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Software News   Software News : Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
   posted by JamieKrueger on 25-Aug-2006 20:32:54 (7037 reads)

This is a real chance for the entire Amiga community to gain FREE professional visual development tools for the next generation of their favorite operating system. Help make this a reality by becoming a FREEAVD Sponsor today. Plus, as a bonus for each sponsor who contributes a total of US $200 to this project, will receive a full licensed copy of the AVD Suite v1.0 (Commercial Version). This license may also be donated to your favorite developer if you choose not to make use of it.



Read more...


The FREEAVD project requires a minimum of 300 sponsors at the COPPER (or $10/Month) level before it's development can be committed to. It's development will be accomplished in parallel with the full commercial version of the Advanced Visual Developer Suite.

For more information or to become a FREEAVD sponsor, check out the website at:
www.bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com/freeavd

Best Regards,

Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
    

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PosterThread
RWO 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 25-Aug-2006 23:24:47
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 457
From: Denmark

I'm really interested in a Complete IDE for OS4...

I have checkout the AutoDoc viewer and was pleasent supriced over the quality of program, if the rest of the project is just as good its gonna be a killer App.

Paying $200 for the complete Suite is a little much in one go, so I singed up to be a sponsor and I'm planning to stay aleast tell I get a full copy or the project is dead (hope it woun't come to that)

RWO


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gregthecanuck 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 25-Aug-2006 23:34:40
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 844
From: Vancouver, Canada

Just signed up.

Thanks Jamie.

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weirdami 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 2:00:17
#3 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2003
Posts: 231
From: Unknown

What is meant by "visual development tools"?

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JamieKrueger 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 2:54:14
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2004
Posts: 147
From: From the BITbyBIT lab: USA

Quote:
What is meant by "visual development tools"?

Primarily, "visual" in this case refers to programming environments
which allow you to use graphical interface based applications
and simple "point and click" and "drag and drop" programming
techniques to assemble complete programs.

If that sounds a lot like trading one buzz-word for another, (or
in fact several), just think of it like this:

1.) You can design your own GUIs (Graphical User Interfaces)
for your application using an easy to use program, with no
prior knowledge Intuition/ReAction programming.

FREEAVD will write the code for you.

2.) You can connect your application's GUI to program actions,
operating system library calls, or even you own C functions,
again using simple "point and click" interfaces.

FREEAVD will write and or glue your actions together for you.

3.) You can build your program into a final runtime executable
by the press of a button.

FREEAVD with write and manage the Makefiles and GCC build
commands for you.

This is just a small taste of what this software is targeted to do,
but in every case the idea is that all the pieces that make up writing
an application for AmigaOS4(tm) are created and maintained via a
"Visual" suite of tools. You should be able to do everything through
the software and not be forced to switch out of it to do some step
via the command line (shell).

Please take a look at the AVD Suite for an example of what to expect:
www.bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com/avd/

I hope this answers your question.

Best Regards,
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC


_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

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stychokiller 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 4:30:09
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2003
Posts: 213
From: Slayton, MN, USA

I wish Bit-by-Bit all the best in their endeavours.

However, I do have some words of advice:
Do not try to emulate any of the IDEs that have gone before, especially any from Linux or MicroSoft.
Get a copy of the "Amiga User Interface Style Guide" and stick to their recommendations.

I've used Qt Designer (linux), VisualBasic 6 (Microsoft) and both have serious design flaws in their GUIs.
I've also used several attempts by various programmers to implement IDEs on the Amiga platform.
ClassAct, Reactor and StormC were badly done, because they tried to emulate VisualBasic as far as I could tell.

I myself have written several programs that are designed to make programming on the Amiga platform easier, such as ProgrammerAssistPPC, RoboDocBuilderPPC, GTBTranslatorPPC, so I know that something like FreeAVD is needed for the Amiga.

Two pieces of software that got it right for the Amiga were CanDo! and GadToolsBox.
GadToolsBox only created the code for the GUI, whereas CanDo! could create an entire standalone
application. Unfortunately, Innovatronics went out fo business, so CanDo! is no longer published or
updated.

I really hate how some programs written for running under Windows seem to think that countless
options, menu selections and screens full of buttons are somehow going to make their program
more useful to the User. This so-called "Feature-Rich" mentality just means more confusion
and a steeper learning curve for anyone using such a program. Also unfortunately, a log of programs
written for Linux seem to think that by following Windows programmers' lead that they will somehow
make programs that make Windows Users want to run to the Linux sphere.

One of the things that make the Amiga unique has been the SIMPLICITY of the OS and the programs
that run on it. Remember to keep it simple please.


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Toaks 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 5:51:13
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8042
From: amigaguru.com

jamie: hope to see more pictures and info about the AVD etc soon.

ps:yes i will sign up too for this new one


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Yssing 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 7:09:53
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1012
From: Unknown

Great :) I think that word sums it up for me.... This kind of software is needed.


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ChrisH 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 9:04:26
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

I'm sure that there is no chance of it, but it would be nice if some of the AVD suite worked on classic Amigas (and under emulation), because of the difficulty of obtaining OS4 hardware. As it is, I think that AmiDevCpp is the only thing which can compile OS4 PPC binaries on another platform (in this case Windows).


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Toaks 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 10:41:50
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8042
From: amigaguru.com

chrisH: regarding HARDWARE there wont be a problem when AVD is in final stages for sure...or maybe not but i'd rather not hear about theese HW discussions every time .


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Srbin 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 11:25:39
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Dec-2004
Posts: 407
From: Serbia

Will there be MOS or even better AROS version? I read on your site that you are aiming it only to OS4, but i am way too pesimistic for A1 and i am not going to buy one.


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TrevorDick 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 12:26:04
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2667
From: Wellington

I am already signed up to your scheme, but I will make another donation.

TrevorDick


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AmigaMac 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 13:35:34
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 1026
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

Jamie,

How is the business doing? I surely hope for all the best for you and your venture.


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Toaks 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 13:39:45
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8042
From: amigaguru.com

trevor:but this is another scheme it seems.

i finished the old one some time ago so i just started this new one as its worth it imo.


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Dirk-B 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 15:12:46
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1180
From: Belgium

Ok, one more sponsor.

Come on guys, we need a few more.


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Troels 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 15:36:12
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1983
From: Unknown

Great idea!


I think it's really nice to see a company/developer with both a good idea and a business plan.

I'm not a developer myself but I might make a donation when I get my Paypal account in order (got problems with my password).

Someone should adapt this way of doing business for a browser project (Marcik..?).

Best regards
Troels


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JamieKrueger 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 15:59:33
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2004
Posts: 147
From: From the BITbyBIT lab: USA

@stychokiller

I could not agree with you more, especially on this point:
Quote:
I really hate how some programs written for running under Windows seem to think that countless
options, menu selections and screens full of buttons are somehow going to make their program
more useful to the User. This so-called "Feature-Rich" mentality just means more confusion
and a steeper learning curve for anyone using such a program. Also unfortunately, a log of programs
written for Linux seem to think that by following Windows programmers' lead that they will somehow
make programs that make Windows Users want to run to the Linux sphere.

I am striving to create development tools that respond, feel and flow like
a true Amiga program should. Having used most of the environments you
mentioned myself, I have also seen some horrible design issues with most
of them. I will try hard not to inherit their mistakes, and keep AVD and FREEAVD
distinctly "Amiga" applications.

As far as the "Amiga User Interface Style Guide" goes, I would love to get
another copy, especially now. I have located nearly two complete sets of
the RKRMs (3rd Edition), but no Style Guide among them.
I'm sure I lost it somewhere along the line.

Anyway, I have located 3 used copies on amazon.com for around $20.00 and one
*new* one for like $51.00. I will most likely place an order for a used one from there
unless someone here has a better line on getting a copy to me in the USA.

Best Regards,

Jamie


_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

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JamieKrueger 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 16:05:24
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2004
Posts: 147
From: From the BITbyBIT lab: USA

@Toaks

Thanks again Toaks for the continued support.

Quote:
jamie: hope to see more pictures and info about the AVD etc soon.

I'll see what I can do about getting a further AVD update
out there soon as well.

Best Regards,

Jamie


_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

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cgutjahr 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 16:41:19
#18 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 888
From: Unknown

@JamieKrueger

First of all, I have a lot of respect for your dedication, and judging by various comments I heard so far, the quality of your work is pretty good aswell.

But I don't think this going to work, and I even have some doubts about your approach.

You're basically asking the community to pay you a monthly salary of $3000 for working on AVD. You don't specify any estimated release dates (a rather important detail, even if if it's very hard to predict), but lets say it will take you 12 months to finish AVD 1.0. In that case, the sponsors would have to pay $36000 upfront - that's quite a lot of money for such a tiny comunity. Mozilla and KHTML, both projects way more important for the average user, managed to collect 'only' $12000 and $4000.

You're the only person working on a visual development studio - there are way too much things that could go wrong, delay the release etc. The whole thing is way to risky and way to expensive for my taste.

Additionally, if your approach works (i.e. you get enough funding) one could describe your relationship to your sponsors as "JamieKrueger was hired by the community do develop AVD". In a traditional employee/employer relationship, the employer owns the employee's creation afterwards. But in this case, you get paid upfront to create AVD and you're going to be the owner of the IP created during the time you've been paid. This strikes me as somewhat odd.

Sorry for being negative, I'd rather support the noble cause of creating an IDE that meets today's requirements and is taylor-made for AmigaOS, but there are way too many questions and stumbling blocks involved for my taste.

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Dirk-B 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 17:41:53
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1180
From: Belgium

@cgutjahr

Hmm, ok, but i don't see it like that.

If i would donate or buy a full version it would cost me maybe 200 $.

So if i sponsor now 200 $ and then deside to stop the sponsoring,
it would be the same thing, just that i helped Jamie out "now".

Btw. i do not think he wil gather 3000 $ a month in this tiny community.


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MigthyMax 
Re: Announcing a new project proposal: FREEAVD !!!
Posted on 26-Aug-2006 17:49:47
#20 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Jul-2004
Posts: 53
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Well, AmiDevCpp ist not the only solution to develop programs for AOS4 on other hardware.
There is a eclipse plugin amigatd in combination with cross compilers is a pratical
solution.

But to be able to use it you need to take the version from the repository, or email me in PM to aks for a jared version (Is still in developement).

regards

Max

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