a new programmer, Richard Drummond, who will work on ToT for Linux PPC and x86 and possibly Zeta. Richard has been
working on OS4 before, and has already completed a first version of ToT for Linux. He has received the sources for the HiRES map as well
and will try adapt the Linux version for it.

Last but not least, we found a known and capable author. She has looked into the history of Arbanor and will write a book about Tales
of Tamar. With this, we are picking up an idea from the last millenium.

However, we are still looking for help to speed up development, in particular:

- pixel artists, for 2D map hexagons and GUI improvements
- 3D object designer and texture artists
- assembler programmers to optimized the 68k code
- musicians for digibooster/fasttracker modules
- translators for portuguese
- PHP programmers to support the browser version
- programmers to improve the Amiga Installer script
    

Related Links
· More about Software News
· News by PressTamar


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PosterThread
Rudei 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 7-May-2006 10:36:26
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3585
From: Dallas, Texas

Good work.

To OS4 users, if there are any willing individuals to test, please step forward.

@PressTamar

Can you sign me up as a tester for future developments?

Rude!


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Framiga 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 7-May-2006 12:32:18
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jul-2003
Posts: 2212
From: Unknown

Although not beeing a gamer myself, your doing a gorgeous job, indeed.

Great job


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AmigaClyde 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 7-May-2006 17:02:26
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Noranda Canada

Great work. Hope to see a released version soon.


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firbodi 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 7-May-2006 17:19:14
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2003
Posts: 1046
From: Planet Earth!

Great job! So much improvement!

Quote:

- WarpUp under OS4 deactivated, since it was actually slower than 68k emulation


This is weird! I had heard this before, but I don't understand why this is happening. Can it be because WarpUp PPC code is not optimized whereas 68K is?

Quote:

- possible font errors under OS4 (reason yet unknown)


I'm just shooting in the dark here, but I remember some other applications didn't work with OS4 fonts because of blanks in the font names. Could it be the problem?

Thanks,
Firbodi


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Anonymous 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 7-May-2006 18:56:07
# ]



@firbodi

Quote:
Quote:
- WarpUp under OS4 deactivated, since it was actually slower than 68k emulation

This is weird! I had heard this before, but I don't understand why this is happening.
The versions of the OS4 powerpc.library which were released in Update3 and Update4 are unusable slow on 750 CPUs since I had a G4 CPU (where it's fast enough) when I built these old versions and I never got any bugreports about the slow speed on G3 CPUs.

Quote:
Can it be because WarpUp PPC code is not optimized whereas 68K is?
No, it's just the cache flushes of the WarpUP code, most of them weren't even required on classic Amigas, the worst example is probably FxPaint (at least the demo version of it). On G4 CPUs that's no big problem, but on 750 CPUs they are very slow.

 
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Wolfen 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 7-May-2006 19:08:41
#6 ]
New Member
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 7
From: Unknown

@AmigaClyde

Tales of Tamar was released in 2002, dude

Since then we made the game better and better. Isnt that true amiga love ?

Regards
Wolfen

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SoundSquare 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 7-May-2006 19:32:45
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2006
Posts: 253
From: Unknown

still late when most AmigaOne and Pegasos users are running their desktops at 1280x1024.


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Wolfen 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 7-May-2006 19:40:49
#8 ]
New Member
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 7
From: Unknown

@SoundSquare

hmm. So you think its not possible or not worth for a AmigaOne or Pegasos user to play a game in 1024*768 mode ? I must think about that.

Damn, i should develop a game in 1600*1200 next time. Not important if it is to slow or not.

Regards
Wolfen

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spotUP 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 7-May-2006 21:46:53
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 2896
From: Up Rough Demo Squad

i could never get my version to work nicely under aos4, i will give this new version a shot!
thanx for still updating it!


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tomazkid 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 7-May-2006 22:02:38
#10 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

Quote:
Damn, i should develop a game in 1600*1200 next time.


Yes, please


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Wolfen 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 7-May-2006 22:02:53
#11 ]
New Member
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 7
From: Unknown

@spotUP

try it. But dont forget to install the base archiv before! First 0.53 then this update!

If you have any question feel free to contact me in the ToT forum. Each problem can be solved.

Regards
Wolfen

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Moxee 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 8-May-2006 1:18:04
#12 ]
Team Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 6291
From: County Yakima, WA State, USA

Sounds like you are doing a fine job. My hat is off to you.

I know people go crazy for games, but I have never been a game player myself.

I hope more people decide to help test for bugs.

_________________________
Moxee


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pure_Amiga 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 8-May-2006 1:57:01
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Nov-2005
Posts: 152
From: Planet earth

Quote:
Quote:

- WarpUp under OS4 deactivated, since it was actually slower than 68k emulation

This is weird! I had heard this before, but I don't understand why this is happening.

Quote:
The versions of the OS4 powerpc.library which were released in Update3 and Update4 are unusable slow on 750 CPUs since I had a G4 CPU (where it's fast enough) when I built these old versions and I never got any bugreports about the slow speed on G3 CPUs.


Does this mean that WarpUp games like WipeOut will be unplayble slow on the 603/604 CPUs, under OS4?


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Anonymous 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 8-May-2006 2:40:29
# ]



@pure_Amiga

Quote:
Does this mean that WarpUp games like WipeOut will be unplayble slow on the 603/604 CPUs, under OS4?
No idea, if it's unplayable slow on AmigaOS 3.x+WarpOS it will be unplayable slow on AmigaOS4 as well, it's probably not much faster on AmigaOS4. But I can't test it myself, although I have an A4000 with CSPPC I don't have a 3D gfx card for it and unlike most other 3D games WipeOut doesn't support software rendering.

 
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pure_Amiga 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 8-May-2006 4:49:25
#15 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Nov-2005
Posts: 152
From: Planet earth

@joerg

Quote:
No idea, if it's unplayable slow on AmigaOS 3.x+WarpOS it will be unplayable slow on AmigaOS4 as well,

This game specifically, is not very demanding like H2 for example, so it's fairly playble on AOS 3.x+WarpOS. (As long as you have a 3D capable graphics card)
Quote:
it's probably not much faster on AmigaOS4.

Mmm... this doesn't sound very good to me. I would be very disappointed if it's true. :-/
One of the reasons for me to use AOS4, would be to get some extra fps from 3D, hardware demanding games...
Quote:
But I can't test it myself, although I have an A4000 with CSPPC I don't have a 3D gfx card for it and unlike most other 3D games WipeOut doesn't support software rendering.

Ok. If you are interested you could try the demos of FreeSpace and Heretic 2. Iirc, they support software rendering.

Last edited by pure_Amiga on 08-May-2006 at 04:50 AM.


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aldur 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 8-May-2006 20:07:02
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Oct-2003
Posts: 1273
From: Birmingham, UK

PHP developer here willing to help Have just signed up via the site looks really cool love the 3d map view the flash movie


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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 9-May-2006 15:05:05
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11415
From: Norway

Quote:

This game specifically, is not very demanding like H2 for example, so it's fairly playble on AOS 3.x+WarpOS. (As long as you have a 3D capable graphics card)

Quote:

Mmm... this doesn't sound very good to me. I would be very disappointed if it's true. :-/




Way do you think your 604 CPU is going to be any faster on OS4?

WarpUP programs are in fact emulated, native OS4 PPC programs will run faster then WarpUP programs, one thing your going to get whit OS4 on classic is faster OS that’s all, opening windows, listing files, rendering icons, AHI, TCP/IP transferee between computers, any thing that uses native libraries is going to get faster.

Quote:
One of the reasons for me to use AOS4, would be to get some extra fps from 3D, hardware demanding games...


You better invest your money on the fastest graphics card you can get for OS4.


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Anonymous 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 9-May-2006 17:47:41
# ]



@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Way do you think your 604 CPU is going to be any faster on OS4?
For 3D games his gfx board would have to get faster on OS4

Quote:
WarpUP programs are in fact emulated, native OS4 PPC programs will run faster then WarpUP programs
OS4 native programs are faster becasue they are PPC-only, all WarpUP software includes m68k parts which have to be emulated on OS4 and they do a lot of cache flushes which aren't required on OS4 which makes them slow especially on 750 CPUs, but the PPC part of WarpUP software of course isn't emulated on OS4.

 
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Toaks 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 9-May-2006 19:39:15
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8042
From: amigaguru.com

Wolfen: looks amazing, i wish i could start playing again but beeing a os4 betatester and playing at the same time..is a bad combo for now, but i will contact you soon enough!.

keep up the great work you (and your team) always do!.


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pure_Amiga 
Re: Tales of Tamar: Now in HiRes for Amiga!
Posted on 10-May-2006 2:00:38
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Nov-2005
Posts: 152
From: Planet earth

Quote:
Way do you think your 604 CPU is going to be any faster on OS4?

Ehm... NO.
But i DO expect from a PPC NATIVE OS in which there are no CPU context switches and every important element like the exec, the graphics system etc, etc are PPC native to give a performance boost to HW demanding games!... Especially if these games are PPC coded and not 68k..
MorphOS for example gives a small boost to these games. Like an extra 2-5 fps on the Wipeout although i'm not very pleased by MOS overall performance (but hey, it's free!) and i used to expect that OS4 could cope better with this things...
I don't believe that there something wrong with my logic.


Quote:
Quote:
One of the reasons for me to use AOS4, would be to get some extra fps from 3D, hardware demanding games...

You better invest your money on the fastest graphics card you can get for OS4.

That would be a Mediator with a Voodoo and a good Amiga tower. Lot's of money and i'm not sure if the performance increase will be big enough to justify such purchase. Just look at this thread: http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id=30510&forum=8

Last edited by pure_Amiga on 10-May-2006 at 02:09 AM.


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